Guns of August 1.2 Public Beta 5 Uploaded!

[SMK-at-work]

You'll take more than 2 hits if he uptechs his artillery (or he'll take more than 2 if you do) - Tech 4 artillery still puts plenty of hurt on tech 4 trenches.

[2gaulle]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

AFAIK activated cavalry have never been able to enter enemy territory - they have always required to be stacked with infantry haven't they?

perhaps but that dosn't sound logical

The 2nd one only applies to troops that are in supply - so they have to be in a town. There's nothing particularly wrong with that IMO - a hex is a big area, and not all beseiged forces surrendered - some held out for a long time - eg Premzyl was beseiged for 18 days in 1914 without surrendering, and was eventually relieved.

It fell only after a seige of 133 days - 4 1/2 months from late 1914 until March 1915. At the end 110,000 men surrendered.

If you want to force a surrender you need to actually attack.

Unfortunatly I besiege force since more than 3 months, in fact 2 strategic phase.

the problem is more munition than anything, unfortunatly attack have no effect.

what's is definitively not possible is refit

[Joel Rauber]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

You'll take more than 2 hits if he uptechs his artillery (or he'll take more than 2 if you do) - Tech 4 artillery still puts plenty of hurt on tech 4 trenches.

IMO, we need more experience with the new tweaks before rendering judgement. so far V1.2 b5 has lot better feel to it than V1.1. So regardless of additional needs I see it as a real improvement.

[FrankHunter]

Yes, cavalry have to be stacked with infantry in order to enter enemy hexes. 

Units out of supply (can't trace to a friendly city) lose readiness each turn until it reaches 1.  After that they start losing actual combat strength.

[jimwinsor]

Are units surrounded in a friendly home city considered out of supply?

[FrankHunter]

Cities have supply values.  If a city can't trace a supply line to the capital that number is halved.  Also, if the nation itself is short of food the city numbers are reduced by the same percentage that the nation is short of food.

Cities in the east tend to have lower supply values than cities in the west.

If you're in a pocket but there's a friendly city in the same pocket you're going to get at least some supply from that city depending on the distance from that city and the intervening terrain.  If you're actually stacked right on top of the city you're probably fine.

The supply value of the city should be being downgraded each turn it can't trace a supply line.  I will check to make sure that of that.

[FrankHunter]

One thing I should have mentioned, although units can receive supply from an isolated city, HQs cannot be given offensive points so supply from a friendly isolated city helps only in defence.

[SMK-at-work]

That's excellent (assuming it's working properly [;)]) - sounds like a much better system than almost every other strat level 20th century game in the world!!

[2gaulle]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Cities have supply values. If a city can't trace a supply line to the capital that number is halved. Also, if the nation itself is short of food the city numbers are reduced by the same percentage that the nation is short of food.

Cities in the east tend to have lower supply values than cities in the west.

If you're in a pocket but there's a friendly city in the same pocket you're going to get at least some supply from that city depending on the distance from that city and the intervening terrain. If you're actually stacked right on top of the city you're probably fine.

The supply value of the city should be being downgraded each turn it can't trace a supply line. I will check to make sure that of that.

look fine but the bigger problem is with refit

[FrankHunter]

Is there a problem with refit?

[jimwinsor]

I guess what 2gaulle is saying is you should not be able Refit surrounded units back to full strength...maybe that should require a path to the capital? Or at least a factory city?

[HannoMeier]

Regarding a Version 1.2:

Is it possible to show some numbers for the economics on the map? (especially as there is sometimes industry and raw materials combined in a hex and sometime more than 1 point of each)

E.G. Paris: 3 I(ndustry), 1 R(aw Material), 0 F(ood)

(the numbers are arbitrarily chosen)

This will help to understand / plan for the economic situation

Regards, Hanno

[SMK-at-work]

Yes that's what he is saying.
 
I don't really have a problem with refit in surrounded cities as long as the supply state of the city is slowly degrading.
 
There are vast numbers of soldiers around that are not represented by the units in the game - fort garrisons for example.  these troops can be drafted into front line units, and if the quality of the city is slowly degrading then the readiness of any units in it will recover more slowly after attacks and bombardments, so the defenders of the hex will get weaker and weaker.
 
To me the question is whether the supply state of the city degrades fast enough?
 
Premzyl held out for 4 months - 2 strategic turns - when it surrendered it had 110,000 men instead of jsut the 30,000 men of the garrison.  It had been starved and attacked and bombarded - but perhaps the last 2 months had jsut been starved as the initial attacks by the Russians had cost tens of thousands of casualties.  So 2-3 strat turns shuold probably be about the limit.

[SMK-at-work]

Looking around a few websites - it seems to me that in fact Premzyl was rather unfortunate to be taken by the Rusians at all.  Contemporary expectations were that it would have 3 years provisions - or 1 year with its triple sized-garrison - however profligate consumption by the AH officer and upper classes seems to have caused that to be not achieved.
 
When it surrendered it had plenty of ammunition and guns left.
 
There are pages on it at http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Przemysl/Przemysl_00.htm and http://www.geocities.com/veldes1/kusmanek.html

[FrankHunter]

Refit is allowed as long as the supply is good and that can only occur if there's a friendly city within the pocket   The ability of that city to supply the pocket is halved each turn.  Once its below 10% refits are not allowed.