Tiptoe through the Tulips

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Capt. Pixel
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Tucson, AZ

Tiptoe through the Tulips

Post by Capt. Pixel »

Tips for Laying Minefields and Other Obstacles.

There are three items that may be placed in a hex to impede movement; Mines, AT Obstacles and Wire. All may be initially deployed, and mines may be hastily deployed by Engineer units during the battle.

We all know that. What you might not be aware of, though, is that Engineers adding mines to hexes that already contain any of these three obstacles are going to yield some predictable, but perhaps, unexpected results.

Here's what happens:

The program has a counter for the number of 'obstacles in the hex (N) and a counter for the types of obstacles included (T).

(disclaimer: Please note here that I am not a developer, nor have I actually seen the software code for this game. These observations are just that, and no more. End disclaimer)

Regardless of how many mines or AT obstacles you place in a hex, if there are more than one Type, the Number of obstacles is divided evenly among the types present. (ie. N/T)

Some examples:
During Deployment -

Lay 10 Mines, then lay 10 AT obstacles in the same hex. When you inquire the hex you see: "10 mines, 10 AT".

Now delete 10 mines (or 10 AT obstacles - it makes no difference).
When you inquire the hex you'll see: "5 mines, 5 AT".

During the Battle -

Set your Engineer adjacent to a predeployed AT obstacle (10 each). Change the Engineers' orders to "Will place mines...", and aim him towards the AT populated hex.

Now normally the Engineer will place 1 or 2 mines in the adjacent hex. But NOT if there's already another Type of obstacle present.

Inquire the hex now and you'll read: "5 mines, 5 AT" (it may read 6 of each if your Engineer laid 2 mines that turn).

Number of obstacles: 11 (or 12)
Types of obstacles: 2 (mines and AT)

Number of each type = N/T = 11/2 = 5 each (FRD)

This works equally well with Wire, and using all three types in a hex.

Consider:

Deploy 10 each of Mines, AT Obstacles and Wire. Now delete 20 points from the hex. An inquiry of the hex will read: 3 Mines, 3 AT, 3 Wire" (10/3). All that for only the cost of 10 "mine points".

Deploy 10 each of AT obstacles and Wire (no mines). Place Engineers adjacent to those hexes and lay mines. The first mine placed will change the hex to "7 Mines, 7 AT, 7 wire" (21/3).

I believe the same results occur when a unit (or artillery) is removing mines and obstacles. I'm not sure if certain task specific units (Sherman Flail, for instance) would still have the capability of stripping out AT obstacles in addition to the Mines or Wire.

Since the obstacles decrease in parallel, all types will be present until the entire count is removed. In other words, that AT obstacle isn't going away for a long time. At least until the Mines and/or Wire are removed too.

Also be aware that minefields are visible to the opponent if they are mixed with either of the other two obstacles.

The quickest way to remove these nasty entanglements?
Any flamethrowing vehicle will rip right through a minefield in short order. ;)
"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson
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Bernie
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Re: Tiptoe through the Tulips

Post by Bernie »

Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
The quickest way to remove these nasty entanglements?
Any flamethrowing vehicle will rip right through a minefield in short order. ;)
I've yet to see this actually work. At least not against AI deployed mines.
What, me worry?
Capt. Pixel
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Tucson, AZ

Tulip Tidbits

Post by Capt. Pixel »

A few more goodies I checked on:

Mine clearing vehicles don't appear to be specific to particular types of obstacles. A Sherman Flail or KV-8s can remove an AT obstacle, for instance.

The Japanese SS Eng. Tank is a premier minefield buster.

She does suffer from slow speed, weak armor and limited ammo loadouts. But she can fire flamethrowers up to 5 times in one turn. Most other vehicles can only get off two shots per turn.

They are about as efficient as a platoon of Engineers concentrating on clearing a single hex. That is, 3 to 4 turns for a 60 point minefield (30 obstacles of various types). The Japanese tanks busted through each test minefield either first, second or third every time.

I tested several other FT vehicles by running tanks along the hex row spine against various combinations of obstacles totaling 60 points per hex row. These are the averaged results:

SS Eng. Tank: 3-4 turns
M4A1 Flame, Wasp I: 5-10 turns
Flammwagen/16: 8-12 turns
FlammPanzer III, OT-34, KV-8(s): 8-14 turns
One Engineer squad (UK, GE, US, SO): 13-14 turns

Results varied quite a bit in these little 'races'.
One lucky Wasp took First Place largely by getting to the minefield earlier than everybody else.
An OT-34 ran out of 'gas' with only one AT obstacle to go. :(
One KV-8 managed to dispatch 30 mines in 3 turns, and I was never able to repeat the feat. Not even close.

The combined Mine/AT obstacle/Wire hexes in those tests seemed to be more durable than spread-out hexes of individual types,(just Mines in one, Wire in another, etc.) The combined obstacles usually remained in place as long, or longer than the same number of individual types did. This also leaves all the evident types in place until the last obstacle is removed.

Using these vehicles you can probe and disable a minfield proactively rather than toddling up and waiting for some small amount to be removed by your dozers or engineers. :cool:

BTW, many earlier FT vehicles (pre'43) have smaller penetration values (150). They will not eliminate obstacles in this manner, nor will Infantry Flamethrowers, for the same reason. 200 seems to be the required penetration value for this tactic.
"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson
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Bernie
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Re: Tulip Tidbits

Post by Bernie »

Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
BTW, many earlier FT vehicles (pre'43) have smaller penetration values (150). They will not eliminate obstacles in this manner, nor will Infantry Flamethrowers, for the same reason. 200 seems to be the required penetration value for this tactic.
Ah! That's where I was goofing up when I tested the advice. :)

I used early FT units the first time, then Flammpanzer III's the second time (and gave up after 5 turns with no results).
What, me worry?
Capt. Pixel
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Tucson, AZ

Anyone Else?

Post by Capt. Pixel »

Has anyone else given this a try? I swear by this tactic when tackling a minefield, but Bernie's not getting similar results.

What's the consensus? :confused:
"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson
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