priority for strategic bombing?

[crsutton]

I have reached 1943 in my game as the Allies and the Japanese have left we with a strong foothold in China. I have a fair amount of bombers stationed there and am beginning to target Chinese cities under Japanese control. My question is what target deserves priority on my city attacks. Oil seems to be the obvious choice but there are very few oil centers in range However, about 8-10 cities with HI, resources, and manpower are in range. So far, I have been hitting HI. Is this the best target for me to concentrate on?

If not, what is the best target and why? When I get closer to the Japanese mainland and can send bombers there, which targets then make the most sense?

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I have reached 1943 in my game as the Allies and the Japanese have left we with a strong foothold in China. I have a fair amount of bombers stationed there and am beginning to target Chinese cities under Japanese control. My question is what target deserves priority on my city attacks. Oil seems to be the obvious choice but there are very few oil centers in range However, about 8-10 cities with HI, resources, and manpower are in range. So far, I have been hitting HI. Is this the best target for me to concentrate on?

If not, what is the best target and why? When I get closer to the Japanese mainland and can send bombers there, which targets then make the most sense?

Some Japanese players say RESOURCES are the secret Achilles heel of their economy... bomb them when you get the chance (esp if no oil around).

[Yakface]

OK - curretnly playing as the IJ in two CHS games,. One in which I have taken pretty much all of India.  Resources are no longer a weakness in the way they are if only the SRA is taken.  India has loads and very little oil.  If you are looking to damage the Japanese economy, forget it.  With most of India liberated from the British the Japanese eceonomy is going to have more resources and HI points than it knows what to do with (assuming your opponent is diligently transporting them away from India. 

The weakness is now one of local supply.  India can support a farily large population of units on it's own as the resources and HI there produce supplies.  Take local supply away and they have to be shipped in.  In a long winded way I'm saying it does not matter what you bomb (well, don't bomb manpower in india. it will have no effect on anything), but you are doing it with conquest in mind rather than just limiting Japans economy. 

As for the Japanese homeland - bombthe aircraft factories first and everything else second

[Speedysteve]

I guess it depends on the situation of each game. I have heard that HI, Oil, Resource and Aircraft Engine/plan factories are all important!
 
Examples:
 
1. India is taken = lots of extra resources. No real problem with them then.
 
2. Only SRA taken and oil production was severely damaged during capture = target what oil you can.
 
3. Aircraft losses have been very heavy = target plan production etc
 
In my game vs Faber I went for oil (to compound the fact I had sunk most of his Tankers), then HI and am now pounding everything in Japan.......HI is good since it is needed to make everthing.
 
My 2p.

[Yakface]

Oh bugger - A strong foothold in China......I read a strong foothold in India......hmmm resources like rtpasso says.

If Japan captures only the SRA then there is pretty much only enough resources for the HI and Manpower that Japan starts with.

[Ian R]

Bomb manpower, start fires, and they take out HI.... then bomb oil
 
It doesn't matter how many grounded planes there are.

[rockmedic109]

What about bombing as many different types as possible?  Try to burn up supplies in repairs?  Or will bombing supply production cause a greater loss of supplies?

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Bomb manpower, start fires, and they take out HI.... then bomb oil

It doesn't matter how many grounded planes there are.

My experience of Manpower bombing has been pretty unsuccessful. I tested this against Fabertong. Over the space of 2 weeks daylight bombing I had 300 B29's targetting Gumma's Manpower from Saipan. Sure they did not fly every day (due to weather) but over those 2 weeks of long missions the fires never rose above 18000. These fires did damage some of the facilities but I could've damaged more of those facilities by strategic bombign in the space of 7-10 days.

The issue I have found with Manpower bombing is this. It seems you need to drop an ever increasing number of bombs to make the fires rise. The problem is with constant bombing you'll get FEWER bombers in the air and hence less bombs = fewer fires.

My conclusion was that I will almost always go for Strategic Bimbing. I do think there is the potential to do good damage with Manpower bombing BUT I think you need 2-3 Size 7+ AF's in range of the target so you can mass bombers on all of these fields to stage the attacks to an ever increasing level.

[Honda]

I just don't have it in my heart to tell what allies could do to us Japs...I can only say I am sometimes surprised at what we can get away with only because the opponent doesn't have a clear economic strategic objetive...

[Nemo121]

Its all very simple and you only have to bear two things in mind:
 
1. Identify what he is shortest of. You can do this by conducting a rough count of production at all enemy bases OR you can just assume he is short of oil ( which is almost always the case ).
 
2. You get FAR more benefit by reducing his most critically weak economic component by 20% than by reducing the four components of his economy by 5% each ( manpower, resources, HI and oil ). If you hit 4 sectors for 5% each you are actually only reducing his production by 5%. If you hit one component for 20% you aren't going to be reducing his production by much BUT you will hasten the time to the total collapse of his war economy by 20%. This is the difference between ending the game in September 1946 and ending it in September 1945.
 
The maths and inter-relations are pretty complicated but the basic point is that if you disperse your effort you reduce output BUT you don't actually cause an economic collapse. What you REALLY want is to hit oil or resources such that you hasten the collapse of his war economy by 20%. Obviously you can choose a non-resource, non-oil target if you want to cause critical shortages in certain sectors of the economy such that you can create a military as opposed to an economic collapse ( but I tend to find that a bit wasteful ).
 
 
So, pick a target and hit it. Don't disperse your striking power. Hit one sector of his economy ( either oil or resources or HI or aircraft engines or airframes etc ) and only one sector of his economy and know how you intend to win ( economic collapse or military over-powering ) so that you choose the appropriate bombing strategy to further that end-goal.
 
 
Its really very simple once you have clarity of vision and sufficient focus to not be tempted into dispersing your effort.

[Honda]

Traitor...[:D]

[Nemo121]

LOL!!! I play both sides [:D]... plus I could actually put down exactly, step by step what to do to cripple Japan and we both know that while many would read it very few would actually overcome their innate play style and desire to dissipate their offensive by pursuing minor goals sufficiently to actually follow it. Knowing what to do is one thing, doing it another entirely [8D]

[castor troy]

As Allied you have so many bombers in 44 that it doesn´t matter what you target! [8|] EVERYTHING that get´s in range can be bombed to dust, as the oil/ressource/HI sites usually get in range one by one and not all at once....

[crsutton]

Hmmmm..... a lot of diversity of opinion here.
 
Well, it looks as if the most numerous thing in range for now is HI located in China, so that will get the attention of my limited bomber resources for now. Later, I am going to try and target oil but in Jan 1943, there is not much in range.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

LOL!!! I play both sides [:D]... plus I could actually put down exactly, step by step what to do to cripple Japan and we both know that while many would read it very few would actually overcome their innate play style and desire to dissipate their offensive by pursuing minor goals sufficiently to actually follow it. Knowing what to do is one thing, doing it another entirely [8D]

Well - i'd like to hear it... my game style isn't so rigid (yet) that it can't change [;)]

[VSWG]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

LOL!!! I play both sides [:D]... plus I could actually put down exactly, step by step what to do to cripple Japan and we both know that while many would read it very few would actually overcome their innate play style and desire to dissipate their offensive by pursuing minor goals sufficiently to actually follow it. Knowing what to do is one thing, doing it another entirely [8D]

Well - i'd like to hear it... my game style isn't so rigid (yet) that it can't change [;)]

Yeah, me too...

[ChezDaJez]

Yes, resources it is. Resources make supply. Without supply nothing gets built and troops on far flung islands eventually begin to starve. And the impact of their loss is felt faster.

One thing to remember... this is strategic bombing not tactical. Strategic bombing can take months before your opponent begins to feel the pinch. If he has a decent level of HI and supply in the pool he can continue building for quite some time.

You just can't hit a strategic target once then leave it alone. It can be repaired so you need to revisit occasionally. By spreading your targets around it becomes more difficult for the Japanese player to defend plus he must expend more supply to effect repairs.

IRL oil was the biggee and the lack of it late war was directly responsible for limiting offensive, defensive and training decisions by the Japanese. Unfortunately, oil is not as big a factor in the game and most players make sure to transport as much of it to the home islands as they can before the allies get in range.

Chez

[String]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

Yes, resources it is. Resources make supply. Without supply nothing gets built and troops on far flung islands eventually begin to starve. And the impact of their loss is felt faster.

One thing to remember... this is strategic bombing not tactical. Strategic bombing can take months before your opponent begins to feel the pinch. If he has a decent level of HI and supply in the pool he can continue building for quite some time.

You just can't hit a strategic target once then leave it alone. It can be repaired so you need to revisit occasionally. By spreading your targets around it becomes more difficult for the Japanese player to defend plus he must expend more supply to effect repairs.

IRL oil was the biggee and the lack of it late war was directly responsible for limiting offensive, defensive and training decisions by the Japanese. Unfortunately, oil is not as big a factor in the game and most players make sure to transport as much of it to the home islands as they can before the allies get in range.

Chez

Well, tbh, in stock, Oil is THE bottleneck. Can't expand HI beyond 15k without capturing Australia or India. Also, while Oil might be plentiful, transporting the oil AND the necessary fuel to where it's needed can be tricky. Having 100k fuel at truk, for example, is nowhere near enough, but keeping it above that puts a severe strain on your tanker fleet.

[Lecivius]

How would one reduce this inventory?
 
I'm playing a full campaign as Allies against the AI, stock with 1.806.  I'm in January 1944, I have Toyahara (sp) as a SAC base bombing the north third of Japan with @150 4E bombers with P38 escort, I have captured the CenPac through the Mariana, Ulithi, Yap, Formosa, the PI,  the northern half of Borneo, Control Asia from the middle of China west, and I have a large carrier TF circling Japan blowing anything larger than a skiff out of the water    I loaded the Japanese side just to see if I should shut down the game, or if my strategy of deprivation is causing havoc ( a strategy I was hoping to use in a PBEM since the Home Islands are so hard to take), and while I can find exactly 42 cargo type ships still in existance, I can find no sign of shortage either in the home islands, Truk ( Bypassed in April 1 1943) Siapan (bypassed Nov '43) , Palau (now under invasion), Java or the eastern China armies.
 
I'm curious what avenue I should have taken for my strategy [&:]

[ChezDaJez]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

Yes, resources it is. Resources make supply. Without supply nothing gets built and troops on far flung islands eventually begin to starve. And the impact of their loss is felt faster.

One thing to remember... this is strategic bombing not tactical. Strategic bombing can take months before your opponent begins to feel the pinch. If he has a decent level of HI and supply in the pool he can continue building for quite some time.

You just can't hit a strategic target once then leave it alone. It can be repaired so you need to revisit occasionally. By spreading your targets around it becomes more difficult for the Japanese player to defend plus he must expend more supply to effect repairs.

IRL oil was the biggee and the lack of it late war was directly responsible for limiting offensive, defensive and training decisions by the Japanese. Unfortunately, oil is not as big a factor in the game and most players make sure to transport as much of it to the home islands as they can before the allies get in range.

Chez

Well, tbh, in stock, Oil is THE bottleneck. Can't expand HI beyond 15k without capturing Australia or India. Also, while Oil might be plentiful, transporting the oil AND the necessary fuel to where it's needed can be tricky. Having 100k fuel at truk, for example, is nowhere near enough, but keeping it above that puts a severe strain on your tanker fleet.

I fear losing resources far more than oil.

In my stock game, I haven't had any major issues transporting oil and keeping both the home islands supplied with oil and outlying bases with fuel providing sufficient tankers are available. The tankers are the bottleneck. If I am low on them, I use the tankers to transport oil and AKs to transport fuel. Transporting fuel is easier than transporting supplies.

I have had problems ensuring I have enough resources in the home islands. My experience has been that oil is more plentiful and generates quicker than does resources and with plenty of shipping its not a problem. I could be wrong but that is the way it seems to me.

As far as HI goes, I limit my economy expansion so I normally have built a large pool of HI by the end of 42... enough to last 6-9 months at current production levels. So I'm normally not concerned with Australia or India.

Chez