The B.S. Power of CD

[John 3rd]

This is a RANT!

In my game against Canoerebel (Dan), I invaded Pago-Pago a few days about. KNOWING there was a CD unit there, I did not fool around. The landing consisted of an entire Japanese Inf Div, Regiment of Engineers, Artillery Regiment and two small Base Forces. My opposition is a CD unit, FA Regiment, and small Base Force.

In the four days since landing, my two base forces as well as Artillery Regiment have been wiped out due to attrition and my other two units are at less then 50% strength.
Not to mention the probable loss of 10-15 AK/AP from THE SAME GUNS!

This means that a total of 5,000 troops have nearly wiped out 35,000 soldiers. Talk about CRAP... [:@][:@][:@]

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

This is a RANT!

In my game against Canoerebel (Dan), I invaded Pago-Pago a few days about. KNOWING there was a CD unit there, I did not fool around. The landing consisted of an entire Japanese Inf Div, Regiment of Engineers, Artillery Regiment and two small Base Forces. My opposition is a CD unit, FA Regiment, and small Base Force.

In the four days since landing, my two base forces as well as Artillery Regiment have been wiped out due to attrition and my other two units are at less then 50% strength.
Not to mention the probable loss of 10-15 AK/AP from THE SAME GUNS!

This means that a total of 5,000 troops have nearly wiped out 35,000 soldiers. Talk about CRAP... [:@][:@][:@]

John, any idea what unit it is? The marine CD battalions don't normally contain that much firepower. What level are the forts?

[Mynok]

What do you mean by "attrition"? Has he been assaulting you or bombarding you?

I don't know what type of FA regiment or CD it is. That would tell a lot of the story.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


What do you mean by "attrition"? Has he been assaulting you or bombarding you?

I don't know what type of FA regiment or CD it is. That would tell a lot of the story.

Most likely his opponent has a rgt or two of those nice long 155mm army guns there that also function as coastal artillery.

IIRC there are 36 of them in one unit? Put in a marine CD Bn and you have a nice amount of firepower to dish out at unloading AK's.

[John 3rd]

H ehas been bombarding me.  The units are a FA Regiment, the 7th Marine CD and a Base Force.  I just had 'attrited' out my Engineer Regiment and the Japanese Inf Div is down to 28% strength.  I have done NOTHING!  All he is doing is bombarding my troops...
 
We're now up to 3 AP and 2 SK with at least a dozen more about to go down.
 

[Canoerebel]

[:D]
 
The defense is the routine BF and CD that begin on the island, supplemented by the field artillery unit usually heading to Suva.
 
In abstract terms, this represents something totally unexpected happening - something the Japs couldn't foresee or prepare for - like perhaps a ship pilot steering the invasion convoy right into their own mine field (in real life, this happened to a US convoy nearing Iceland in 1942 - something like fifteen ships went down in 15 minutes); or a lucky shell hitting a magazine causing a massive explosion that decimated a convoy because the other ships were too close.  No, there were no Jap mines at Pago Pago and the combat replay didn't suggest anything of the sort happened, but rather it's the game's way of abstracting in the sort of wildly improbable and calamitous event that happens in war despite "the best laid plans..."

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


What do you mean by "attrition"? Has he been assaulting you or bombarding you?

I don't know what type of FA regiment or CD it is. That would tell a lot of the story.

There aren't really any large mobile allied cd units. If it's coastal art there's lots of guns to shoot at ships, but they should be easily over run with infantry. If its a defense bn they won't do much damage to ships.

Sounds like something else is going on. I wonder what the supply situation is.

[John 3rd]

I have some supply.  Don't know about Dan.
 
Cannot attack with the Division.  From the moment it landed, it has been so disrupted nothing can occur.
 

[Gen.Hoepner]

I guess just bad dice and roll...sometimes it happens to land and to get mauled by CD units...sometimes you overrun them easily

[Cathartes]

What was your AV?  What was the total AV of your opponent, AND what was his fort level?  Did you naval bombard first?

You were assaulting an atoll which is doubly difficult to begin with. If the defensive fort level was high, and he had some AV behind it, one division with an engineer and arty is not full commitment. Did you have a lot of surface naval support?  You need to pound that atoll with big naval guns--repeatedly, and then land, and then continue to bombard.  Without some BB/CA support you are just throwing your APs/AKs to the slaughter and adding critical disruption to your assaulting force.

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

H ehas been bombarding me. The units are a FA Regiment, the 7th Marine CD and a Base Force. I just had 'attrited' out my Engineer Regiment and the Japanese Inf Div is down to 28% strength. I have done NOTHING! All he is doing is bombarding my troops...

We're now up to 3 AP and 2 SK with at least a dozen more about to go down.

Great googly moogly!!! It's four days later and you're STILL unloading?!?!? [X(] [X(] [X(] [X(] [X(]

That's your problem right there. If he does have those 155mm guns, it's no wonder you're getting sunk like paper ducks in a hurricane. You should have been totally unloaded the FIRST day, after no more than two phases.

[John 3rd]

No--I unloaded over the first two days and was so disrupted by the CD Fire, I couldn't organize an attack.  It was on the 3rd day that I lost the first group of units due to attrition and the 5th day that I lost the engineering regiment.  The 56th ID is hanging on by its finger nails.  I have a China Brigade nearby that I could land but am--frankly--scared to death to try landing them...
 

[Mynok]

Two days is still too long to be unloading. You also needed to bring a BB TF to bombard those puppies while you were unloading.

[Canoerebel]

LOL.  Two days is too long to unload an invasion force that includes a division?  Say what? 
 
I can't account for John's bad luck and I'm the lucky defender that's benefitting.  I have 2 forts, I am supplied, and my AV isn't much.  I think what got my lucky roll started was that for some reason my shore guns ate his invasion ships alive.  Maybe just lucky rolls.
 
Hey, John, what's a China brigade?

[wdolson]

Atoll combat won't last more than a few days.  If the invading force doesn't take ground quickly, they will die of attrition very quickly.  It's a win or die situation.  What it sounds like is that your invading division got mauled coming ashore and became very disrupted.  Once ashore, they didn't have the ability to take ground.  Now they are being whittled away on a tiny beachhead.

Atoll combat can turn on you.  I lost the 3rd Marine Raider batalion to a small defending force that had been isolated and out of supply for months.  They couldn't get the upper hand quickly enough and they were wiped out.  The 1st and 2nd were also in the invasion and they beat the defenders the next day.  In that case, there wasn't even much in the way of coastal defense.  I think there were only a couple of shots upon landing.

Bill

[Cathartes]

I can't account for John's bad luck and I'm the lucky defender that's benefitting.  I have 2 forts, I am supplied, and my AV isn't much.  I think what got my lucky roll started was that for some reason my shore guns ate his invasion ships alive.  Maybe just lucky rolls.

I think it had less to do with luck and more to due with the fact that your opponent did not bring naval bombard and did not have enough carrying capacity to unload completely in one turn.  You can rely on him not to make the same mistake twice. 

[Gen.Hoepner]

Always bring with your invasion TF some DDs and possibly some CL/CAs if you do not have any Bombardment TF close hands. Unload your AK/APs under the 155mm fire is asking for a massacre

[John 3rd]

Yaaa...I remember how those 155MM did so well during the REAL war!  [:@][:@]
 
Dan--You KNOW perfectly well what a China Brigade is!  These guys got tired of being in smelly. cold China and changed their uniforms for Tropical attire!
 

[spence]

If its a defense bn they won't do much damage to ships.

Yaaa...I remember how those 155MM did so well during the REAL war!

Rear Admiral Kajioka would likely take exception to the first statement and be ecstatic that he didn't face the later instead.

[Mynok]

Um...we *STILL* use the 155mm gun. One of the finest on the planet.