Any enhancements to the AI?

[Longstreet_slith]

Have any enhancements been made to the AI in the Battlground series? I loved these games, but if I remember correctly, the AI was not so good and these games were really PBEM only. [:(]

Longstreet

[1NWCG]

No they didn't, just made it Vista Compatiable, added 32-bit engine and I think scenario editor.  The A/I in any games of this type are bad no matter who makes it sadly....

[sullafelix]

I want to buy both packages but I'm wary. I have all of these games already, but I would like to run them on vista. Is this new release going to be an ongoing development as in patches or is the compilation " what you see is what you get "? The released blurbs do state that the AI was worked on by Mr. Tiller. I guess what I'm looking for in plainer language is what exactly I'd be purchasing? Thanks.

[Erik Rutins]

We do not plan on ongoing development, these are basically intended as an affordable and comprehensive collection of the Battleground titles. In addition to including all previous updates from TalonSoft (and the unofficial ones from John Tiller), these are also updated to work on Vista, which the old ones don't, so these should have a substantially longer lifespan. The AI was looked at, but as I understand it any improvements there were minor.

[duckenf]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We do not plan on ongoing development, these are basically intended as an affordable and comprehensive collection of the Battleground titles. In addition to including all previous updates from TalonSoft (and the unofficial ones from John Tiller), these are also updated to work on Vista, which the old ones don't, so these should have a substantially longer lifespan. The AI was looked at, but as I understand it any improvements there were minor.

OK, I have all the old BG games (Nappy and ACW), and a bunch of the HPS ACW titles as well. Yes, I like the Tiller games, so sue me. I'd be interested in buying this, but as best I can see, it's just been made Vista compatible, right? So this is for people like Tiller stuff or are interested in the topic but don't already have the BG series -- and also for those afflicted with Vista? If that's the case, I guess I'd wait to get it until I get a machine with Vista -- but with the dollar worth more as scrap paper than a currency compared to the all-conquering British pound, maybe I should get it now....

[John 3rd]

Are there any real improvements to the games?  I understand that they have been updated to handle the newer operating systems so that is good.  Is there much, if anything, else? 

A couple of us from the WitP Forum are thinking about getting the Civil War series for a pleasant and fairly quick distraction from the Grand Strategy of the Pacific.

[Erik Rutins]

As I posted earlier, we tried to work with some community members to add some new content, but that fell apart (twice) leading to the various delays in releasing these titles. The only substantial change is the integration of all official and unofficial updates and the new update that adds Vista compatibility.

These games play and look just like the originals, but they will work on the OS you'll all likely be running in three years, so they're a good archival copy. We also updated the games to require less space, so each compilation fits on one CD.

Basically, if you like the BG games and want a copy to last you for many years, this is the one to get. If you never tried the BG games but wanted to, this is definitely the compilation to get. There's a lot of historical wargaming value here.

Regards,

- Erik

[duckenf]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

If you never tried the BG games but wanted to, this is definitely the compilation to get. There's a lot of historical wargaming value here.

Regards,

- Erik

I'd agree with that 100%. It's a great value game. If you don't have it already it's worth buying; if you have Vista ditto. I'm sure I'll make my purchase when I get Vista (long may that be delayed though -- but that's a microsoft issue not Matrix)

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: 1NWCG

No they didn't, just made it Vista Compatiable, added 32-bit engine and I think scenario editor.  The A/I in any games of this type are bad no matter who makes it sadly....

Spot on. Definitely nothing done to the AI.

Tiller Software has made it clear that the living ACW and Nap series are the HPS games. They offer massive leaps in terms of scenario coverage and the on-map combat results/option for non-phased play are their biggest enhancements to the designs. Then there's the campain play. Not to mention the broader spread of campaign subject matter.

The 2d graphics and maps in the HPS games are also leaps above the BG series. Further HPS's Waterloo is a massive expansion of Prelude to Waterloo + Waterloo itself. Ditto Gettysburg. Massively different geographical games.

The Talonsoft Battleground games which John pioneered offer much more beautiful 3d map and unit graphics. Although I always found the Prelude to Waterloo unit sizes way too small for my eyes. IIRC John was unable to secure the rights to this graphics set on Talonsoft's demise. Hence HPS runs with a different 3d look.

But that's it. Players are locked in phased-play.

I've noticed the AI in the HPS ACW titles very good in the smaller scenarios. Otherwise PBEM and solo hotseat offer the best gaming regardless of series IMHO.

[berto]

The Talonsoft Battleground games which John pioneered offer much more beautiful 3d map and unit graphics... IIRC John was unable to secure the rights to this graphics set on Talonsoft's demise. Hence HPS runs with a different 3d look.

It's a d*** shame then that HPS doesn't contract a graphics designer to bring their graphics set back up to BGS snuff. Poor 3D graphics are the HPS series' greatest weakness, IMO.

Or does HPS reason: Why bother? Just let the modder community upgrade the graphics for free.

[Krec]

You hit the nail on the head. i have never bought a HPS Tiller game and probably wont untill the graphic are cleaned up. [&:] The games are said to play good but the graphics are very poor. [:-] I believe if the games looked better they would sell better. Heck even CWG2 had decent graphics. Just give me clean easy see stuff and i am happy. [8D]

[berto]

If you didn't already, you should know that user modded graphics sets are available to fix HPS' atrociously bad 3D graphics.

Check out

ACW Campaign Games Design Center

I won't play HPS Civil War games without the user modded 3D graphics fixes!

[keeferon01]

ORIGINAL: Krec

You hit the nail on the head. i have never bought a HPS Tiller game and probably wont untill the graphic are cleaned up. [&:] The games are said to play good but the graphics are very poor. [:-] I believe if the games looked better they would sell better. Heck even CWG2 had decent graphics. Just give me clean easy see stuff and i am happy. [8D]

I think you chaps are missing the point, I personally have every hps title been a hps fan since it started really, your paying for the extensively researched OOB's and damn fine scenario builds to be honest, graphics and music are not why you are playing these titles

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: Krec

You hit the nail on the head. i have never bought a HPS Tiller game and probably wont untill the graphic are cleaned up...

Whilst I know you're referring to the 3D graphics, remember the HPS 2D graphics are an intended massive improvement over the Battleground games. Hexes are bigger, terrain better looking and unit icons bigger too. IMO these games have 2d play in mind.

Also I was unimpressed with the HPS Napoleonic 2d icons so re-did them. These are now included in the Volcano Man HPS graphics packs found HERE

[berto]

I think you chaps are missing the point, I personally have every hps title been a hps fan since it started really, your paying for the extensively researched OOB's and damn fine scenario builds to be honest, graphics and music are not why you are playing these titles.

And I suppose you like your French haute cuisine served on paper plates and your fine wine drunk from dixie cups? Forget about the larger experience, it's all just about the food isn't it? Heck, what difference would it make if you just mash it all together and run it through a blender? It's just as nutritious, right?

I'll not play a game with atrociously bad graphics for the same reason I won't listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony performed by a grade school marching kazoo band.

Who are you to dictate our tastes in fine games, to suggest the "real" reasons why we should enjoy playing them? [:-]

[ravinhood]

There's nothing wrong with the graphics in HPS or the BG series of games and anyone who has issues with the graphics in these two series of games just has graphicsbuttitus. They don't care about the game all they care about is how does it look. These are your total world yahoos and that's what they should go back and play with its sorry gameplay and AI. I'd rather have a game that is good in overall gameplay with poor or average graphics than one with great graphics and nothing else. I mean look at the graphics of that new game AT, it's nothing state of the are for sure, but, just look at the fanfare about it. Which proves it's better to have a better game and just average graphics.
 
This is a good deal to those that don't already own the BG series or even those that do and don't like the hassle of having to put everything together to get them to work on XP. I run a dual boot system with WIN98se and XP so I don't really have that issue and don't need the upgrades. But, for $29.99 or $24.99 if you buy both series you are getting a good deal for each bundle. Less than $50 for all those games (if you don't already own them) is really a great deal just like the Campaign series they recently released. Still makes me wonder why they charge so much for the Close Combat series remake though they should have put all of them into a package deal as well for $29.99 or $39.99 max.

[freder]

ORIGINAL: berto
I won't listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony performed by a grade school marching kazoo band.

hahaha that's a nice comparison, might be interesting though.
Like the "Switched on Bach" from the 70's. Bach on moog-synthesizer, if I remember correctly.

[Leopejo]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

There's nothing wrong with the graphics in HPS or the BG series of games and anyone who has issues with the graphics in these two series of games just has graphicsbuttitus. They don't care about the game all they care about is how does it look.

A troll or what? BG games are beautiful, HPS graphics, presentations, manuals are sloppy.

[Leopejo]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Whilst I know you're referring to the 3D graphics, remember the HPS 2D graphics are an intended massive improvement over the Battleground games. Hexes are bigger, terrain better looking and unit icons bigger too.

What are you talking about? In napoleonic games at least this is not so. Lack of a 2D Zoom In View is one of my main concerns, I have to go to the (horrible) 3D graphics to be able to see more close action.

[keeferon01]

ORIGINAL: berto

I think you chaps are missing the point, I personally have every hps title been a hps fan since it started really, your paying for the extensively researched OOB's and damn fine scenario builds to be honest, graphics and music are not why you are playing these titles.

And I suppose you like your French haute cuisine served on paper plates and your fine wine drunk from dixie cups? Forget about the larger experience, it's all just about the food isn't it? Heck, what difference would it make if you just mash it all together and run it through a blender? It's just as nutritious, right?

I'll not play a game with atrociously bad graphics for the same reason I won't listen to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony performed by a grade school marching kazoo band.



Who are you to dictate our tastes in fine games, to suggest the "real" reasons why we should enjoy playing them? [:-]

then what the hell are you doing on these forums then, if you don't like the game go away.