Why I am not interested...

[davmarksman]

a good tactic that works is be very cautious. Use the move comand and when you make contact bring several units to fire on that postion. if you cant do that pull back. Apart from that...

smoke, bombard and get all your squads shooting. The unit which made contact usually get high casualities but you might just suppress them and save a few men.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

To make infantry survive in CC:

Use:
- cover
- supressing fire (attack and fire teams)
- even more surpressing fire
- smoke
- outflank tactics

If you run into an enemy (even worse an ambushing enemy) without any of the above your are toast in CC [;)]

The way to make infantry survive in CC is to limit the number of AFV, most importantly ones with large caliber weapons.

IMO, CC2 was the best of the series because of its campaign and its limitation on how many slots were open for vehicles.

CC3 failed on both counts.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[jomni]

Well I'm "glad" to tell you that in CCMT, there is no such thing as a super AFV.  Even my M1 tank gets destroyed pretty quickly by an unknown (unspotted) enemy.  Most probably AT infantry.  AT lethality of infantry in CCMT is very effective.

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

You know, I had a big post written about how I'm no n00b blah blah blah, so I thought I would fire it up and try again....

So this is how my first scenario went in CoI...

3 infantry units, 2 machinegun units, 1 HMG unit, 1 Stug III and a mortar unit and Group Leader

Stug III on the brow of the hill to cover same with HMG mortar unit behind hill and set to lay smoke in front of hut on west of river (there is a AT gun in there).

It all kicks off.

HMG opens up on infantry crawling on north west of river
Stug II set to fire on building where suspected gun is
1 MG unit in building to far west to provide supressing fire where AT gun is.

So I have Stug III and 1 MG unit providing supressing fire on AT and smoke being laid

I sneak 2 infantry units up to building and when I'm within 30 yards and then I set to move fast to close on the building
They are wiped out as soon as they stand up, despite the HMG supressing fire...despite the Stug III supressing fire and despite the 2 MG units I now have opening up on the enemy

In short, as soon as my unito show their heads, they are totalled. I use smoke and it's useless. Unless the smoke is DIRECTLY between the unit and the enemy, they will be opened up on. It is truly useless.

Smoke form your troops is just as back because as soon as they stand up to launch smoke, they are totalled.

I'd like to hear from anyone esle who thinks it's doable...because I've played this mission 3 times now and at the most I have taken 1 control point.

I know this sounds like it should be in the CoI forum, but I wanted to see whether this was different or not.

How long did you lay down suppressing fire?

Generally you'll have to do it for a while. Plus, it's good to attack from multiple directions on the same target. Additionally, when you use move fast, the guys try to assault the target and won't shoot on the way in.

My suggestion is to use suppressing fire for about 2 - 5 game minutes before you move anyone. The next think you want to do is move 1 unit at a time part way to the building. When it reaches its destination part way to the building, then set that unit on indirect fire to the building.

Move your next unit the same distance towards the building. Once there, set it to suppressing fire.

Move your last unit and set it to suppressing fire.

All of these moves should take place outside of a firing lane from either other buildings or trenches etc if possible.

Now go back to the first unit being moved, bring it to within 15-20 meters of the building, then make it fire on the building. At about the same time, do this with your second unit as well. The second unit however, once it moves to the same distance as the first unit, should then be set to move fast up to the building after your first unit throws grenades in. Once that second unit reaches the very outer perimeter of the building, then change it to either a move order or a fire order.

Bring in the 3rd unit.

Usually using this tactic in some combination, taking into consideration distance to be run and the fire lanes of your opponent will allow you to make a successful assault.

Last thing, make sure you set either your 'bars' over the mens head to command or to cover. I usually set the bars to command and the outlines to cover. This way I know if my boys are in command range and also if they are in good cover. To check to see how far your command range is for your command unit(s), press the space bar and a ring will show up around the command unit(s). I would recommend bringing a command unit in with your assaulting unit.

Keep your assaulting men in command at all times or things will go bad quick more often than not.

cc3 is not much of an infantry game, but it can be done although it's more difficult than say cc1, 2, or 4.

My favorite of the series by far is/was cc1 since it had the best infantry survivability of the series and suppressing fire worked really well.

[JudgeDredd]

forget it

[Uncle_Joe]

Just so you know, Judge, you are not alone in your assessment.
 
Everyone's advice on 'suppression fire' and 'cover' etc aside, the combat modeling in CC is still very much more 'Hollywood' than reality IMO. My final straw was a defense scenario where all of my squads were in trenches. A German armored car (222) spots one squad and at 150m kills 1-2 men per burst at men in the trenches. Each shot guaranteed killing at least 1 of my men....
 
Add to that the fact that the game always degenerated into tank orgies and I soon lost interest. If you limit it to just soldiers or maybe a few AFVs, it can still be fun but the lethality still seems awfully high IMO.
 
Just thinking about how much more lethal modern weapon system would be makes me have almost zero interest in this title as well.

[JudgeDredd]

I think that's my point...lethality.

I kid you not. As soon as a squad shows their face, regardless of covering fire, suppressing fire or ditches, flanking manouvres, attacks from multiple sides.....regardless of all that...my squads die in  seconds (if not, then routed/surrendered) and this is on the easy setting.

Not good. And seeing as this is meant to be more lethal, I can only see it as another game to practice my frustration skills.

I had started this post in the vein hope of being persuaded otherwise, but I'm afraid there has been nothing here to do that. All I've had, really, is advice to use certain tactics that are, tbh, basic knowledge and are most definitely being implemented by me.

Man, if a Stug III, HMG, MG and mortar team firing on a building concealing an AT team for 3-5 minutes isn't enough to supress that AT team, then I give up...truly I do. Not to mention having two squads closing in from either side!!

[CSO_Sbufkle]

Heres a AAR for COI I made, youll have to excuse the code int he text, the settings on the site have to be fixed up to get rid of it.

http://www.closecombat.org/CSO/index.ph ... =24&page=1

I feel I was outgunned in this situation but came out on top. In day 2 I easily finished taking the map, I had effectively trapped the Germans from both sides around the bridge.


Like any game like this, the map is key. LOS is crititcal and sometimes the odds are agaisnt you. The AI in particular is easy to beat, but then again on some maps and some situations... itds damn hard no matter what! Its these tough times I actually enjoy playign the game.

[Andrew Williams]

and here is a n AAR H2H of the same area.

H2h AAR

[CSO_Sbufkle]

An AAR in a forum thread? How quaint!!

[Andrew Williams]

LOL

My Aston Martin DB5 may be old but she's still a thing of beauty.




edit: In fact, I may be old but.................

[Zap]

Judge,
I gained a victory in that scenario. I kept my troops on the hill where the StugIIi is located(lost my tank by the way). On the other side brought the infantry up to the hill. What happened is the Russians crossed the river I picked them off as they advanced. I Did not take one objective hex in the victory.

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I think that's my point...lethality.

I kid you not. As soon as a squad shows their face, regardless of covering fire, suppressing fire or ditches, flanking manouvres, attacks from multiple sides.....regardless of all that...my squads die in seconds (if not, then routed/surrendered) and this is on the easy setting.

Not good. And seeing as this is meant to be more lethal, I can only see it as another game to practice my frustration skills.

I had started this post in the vein hope of being persuaded otherwise, but I'm afraid there has been nothing here to do that. All I've had, really, is advice to use certain tactics that are, tbh, basic knowledge and are most definitely being implemented by me.

Man, if a Stug III, HMG, MG and mortar team firing on a building concealing an AT team for 3-5 minutes isn't enough to supress that AT team, then I give up...truly I do. Not to mention having two squads closing in from either side!!

I apologize for offering the tactics that work(ed) quite well for me. I should have known that you were using these tactics as they are 'basic knowledge'.

[JudgeDredd]

Reiryc

The reason I changed my post was because I realised

• That you were simply trying to be helpful
• I wasn't as clear as I though I was about the tactics I employed and, therefore, your sound advice was just that...sound

The fact that you got an email detailing what I posted was within seconds of me realising my post was out of order and I retracted the comment. I truly thought I had laid out clearly the tactics I had employed.

Perhaps a more appropriate response would've been to thank you, but I forgot my response would be sent, so I simply edited it. So sincere thanks for taking the time to post such a lengthy and time consuming post.

I apologise, and I would never try to dissuade anyone from posting helpful information pertaining to playing a game.