Invisible Saved Game Files??

[Veldor]

How come through the game my hundreds of saved game files are all visible in the Advanced Tactics\bin\savedgames directory, but when I look at that directory through Windows Vista Explorer it shows it as empty (Even when allowing for hidden and system files)?

How does one go about maintaining the directory and, more importantly, emailing someone else a PBEM game save file??

[Veldor]

Windows Vista Ultimate through Windows Explorer:

[Veldor]

Here you can see them all listed in game:

[JAMiAM]

Obviously Vista is finding the files somewhere when you load and save the game. Have you checked the default installation path? It looks like you might have changed from the default when you installed. It should be C:\Matrix Games\Advanced Tactics\bin\savedgames. Maybe that directory still exists and is where your games are? Alternately, when you load a saved game, look at the path that should be displayed by the explorer dialogue.

[JAMiAM]

Oops, cross-posted there. Did you try to use the Up one level button, to see where this saved games folder really resides?

[Veldor]

How do I change the default savedgames path under Vista for AT?

[Veldor]

Compare the screenshot below to the one above they are the same paths (machine names removed for security)

[Veldor]

Furthermore, if I try to cut the file from the AT load window and paste in elsewhere in windows explorer, it gives this error:
All the savedgames play just fine through AT though.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Veldor

How do I change the default savedgames path under Vista for AT?

I don't know if you can. What I was referring to was the path that you installed the game into. You changed it from the default C:\Matrix Games\Advanced Tactics\...directory to one that resides in C:\Program Files\Games\...

I don't use Vista, myself, but I've heard that Vista doesn't make it easy for users to change files in the Program Files directory. Try looking in your My Documents folder and see if there is a folder in there called "My Games". Your saved games may be in a sub-folder within there.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Veldor

How do I change the default savedgames path under Vista for AT?

I don't know if you can. What I was referring to was the path that you installed the game into. You changed it from the default C:\Matrix Games\Advanced Tactics\...directory to one that resides in C:\Program Files\Games\...

I don't use Vista, myself, but I've heard that Vista doesn't make it easy for users to change files in the Program Files directory. Try looking in your My Documents folder and see if there is a folder in there called "My Games". Your saved games may be in a sub-folder within there.

Again please look at the screenshots. They tell the whole story. In all cases I am using and looking at the same directory.

There is no issue with Program Files on Vista. In fact it is a Microsoft Requirement for the better part of a decade for all software developers to install into that path not their own made up one. You can't even be a developer partner with MS without adhering to that. And NO other software makers, game designers etc that I know of break this rule except Matrix. All other files and directories are fine, just not the savedgame folder. I have not experienced this problem with any other product including Matrix ones.

[JAMiAM]

Sorry...just grasping at a few straws here. This is the first time that I've seen this problem listed, and the things that are different from my setup are that you changed your default installation path, and are using Vista. Thus, my suggestions were investigating along those lines, and where Windows might drop things. Good luck.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Sorry...just grasping at a few straws here. This is the first time that I've seen this problem listed, and the things that are different from my setup are that you changed your default installation path, and are using Vista. Thus, my suggestions were investigating along those lines, and where Windows might drop things. Good luck.

I appreciate the help JAMiAM. I was hoping to see if Matrix would admit to already knowing about this (Hard for me to believe they still don't test their games thoroughly and to MS industry standards). But I don't want to take up anyone elses time as I was intending to play along for the Matrix response only. It might be useful to point out I have extensive knowledge on these sort of topics and am a highly paid technology consultant with almost two dozen different IT certifications for my day job. I do typically play more the end-user here because no one likes a know-it-all. However, I am sufficiently frustrated now that I cannot help but point out these things and try to call Matrix out.

The fact is here they are claiming a game runs on Vista when it really doesn't fully. A game should install to a path that is Vista Friendly, which would be something like C:\Program Files\Matrix Games\Advanced Tactics. And in fact it actually shouldn't even do that. It should make the proper program calls to determine where that directory actually is and what its called and then install under that. Then there are other calls for enduser data. A user could then change these paths if desired.

The fact is ANYONE out there should know how to do these BASIC BASIC things for Windows Vista Programming.

Yet I'm going to guess they haven't a clue, my saved game files are in Vista's Virtual Store where I cannot get access to them.

Had matrix adhered to even XP industry standards of installing to the Program Files directory, this would not be an issue for me as the programming problem would have been discovered even during the poorest of playtesting exercises. Therefore I have to pardon all Matrix Developers here and blame Matrix themselves as they are the ones who enforce the errant install directory policy (Though I'm amazed if not one of their developers has attended a Vista Programming course / read a Vista Programming Book etc. but hey I guess its only been out a whole year now!)

Get with the times Matrix! Adhere to industry standards or remove your statement about supporting Windows Vista on your games!

[Twotribes]

Other game makers DO in fact make their own directories. Not just Matrix, further there is no reason they shouldn't except for MS being lazy bastards and not wanting to support it.

In windows XP I have no trouble finding and starting games without them being in the Programs tree. They still show just fine under the command for programs in the start up window. Though if the game does not auto make a desktop short cut for me I make my own.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Other game makers DO in fact make their own directories. Not just Matrix, further there is no reason they shouldn't except for MS being lazy bastards and not wanting to support it.

In windows XP I have no trouble finding and starting games without them being in the Programs tree. They still show just fine under the command for programs in the start up window. Though if the game does not auto make a desktop short cut for me I make my own.

Hating Microsoft or calling them lazy bastards doesn't change industry standards. Creating standards is a responsible thing for a company like Microsoft to do as it leads to less problems with their Operating System and the software that installs on it. Please list a game maker of any notoriety that still makes their own directory by default under the root of the C-Drive. As I stated before it is against their rules and any contractual agreement with them/partnership/use of their logos etc. all require that you follow a few basic protocols and standards they set forth. Outside of that its still the standard.

No the irony here isn't that the game can't be found or started when not under the Programs tree, its that if you should elect to put it in the proper place yourself that it in fact does not fully work.

That should be laughable to anyone in the biz IMHO. Damned for following rules and knowing too much...

Also damned for assuming Vista support meant FULL vista support.

In the interim (while Matrix hopefully explores the truth of all that I've said above) I would like to ask the developer(s) to please allow the default savegame location to be changed. I can obviously manually switch directories each time I save, but aside from being of some annoyance and effort, should I forget even one time, I will lose access to the savegame file to email, have to reply the entire turn, and likely be flagged a cheater not just in game but in these forums.

[Vic]

Sory to hear about your troubles Veldor.
 
Anybody else with Vista reading this thread?

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Vic

Sory to hear about your troubles Veldor.

Anybody else with Vista reading this thread?

I guarantee you can replicate the exact issue easily with any Vista Machine by installing to any custom path under Program Files. Not that you have any reason to listen to me, but I would seriously recommend developing any future software using Vista (And therefore upgrade your current development machine to Vista as well ASAP).

Really, as I've said in other threads, you'll never learn the Vista issues if you don't live and breath Vista day and night. And we will all be running Vista either way eventually. [:D]

It would be nice to be able to edit the default save location (even if it has to be done outside the GUI) until such a time, if ever, the actual problem itself is fixed..

[Vic]

@Veldor,
 
I hear you. And if this is the worst Vista issue it aint that horrible, though admittidly very annoying. And i will buy a Vista machine next to my XP machine for my next release.
 
Reading you correctly it seems though that the location of the installation is the issue.
 
Could it be an option to reinstall the game? but then install it in the Program Files directory?
 
Kind regards,
Vic

[Erik Rutins]

Hey Veldor,

We'll check into this - as far as the installation path, yes Microsoft has recommended /Program Files for years, but using a different one has never been an issue (apparently until Vista). Frankly, we've found Vista to be annoying in more than a few respects, not the least of which are incompatibilities or bugs cause because Microsoft either left out something harmless that was in XP or just arbitrarily changed how they dealt with something. We're working to make sure we have full compatibility in the future.

We have one Vista test system which we check all our new releases on, we'll double check this issue there and resolve it together with Vic if we can.

Regards,

- Erik

[MrMox]

Isn't this just a case of File Virtualization? http://www.hanselman.com/blog/VistasShowCompatibilityFilesAndTheScrumptiousWonderThatIsFileVirtualization.aspx

@Veldor: Have you tried to click on "Compatibility Files" in Windows Explorer?

@MatrixGames: You may consider Vista to be annoying, buggy and incompatible but your customer base will be moving towards Vista - get used to it... [:)]

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: MrMox

...
@MatrixGames: You may consider Vista to be annoying, buggy and incompatible but your customer base will be moving towards Vista - get used to it... [:)]

I'm not moving to Vista until the bitter end and nothing "They" can do will speed that process up. Get used to it Vista sucks for gaming...[:'(]

Keep up the good work Matrix![&o]