The Evil Empire Option: Standard Merchant Ships

[DuckofTindalos]

The Mosquito was a very poor plane to use in the Pacific/CBI theatre. Several of them suffered catastrophic structural failures (wings and tails falling off due to glue problems) when they were first introduced into service in the CBI by the RAF.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Historiker

The US might built Carrier Replacements for British losses as well. So the British Carriers must be defined as US?!

Not sure what you have in mind here?

Do you think carriers respawn in RHS? They do not. Nor do cruisers. No replacement carriers at all. Instead - you get ALL the carriers - none left out for that purpose (six Essex are left out of stock and CHS).

My fault.

You might let the Anson class BB hull convert to a heavy armoured AAA Escort in 2/42. Perhaps 20-30 heavy guns and 100 or more light ones.

Good idea. This was sort of done - not so many guns - she served as a BBAA midwar.

[Historiker]

You are looking for allied reactions after the attack of the Evil Empire, right?
The rule is, the allies mustn't react before 12/41

Well, in this case they would propably think about the Ansons Class. What to do with the ship? I think there are some options:
1. Turn it back into a BB
2. turn it into a CV
3. turn it into a AA-Escort
4. turn it into a shore bombardement ship?

ad1: I guess this would take at least a year. There's much work to do (where the towers still on board and just the guns stripped of or where the whole towers already scrapped/used elsewhere?) and it will have to get back to britain

ad2: Even more work. How many planes could be taken with it? Inside the armour there isn't to much place and how big can the hangar be that might be put on the hull? But if it gets refitted this way without scrapping parts of its armour, I guess it'll be one of the most survivable carriers, no?

ad3: In this case, one might refit it after some month with many guns. Half a year later one might perhaps even remove it's bridge and mast. Together with the towers of the heavy artillery being removed, there'll be much place for guns. Later in war even on usual BBs the light AAA reached the 100 i.e. in case of the Yamato. So this BBAA might carry an enourmous amount of AAA

ad4: Use the deck to mount howitzers and rocket launchers on it with no armour or only shields. In this case many artillery with only little armour penetration can be mounted but it's artillery support for shore bombardments will be really great, no?


Just a few thoughts of what I would think about to do with a heavy armoured hull with a working engine but without guns.





About the Mosquito:
As the Mosquito is made of wood, there should be the possibility for a big production in the States even without lowering the production of any other plane, no?
When the Allies have the big need for more planes in the beginning, producing the Mosquito should be an option, no?
So why not enlarge the on map production of the Mosquito and add some US-Mosquito units?

[DuckofTindalos]

Anson class???

[Historiker]

I don't have RHS on my laptop - but there is a BB in western India without any heavy artillery and I think that's one from the Anson class.

[DuckofTindalos]

Ehm, no such thing... Unless Sid invented it...

[Historiker]

Then it's quite new, but in the last versions it's in it. I don't know whether it's in all versions, too - in EOS it is.

[Bliztk]

It`s the old BB Centurion, disguised as Anson, if you look at the ship it says Centurion Class, not KGV

[DuckofTindalos]

Oh... Okay, I suppose.

[msieving1]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

You are looking for allied reactions after the attack of the Evil Empire, right?
The rule is, the allies mustn't react before 12/41

Well, in this case they would propably think about the Ansons Class. What to do with the ship? I think there are some options:
1. Turn it back into a BB
2. turn it into a CV
3. turn it into a AA-Escort
4. turn it into a shore bombardement ship?

Historically, she was turned into a reef.[:)]

This is actually HMS Centurion, a WWI King George V class battleship, commissioned around 1910. She was converted to a target ship under the provisions of the Washington Naval Treaty, which meant that all guns, revolving parts of barbettes, and side and conning tower armor was removed. Later, she was turned into an AA training ship, so she had some light AA guns added. She was in most ways the British equivalent of USS Utah.

ad1: I guess this would take at least a year. There's much work to do (where the towers still on board and just the guns stripped of or where the whole towers already scrapped/used elsewhere?) and it will have to get back to britain

It would take far longer than a year, and in the end you have an obsolete battleship. Not a rational use of resources.

ad2: Even more work. How many planes could be taken with it? Inside the armour there isn't to much place and how big can the hangar be that might be put on the hull? But if it gets refitted this way without scrapping parts of its armour, I guess it'll be one of the most survivable carriers, no?

At best, you wind up with the equivalent of HMS Eagle. More likely, you end up with an expensive CVE. The armor had already been removed.

ad3: In this case, one might refit it after some month with many guns. Half a year later one might perhaps even remove it's bridge and mast. Together with the towers of the heavy artillery being removed, there'll be much place for guns. Later in war even on usual BBs the light AAA reached the 100 i.e. in case of the Yamato. So this BBAA might carry an enourmous amount of AAA

This is closest to how she was actually used, if you leave off the escort part. For most of 1942-1943, Centurion was a static AA battery at Suez. She did escort one convoy in the Mediterranean, but her old engines weren't going to stand up to much use.

ad4: Use the deck to mount howitzers and rocket launchers on it with no armour or only shields. In this case many artillery with only little armour penetration can be mounted but it's artillery support for shore bombardments will be really great, no?

Her best use in supporting shore operations would be how she was used at Normandy. She was sunk for a breakwater.

Just a few thoughts of what I would think about to do with a heavy armoured hull with a working engine but without guns.

Actually, an unarmored hull with barely working engines.

I'm really not sure why HMS Centurion is included in RHS. Giving her a speed of 22 knots is rather optimistic. I'm not sure what speed she could make in 1942, but 22 kts would be out of her reach when she was new. There was a proposal to sink her to block the harbor at Dakar in 1940 or 1941, but Admiral Cunningham rejected the idea because of her slow speed. In the game, her best use is probably to be withdrawn, thereby keeping a more functional battleship in the theater.

[DuckofTindalos]

Heh, yeah... 22 knots is obviously 100% impossible; same as with the R-class. They couldn't make their 21-knot "on paper" speed either.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Ehm, no such thing... Unless Sid invented it...

Actually - there was such a thing - and Sid did NOT invent it! Apparently Centurion had reasonably servicable engines, but was also disarmed under a treaty requirement. What to do? The REAL LIFE RN decided to make her a deception platform - and rigged her to look like HMS Anson - a KGV class battleship. When PTO erupts into war she really is in India - trying to make it appear the RN has more modern battleships there than it really did. She appears in this form in all flavors of RHS - because of couse she really was there in that form. The only big problem with the ship is that she ultimately left the theater - a problem with many vessels in the game on the Allied side - although the Allies can sometimes withdraw a British warship. IRL she later served as a AA defense vessel and a blockship - being finally expended as such at Normandy.

She will potentially available for conversion to a AA defense vessel in EEO from 7.787. Still working on details - and she must find a suitable place to refit of course. She lacks the speed to be considered for CV duty - although theoretically she could serve as a ultra large CVE - her engines are not in good enough shape for that. It also would require assets not available - the British are not sending extra stuff to PTO even in EEO - being fully committed to ETO operations.

This vessel is classified as a BB so it reports that way to the other side. It is named USS Anson so that the occasional reports to the enemy that name her will name her that way. She also uses KGV art - because that is what she looks like. But she has little protection and almost no armament - and that because it is how she was really fitted. But - no - Sid didn't invent it. For her story see Schlachtshiffe und Sclachtkreutzer (or its English translation Battleships and Battlecruisers). For a summary see the WWI volume of Conways. I didn't look but I assume the story is also in British Battleships.

[DuckofTindalos]

Well, I didn't know about the attempt to make her appear like the Anson, only that no such thing as an "Anson-class battleship" ever existed. Hence, I figured you'd invented it.

Note that this wasn't meant in a negative sense. If it had been, I'd have phrased it otherwise.

[el cid again]

Noted. And lots of attempts to be constructive noted. And absense of things negative noted. For the record. Now if we could only get Osama bin Laden to take this road...

[el cid again]

A potentially big deal is the transfer of German Seetakt surface search readar technology - but it is not at this time assigned to any units sooner than 1/44 - when Japanese Type 22 becomes available.

Less significant is the transfer of Freya Air Search radar - but it does give a 200,000 yard (100 nautical mile) system alternative to the Japanese.

[DuckofTindalos]

At the very best of circumstances. Maximum range was, for all radar types on all sides, a theoretical figure. What I've read suggests that the Freya had maybe half of her theoretical maximum range for practical purposes.

[el cid again]

As a radar technician - turned radar countermeasures technician - I have some problem with this concept.
As long as a target is in range, and no countermeasures prevent it from working (e.g. chaff or jamming),
radar is certain to detect that target virtually instantaneously in human time scale terms. It actually detects the target hundreds of times every second - and what uncertainty there is comes from factors like (a) is the radar working or not?
and (b) is the operator actually paying attention and understanding what he sees? On top of that there is a critical layer: will the captain listen to the operator - or have a clue what it means to hear this report? NONE of these factors are related to range.

Now range may be an issue for certain kinds of targets in certain conditions. A very tiny target may be hard to see in a high sea state for example. But - that excepted - any ship will be seen by a surface search radar at any reasonable range (the limit is really "where is the display set"???). I have seen islands on surface search radar at ranges of 75 nautical miles - not what one normally thinks of as surface search range - and not what the radars are rated for.

Aircraft are more problematical. Aircraft may not be detectable if they are "below the radar horizon" - and that is a function of range. [If there are nice mountains around - see San Carlos Water - that helps too] Further - a single, small aircraft at long range is harder to see than a large one - or better still a large formation of large planes. Nevertheless, the ranges given for WWII era radars assume the normal case is a single aircraft - and as long as it is not below the horizon they are conservative values. A plane BELOW the horizon may as well not be there in the sense that it cannot detect either. The only way to address this we have is the die rolls GG put in the code. I prefer a system that models this in detail - and if you ever play such a system with me - beware: I "think electronically" and can "see" radar envelopes in my head - and as a specialist in defending targets I find it easy to spot the ways targets are vulnerable. But such considerations are beyond this system.

As usual - WITP has a very simple model that works remarkably well. As usual, RHS has diligently worked the radar subject with extensive research and we are using very good range data.

[Dili]

You have Mammut with 320km range first phased-array radar to go into production,which essentially consisted of 16 Freyas, linked together in a giant array with 192 dipoles; 20 were made starting from 1942.
 
Freyas had the advantage of being mobile.
There is also Wurzburg.
 
In WITM i am putting Freyas for Germans, SRC 270 for USA and AMES 5/6 for British. Eventually i'll put some British fixed Chain Home Low too if it had performance advantage that can be simulated by the game.

[el cid again]

I looked at Mammut - but it offers no advantages in game terms to the Japanese Army radars used in RHS - the Tachikawa series. Game radar is very primitive - and mainly exists as a range detection concept. Also - Mammut is later in time - while Tachikawa radars of the earliest series start the PTO game. The strange thing about the Tachikawas is they ALWAYS have the same range - they just get smaller - and possible to mount in more places. So the whole series is represented by one device.

I looked at all German radars, but found no meaningful additions we can use. Remember - there are almost no radar slots - and so we cannot add radar devices - only substitute them. We did manage to pick up one radar - an Allied one can be used by the Japanese now - but so far nothing has been assigned it. In fact, I have not assigned any Seetakt earlier to anything either than the Type 22 (January 1944). But I will at some point do a few.

These radar changes ONLY apply to EEO - of course.

[el cid again]

Given that the political assumptions for EEO involve planning since 1938, just about all merchant ships built from 1942 to 1945 are standardized designs - and the exceptions are usually built in larger, more homogenious classes than was done IRL. To this end, some smaller standardized designs are added. None are fictional - all are historical. But in many cases the number of ships known to have been built to the design are small. This may be because of incomplete records, but in any case the numbers were usually single digit. EEO is changing that. The process does NOT, however, permit any more steel, engine HP, different engine types, or required building facilities/labor. If a Small TK is replaced, it is replaced by a Type 1 series small standardized tanker.

While this is not very glamorous, it probably has more operational impact than ALL other changes combined. Writing designer notes for the original, mechanical (Simulations Publications) War In The Pacific, Jim Dunnigan once recommended "buy merchant ships" to Japanese players who wanted to be stronger - advice many gamers may find mystifying (but loggie doggies will understand).

EDIT: As a way to represent efficiency - and provide a payoff other than it is easier to form a tactical unit with identical speed, range and capacity vessels (they load/unload and move well together) - the availibility of these vessels will move forward slightly - on an increasing basis as the war wears on. The availability of steel and engines won't change - so it only moves the completion dates slightly.