Best fighter in WW2???

[RevRick]

If it had had the range of a P-51 then the Mustang wouldn't have been needed.

Maybe not, but you'd have had to build fifty more tankers to carry the extra needed avgas over to Europe. Thirsty beasts, they were!

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
For the record, the P-47 was produced in greater number (more than 15,000) than any other US fighter...

I thought the P-40 was the most produced WWII fighter, if one includes are variants, but I could be wrong.

Actually we may both be right.

Re the Encyclopedia of Aircraft of WWII, 15,683 Thunderbolts were produced.

At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, the P-40 was the most numerous American fighter.
However, the Encyclopedia discounted RAF Tomahawks! Final count for all Curtis P-40s was 16,802 "including 4,787 built against British contracts."

The Messerschmitt 109 series may have been flown by more (mostly Axis) countries than any other WW II aircraft.

I googled a little (though not very hard) after I made that post. According to information I found the 109 was probably far and away the most produced fighter with some 36,000 produced. I couldn't find numbers on the P-40. It may all be in how one poses the question. It may be that the P-47 was the most produced fighter flown by US forces, yet the P-40 may have been produced in greater numbers, just that a good many were flown by Commonwealth and Chinese pilots.

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
For the record, the P-47 was produced in greater number (more than 15,000) than any other US fighter...

I thought the P-40 was the most produced WWII fighter, if one includes are variants, but I could be wrong.

Actually we may both be right.

Re the Encyclopedia of Aircraft of WWII, 15,683 Thunderbolts were produced.

At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, the P-40 was the most numerous American fighter.
However, the Encyclopedia discounted RAF Tomahawks! Final count for all Curtis P-40s was 16,802 "including 4,787 built against British contracts."

The Messerschmitt 109 series may have been flown by more (mostly Axis) countries than any other WW II aircraft.

I think that over 24,000 Vickers Supermarine Spitfires were built, maybe a small number of these post war, as for flown by a variety of nations, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Denmark?, France, Belgium, Poland, USA, USSR, India, Sth Africa, Yugoslavia, Italy? plus a myriad of Nations postwar, maybe the Mustang could have been flown by a similar number of Nations.

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: hawker

Absolutely agree with you Big B.

I must add that both F-86 and MiG-15 was very similar planes. Both are derived from German blueprints[;)].

Even today everything is same. Who build the best fighter jets in a world?
Answer is simple,USA and Russia.
Pick any of their top notch fighters and in any case you will choose correctly.

Ups,i hijacked my own thread,back to topic. I think that we can conclude list of five.

1. Lavochkin La-7 (USSR) and North American P-51 "Mustang" (USA)

2. FW-190

3. Nakajima Ki-84 "Hayate"

4. Yakovlev Yak-3

I'd add the Me 262 to the list. Design took place in 1942 (at least from what I read) and if Hitler whould have posessed half a brain these would have rolled out in late 1943. These bad boyz were the incubators for the allied jets that came on thetail end of the war. I shrudder to think what large numbers of these "swallows" would have done to allied bombers and their escorts during daylight missions...

[Tiornu]

But alas, the jets have been specifically excluded from consideration.
Back to the F8F: was there any opponent superior as a dogfighter to the Bearcat? Is anyone as troubled as I by a Bearcat dogfight? Three animals in one noun phrase...!

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

But alas, the jets have been specifically excluded from consideration.
Back to the F8F: was there any opponent superior as a dogfighter to the Bearcat? Is anyone as troubled as I by a Bearcat dogfight? Three animals in one noun phrase...!

Numbers. To be considered "the best" fighter of WW II we really ought to stipulate that it was built and used in large enough numbers to have a significant impact on the War's outcome. That puts the Kibosh on many 1945 designs that were still "teething" at war's end.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I think that over 24,000 Vickers Supermarine Spitfires were built, maybe a small number of these post war, as for flown by a variety of nations, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Denmark?, France, Belgium, Poland, USA, USSR, India, Sth Africa, Yugoslavia, Italy? plus a myriad of Nations postwar, maybe the Mustang could have been flown by a similar number of Nations.

Re my aformentioned source, 20,000 Spitfires (all variants) were made between 1936 and 1948, of which more than 200 still survive and about 50 are airworthy, some operating as flying memorials for the Battle of Britain.

Post war, Burma, Egypt, France, India, Israel and the Netherlands all flew the Spitfire "in anger" during the 50's.

I tallied about one dozen nations that used the 109 -- some in very small numbers -- during WW II, not counting captured 109s by the USSR, France and the UK.

It would be interesting to compare and contrast the careers of the Spitfire and 109, although the latter's was cut short.
[/quote]

[MineSweeper]

TA 152

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I think that over 24,000 Vickers Supermarine Spitfires were built, maybe a small number of these post war, as for flown by a variety of nations, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Denmark?, France, Belgium, Poland, USA, USSR, India, Sth Africa, Yugoslavia, Italy? plus a myriad of Nations postwar, maybe the Mustang could have been flown by a similar number of Nations.

Re my aformentioned source, 20,000 Spitfires (all variants) were made between 1936 and 1948, of which more than 200 still survive and about 50 are airworthy, some operating as flying memorials for the Battle of Britain.

Post war, Burma, Egypt, France, India, Israel and the Netherlands all flew the Spitfire "in anger" during the 50's.

I tallied about one dozen nations that used the 109 -- some in very small numbers -- during WW II, not counting captured 109s by the USSR, France and the UK.

It would be interesting to compare and contrast the careers of the Spitfire and 109, although the latter's was cut short.

[/quote]

The Bf 109 was produced post war in Czechoslovakia as the Avia S199 (551 produced starting 1947) .

It (both German built and Czech built) was flown post war by at least 4 air forces: Israel, (which also flew Spitfires), Czechoslovakia, Switzerland and Spain. The Spanish ones were put into service over the channel for the making of the B of B film.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

... It would be interesting to compare and contrast the careers of the Spitfire and 109, although the latter's was cut short.

It (both German built and Czech built) was flown post war by at least 4 air forces: Israel, (which also flew Spitfires ...

Israel flew both 109s and Spitfires! Who knew that these planes would have ever flown together on the same side?

Edit: sloppy posting on my part

[Dixie]

I believe that Turkey also flew Allied and Axis types post war.  (Spitfire and FW190)

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

But alas, the jets have been specifically excluded from consideration.
Back to the F8F: was there any opponent superior as a dogfighter to the Bearcat? Is anyone as troubled as I by a Bearcat dogfight? Three animals in one noun phrase...!

Numbers. To be considered "the best" fighter of WW II we really ought to stipulate that it was built and used in large enough numbers to have a significant impact on the War's outcome. That puts the Kibosh on many 1945 designs that were still "teething" at war's end.

Not to split hairs, but well, here it goes...I agree, but would change the words from significant impact on the wars outcome to flew in significant enough quantity to assess the fighters capability. By that mark the Bearcat and ME 262 might make the grade, but planes like the TA 152 likely would not. They saw significant enough combat to show that they weren't just great on paper, they performed as extremely well. By 1945 nothing was significantly going to change the course of the war.

[mdiehl]

I must add that both F-86 and MiG-15 was very similar planes. Both are derived from German blueprints

That claim is not correct.

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

[:D][:D][:D]

[Speedysteve]

[:D]

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

I believe that Turkey also flew Allied and Axis types post war.  (Spitfire and FW190)

After my third helping of Thanksgiving leftovers in as many days, I had to read your post twice to understand exactly what you meant by Turkey!

[Gen.Hoepner]

LOL[:D][:D][:D]

[decaro]

Your signature looks like some martial Latin saying from my Rome: Total War game, but my game always includes a translation!

[Gen.Hoepner]

It's a fragment of Mussolini's speech when he declares war to France and GB...
something like:
..."an hour, marked by destiny, beats in the skies of our country..."

[mdiehl]

bad boyz were the incubators for the allied jets that came on thetail end of the war.

No, actually, they were not. The US and the UK a.c. manufacturers were all well-along in basic design studies and jet engine design before any Allied strategic planner got wind of the ME-262. The specific design of the P-80 was, of course, implemented in response to an rfp issued because of the ME-262, but it was not based on the ME-262 in any way.

In the long run the Lockheed P-80 was a much better design than the ME-262, in that it had much lower drag and better acceleration and turning characteristics. It was, of course, completely not needed by mid-1944, and thus "on the back burner." If the ME-262 had not been such a dog of an aircraft, the US would likely have invested more in its production to bring it to the table in 1944.

"I shrudder to think what large numbers of these "swallows" would have done to allied bombers and their escorts during daylight missions... "

They'd have done very little had Allied escorts of any kind been available. The ME-262s 1944-1945 combat record in daylight ops against escorted bombers was rather poor, resulting in the destruction of on the order of 125 Allied a.c. of all types for more than twice that in ME-262s. The 262's strategic weakness (lack of air-time) was so extreme that it hampered the ME-262 tactically as well, rendering it vulnerable to most of the top-performing piston engined a.c. of the day.

The Luftwaffe would have been much much much better off skipping the ME-262 development process (and several other white elephants) entirely, and sticking to rationalizing and increasing the production of FW-190Ds. Strategically, the FW-190 was a far better aircraft than the ME-262.