Third party content for HCCE/ANW - FAQ needed

[MarkShot]

(I originally planned to post this on the Dawn Patrol thread, but decided to start a new one.)

This scenario appears to be slightly different from the one which comes with 3.6.3 and 3.8.0.

Why do I need Euro DB, it seems to load and run with the out of the box HCCE DB?

Sorry, I am a little confused about managing DBs (I know how to switch them) and scenarios for HCCE. One thing when it comes to battle sets, DB, and scenarios for HCCE and ANW, it is often assumed by those who design and make these things available that potential players have extended experience with Harpoon. However, there are people like me with zero experience who do not understand the reasons for various DBs (from a conceptual level) to where to put things and how to use things (from a structural level).

It would be really great if for both products, someone could write a FAQ that basically answers:

(1) Where are the best places to find third party resources for the game.

(2) What third party resources exist and what do they offer the player.

(3) What are the common swappable components and what file structure corresponds to them.

(4) How to install and remove third party resources.

It appears to be that both HCCE and ANW come with a wealth of material bundles right with the game. It further appears that there is a wealth of third party stuff (however, it is unclear how much of it is already included) available beyond the stock game. It would be good to let people know how access that, since a common concern by most new customers is what about "replayability"; especially when you are talking about a game like HCCE that has no MP. Unlike most very old titles, it seems that Harpoon has a lot of evolving new content and that most older content is upward compatible. This is a very important point for whether someone wants to buy into the $60 USD for a bundle and the learning curve for both games.

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
(I originally planned to post this on the Dawn Patrol thread, but decided to start a new one.) This scenario appears to be slightly different from the one which comes with 3.6.3 and 3.8.0. Why do I need Euro DB, it seems to load and run with the out of the box HCCE DB?

If you've downloaded and are using the Dawn Patrol scenario that Rene Haar recently rewrote for HCE, then I expect the scenario would run best using his database, the Euro DB.

Sorry, I am a little confused about managing DBs (I know how to switch them) and scenarios for HCCE. One thing when it comes to battle sets, DB, and scenarios for HCCE and ANW, it is often assumed by those who design and make these things available that potential players have extended experience with Harpoon. However, there are people like me with zero experience who do not understand the reasons for various DBs (from a conceptual level) to where to put things and how to use things (from a structural level). It would be really great if for both products, someone could write a FAQ that basically answers:

(1) Where are the best places to find third party resources for the game.
(2) What third party resources exist and what do they offer the player.
(3) What are the common swappable components and what file structure corresponds to them.
(4) How to install and remove third party resources.

It appears to be that both HCCE and ANW come with a wealth of material bundles right with the game. It further appears that there is a wealth of third party stuff (however, it is unclear how much of it is already included) available beyond the stock game. It would be good to let people know how access that, since a common concern by most new customers is what about "replayability"; especially when you are talking about a game like HCCE that has no MP. Unlike most very old titles, it seems that Harpoon has a lot of evolving new content and that most older content is upward compatible. This is a very important point for whether someone wants to buy into the $60 USD for a bundle and the learning curve for both games.

An FAQ that hopefully answers all of these questions will eventually be hammered out. In the meantime we'll try and answer each question you have on an individual basis.

As for your questions #1 and #2, you probably will find everything you need for HCE in the way of third party resources (i.e. databases and scenarios) at HarpGamer. I wrote the HCDB database that comes with the game, and its home is at HarpGamer. You can find other user databases there as well, and a wealth of scenarios.

Re questions #3 and #4, the basic Platform Editor (PE) and DB (Database) swapping process can be found here.

[MarkShot]

Well, on the personal side, I think most of my questions are answered or I know who to ask.

It was more a general issue with very old and established game communities. Often too much is assumed by the community that ends up being a barrier to entry for new players. I think this is particularly important at this juncture. After having looked at both HCCE and ANW, I definitely think HCCE has the potential to pull in total noobs. Despite a somewhat dated appearance, it is fairly straight forward and a very personable game. (H3 is also a very high quality game experience, but I don't see it having the power to pull in impulse buyers ... the type who feel they just have to buy a new game from time to time. But I think HCCE has that power.) So, I just wanted to caution against letting HCCE being hampered by leaving too much to be assumed by the noob; that would be a shame.

In fact, along those lines, I had mentioned it previously. The H2/H3 line of manuals have a most excellent guide to naval warfare by Ed Dille; very noob friendly. Given that AGSI is the rights holder for all things Harpoon, that material should certainly be reproduced and made available for HCCE buyers as well. Clearly questions asked here about ASW warfare ... thermal layers ... active detection ... passive detection ... are all addressed by this guide.

I hope you don't mind me voicing my opinion here, but you folks have given so much time to keep this game alive ... I want to see you suceed and, in fact, bring in new generations of players.

[PaulWRoberts]

I have finally jumped in and bought HCE.

My first FAQ is this: over at HarpGamer I see a lot of scenarios that were designed for earlier versions of Harpoon Classic. Are these scenarios compatible with HCE? Is there any reason not to use them, or should we wait for them to be updated for HCE?

(I already know that H3 scenarios don't cross over.)

Thanks!

[Divefreak]

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

I have finally jumped in and bought HCE.

My first FAQ is this: over at HarpGamer I see a lot of scenarios that were designed for earlier versions of Harpoon Classic. Are these scenarios compatible with HCE? Is there any reason not to use them, or should we wait for them to be updated for HCE?

(I already know that H3 scenarios don't cross over.)

Thanks!

They work.....

HCE is down cmpatible.....

[8D]

[MarkShot]

I presume that you should always load them with the recommended DB from the site, correct?

Also, with Dawn Patrol, I had noticed that you must first open the right battle set and then select user scenario in order to make the scenario visible in the selection list, correct? Unlike H3, independent scenarios don't simply appear as files at top level, correct?

Thanks.

[Divefreak]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I presume that you should always load them with the recommended DB from the site, correct?

Also, with Dawn Patrol, I had noticed that you must first open the right battle set and then select user scenario in order to make the scenario visible in the selection list, correct? Unlike H3, independent scenarios don't simply appear as files at top level, correct?

Thanks.

Absolutly correct.


But At a later point user created Battlesets will be availbe/possible [8D]

[TonyE]

Correct MarkShot, it is a rather strange behavior in HC that you can open any save and it will change battleset as needed to accomodate you. But you must open user made scenarios with the correct battleset selected.



2 things are coming in the unspecified future:



1. A HC launcher program. You've seen something similar if you have ANW in JPK's launcher (in part for which he won the 2006 Pooner award (vote at http://www.harpoonpages.com/). See attached screenshot.

2. The ability to load scenarios via command line switches (really an enabler for #1).


The launcher should have the following features (and more):

• Game Engine
  • Launch the selected scenario
    • The scenario might be hosted on HarpGamer or some other site, as long as they adhere to whatever organization (it'll be an xml format specifier for listing scenarios, saves, databases) and will be downloaded by the HC Launcher to play.
    • The scenario may use a database not on the local machine so the launcher looks on the Internet for the correct DB, downloads as needed and activates.
    • May include downloading an entirely new battleset and putting it into place.
  • Launch the selected saved game
  • Set certain game settings
    • ex. Settings set 1, with certain range circles set, Settings set 2, with animations turned off
• Scenario Editor
  • Pretty much a mirror of Game Engine capabilities
• Platform Editor
  • Not sure how PE will be affected, but there is file management to do so there will be a place...
• Ability to upload your own scenarios/databases to the Internet, though there are many challenges to making this happen, probably need to create modules/components for the major forum software packages.

In the end the launcher becomes a friendly way to get into the game, saving the huge amounts of time it would take to build these features into the game itself (where of course they would feel more natural).

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
Also, with Dawn Patrol, I had noticed that you must first open the right battle set and then select user scenario in order to make the scenario visible in the selection list, correct? Unlike H3, independent scenarios don't simply appear as files at top level, correct? Thanks.

In HCE, scenarios from particular BattleSets have their own specific filename structure. That way, only the scenarios from that BattleSet will appear as being available for play. More on the filename structure here

[MarkShot]

Thanks. That link about filenames explains quite a few other questions that had been in the back of my mind ... like the name for autosave games.

The whole save game think occurred to me, since I had written a checkpoint/restore utility for HCCE so that I could backtrack a game easily and explore variations in approaches (also good for AARs). Yesterday, I also put a few lines of code to capture and append message logs so that a game played in multiple sessions does not get lost.

Thanks guys for taking the time to answer my questions. Don't forget to add all this great stuff to an FAQ and not just let it scroll into oblivion.

[TonyE]

Hehe, we're looking for a wishlist maintainer at HarpGamer