Diplomacy on Belgium?

[ulver]

Any point in attempting to influence Belgium as the Entente?

Have anyone ever succeeded in getting Belgium to enter the war by spending diplomacy on her? Is it possible and if so how much effort will it take.

The only alternative I can see is a French invasion if Germany goes East and the will pretty much keep the US out of the war permanently.

[Franck]

I never had a human player go east on me... So I couldn't tell you what to do. I seems to me as I would just try to break germany in the comun border... Attacking Belgium will only open up 2 hexes that will easily be filled by Germany, and you can't declare before turn 2 anyway. Plus all of the free corps you get could be used in the Balkan/Ottoman empire.
What I would do, is deny a fight to the CP in the east (just flee before the all mighty german corps) While trying to defend some key position (Food hexes mainly and those close to austria not the Germans... because if you loose just 3 of them, it's gona be pretty bad...) And wait for the big reenforcement, start digging pretty far back. I would use England and France to try and kick Ott out of the war to be able to ship food to Russia...

[SMK-at-work]

No - IIRC Belgium is a "true" neutral and will not join the war unless invaded - Neherlands and Albania are the only other 2 such countries - everyone else can be persuaded to join.

[boogada]

In two current games the CP does an East first strategy and although I try, I do not do a good job attacking the Germans with the frensh troops. I might try declaring war on Belgium in another game. It just opens the line and the Germans have no fortifications there. 

[SMK-at-work]

If you declare war on Belgium then Germany has a fortification at Liege!![:D]

[boogada]

I know I know. but there is still a gap between Metz and Liege. And the British can just amphip to Dunkirk and Antwerp!

[SMK-at-work]

They can amphib to Dunkirirk anyway - perhaps you mean Ostend??
 
A Belgian or German corps in Antwerp might make life difficutl for the Brits...does Strat move come before or after Ampib?

[Franck]

In my games against a cpu ( ok not as good as a human player ) I never had a problem breaking the german line holding in front of the french... Sure, you will fail a couple of attacks... But if is hexes are fully stacked he won't be able to rotate troops... You'll hit him before the old one move out, and before the new one move in... So by keeping some fresh troops rotating for the assault you should break him in 2-3 assault. The major problem is that you don't have enough corps at the beggining to exploit the gap left once you do break threw... You have to wait for the big British reenforcement the will show up later... But Russia can easily trade space for time (granted, it will loose 2 important food source ( in poland ). But it can live a long time with only land loosse if it can maintain it's army. Plus Russia wins by lengthening the german front line. You'll have heeps of units... Germany won't. Let him get lost in Russia... You should try to open up new front too until you have the power too exploit any gap you could make in the western theater... Time is on your side... Just let him enjoy the beating for the time it's gona last!
 

[boogada]

Do'h yes Ostende not Dunkirk.

Amphib and strat move are done simultaneously. but: you can't strat move in the first turn.

I wonder what happens if both Germany and the Entente declares war on Belgium during the first turn.....

[boogada]

I also wonder if its any use to declare war on Holland. Maybe declare war on Holland, take it during the first turn, move your troops to the Belgium border and declare war on Belgium the next turn. Sure America will not appreciate this, but...

I need to play some games vs the AI to test this.

[SMK-at-work]

I've invaded Holand as the TE vs a player once - a while ago now...but it was to outflank hte German lines in Belgium...essentially a reverse Schliefflen...no the US didn't like it, but what are they going to do about it??  Enough diplo points will asuage their concerns [8D]

[hjaco]

Well I am one of Boogadas evil spirits and so have given this some consideration in advance of our recent game [;)]

As the Entente I would wait to interfere in France until summer 15´ after the British mobilization is concluded and enough forces are ready to make a sustained offensive all over the front. If you just leave it to France there quite simply wont be enough troops there for offensive operations because Germany needs at least 20 corps in the west to keep France at bay and inflict enough casualties to make attrition a bad investment for the Entente. If France shifts the bulk of their troops northwards then Germany will do the same.
Besides this delayed attack will give France time to build that absolutely vital siege artillery to crack Metz and Liege fortresses.

[hjaco]

I am also in the privileged situation to currently execute an east first strategy (currently Jan/Feb 15') against the honored author of this thread so maybe my advice is only a giant trap Ulver....

Imagine hordes of Huns reserve corps standing ready to support their Belgian Brethrens while US turns their back to European affairs in disgust [;)]

[boogada]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

As the Entente I would wait to interfere in France until summer 15´ after the British mobilization is concluded and enough forces are ready to make a sustained offensive all over the front. If you just leave it to France there quite simply wont be enough troops there for offensive operations because Germany needs at least 20 corps in the west to keep France at bay and inflict enough casualties to make attrition a bad investment for the Entente. If France shifts the bulk of their troops northwards then Germany will do the same.
Besides this delayed attack will give France time to build that absolutely vital siege artillery to crack Metz and Liege fortresses.

Well, I had a bunch of troops along the French-Belgian border already. No shifting north necessary. I had to move them south to attack the German lines.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: boogada
I wonder what happens if both Germany and the Entente declares war on Belgium during the first turn.....

The Entente gets first crack to declare war because their strategic phase is being handled first.

[ulver]

The problem is that the information displayed in-game is misleading: Based on Belgium being listed as Pro-Entente:

[ulver]

One would logically assume that she could be influenced to join the Entente but even after getting this result:



playing against the evil mastermind Belgium stayed put. This is it seems to me a bug. If she can not be influenced Belgium should be listed as neutral - not pro-entente.

[spence]

The exact nature of "OVERTURES" are unspecified. Perhaps there is a die roll involved and the reality of the overtures in the case mentioned was that the good King of Belgium was not offered enough German territory or colonies to be enticed into joining the Entente.

[Shawkhan]

The game manual says that Belgium is pro-entente but its timeline is such that it would never enter the war on its own. CP invasions of other neutrals and diplomatic overtures supposedly reduce the timeline. It might be interesting to try an experiment with invading Holland and/or using massive amounts of diplomatic points to see if it is indeed possible to draw Belgium into the war.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Well I am one of Boogadas evil spirits and so have given this some consideration in advance of our recent game [;)]

As the Entente I would wait to interfere in France until summer 15´ after the British mobilization is concluded and enough forces are ready to make a sustained offensive all over the front. If you just leave it to France there quite simply wont be enough troops there for offensive operations because Germany needs at least 20 corps in the west to keep France at bay and inflict enough casualties to make attrition a bad investment for the Entente. If France shifts the bulk of their troops northwards then Germany will do the same.
Besides this delayed attack will give France time to build that absolutely vital siege artillery to crack Metz and Liege fortresses.

I was wondering what you were up to with the French. It was suspiciously quiet on the Western Front. So now I have to come up with an effective counter to your strategy. Pulling the teeth and claws from the Russian bear before you can unleash the French is a challenge but necessary it seems.