US FO Team (once again?)

[Whitmire]

What's the point of having them, really? Yeah, they are "super scouts", but so are snipers, and pushing your FOs to the front always seems like handing points to the enemy.

I just started a US vs GER battle (yeah, along with the SOV battle I started before), and, well, "noticed" that I can get 0.1 response times, when I plot fire by using the artillery pieces themselves as spotters. Granted, I do not get the LOS modifier, but getting 0.1 response times every turn without a FO is just amazing.

I'm a returning SP player, so I did know of this advantage before, but it never ceases to amaze me. Do any other nations get 0.1 response times like this? I don't think it's even mentioned in the manual as a national advantage.

It's a small 1600-point per side battle set in 7/44, which will be very interesting. I will be hard-pushed to destroy those Tigers, when they come a-roaming, especially if they're Kings.

[FlashfyreSP]

FO's are handy when your artillery units are securely behind the lines and you need LOS to the targets for quick-response barrages. But the game doesn't model the whole FO-artillery request-barrage system very well.

[KG Erwin]

When I play my Pacific battles, I don't even bother with buying FOs. The ability to shield my Marines with self-spotting quick-response mortars/light artillery is a definite blessing.

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Whitmire

What's the point of having them, really? Yeah, they are "super scouts", but so are snipers, and pushing your FOs to the front always seems like handing points to the enemy.

I just started a US vs GER battle (yeah, along with the SOV battle I started before), and, well, "noticed" that I can get 0.1 response times, when I plot fire by using the artillery pieces themselves as spotters. Granted, I do not get the LOS modifier, but getting 0.1 response times every turn without a FO is just amazing.

I'm a returning SP player, so I did know of this advantage before, but it never ceases to amaze me. Do any other nations get 0.1 response times like this? I don't think it's even mentioned in the manual as a national advantage.

It's a small 1600-point per side battle set in 7/44, which will be very interesting. I will be hard-pushed to destroy those Tigers, when they come a-roaming, especially if they're Kings.

The .01 arty response time has to do with the "National Characteristics" turned on and using an FO.
Turn it off and you still may get some .01 times but not evry unit I wouldnt think.

[Whitmire]

I decided to save the 21 points (got an entire recon squad instead) and use one of the armored mortars to do the task. The unit I chose has about 70 in Art command, so it should be pretty effective as an ersatz FO.

This must be the best national characteristic in the game! I also love the Garands with a firepower of 2 at a range of 12! And the M1 Carbines that I initially regarded as poor weapons are basically SMGs with a range of 6! That makes my infantry horribly effective (on paper at least). And the option to field elite (airborne) recon teams... I'm impressed. While the USMC has to pay for its firepower with the poor quality of its tanks and low ammo counts, the US Army doesn't seem to have many disadvantages. Even the national characteristic to retreat as soon as the lead-consistency of the surrounding air increases seems more like an advantage.

I have to say I've been playing far too many games as the Axis and far too few as the US! I always went for the RKKA or the British when I was Allied, but I think I just learned something new. I can't wait to have a decent battle with these guys. 1600 points per side on a small map is nothing but a skirmish.

Well, thanks for the replies!

[Whitmire]

Ok, I definitely found a use for the FO: having LOS helps immensely with artillery accuracy. Apparently the gimmick "set the time at 0.1 by using US arty and re-plot it with a unit with LOS" doesn't work. At least I got the "no LOS" message when I tried it in my current game, and I definitely had LOS when replotting (I had my ersatz FO on a hill with a great, wide LOS).

A few questions:

Does having LOS affect the deadliness of fire, i.e. the Kill characteristic of shells landing on target? It's obvious that it affects accuracy, but I am asking whether shells landing on target (or off target on another enemy unit) cause more casualties when you do have LOS or not.

Concerning arty times.

This is what I've read:
"0.3 = no rounds at end of your turn, 100% of rounds at end of enemy turn."

Is it really so that at 0.3 you get a full salvo, but it lands at the end of the enemy's turn? I thought you wouldn't get a full barrage after 0.1, but if this is true, then 0.3 sounds like an excellent way to prep an assault on your turn. Does the barrage land before auto-rally kicks in?

Concerning A0 and HQ contact:

I have had my A0 within 3 hexes of all of my mortar units for the whole game, all completely immobile, but still, for one turn, my mortars said that they weren't in contact. They had not received any fire and I had not moved them, but for some reason they refused to fire. Why is this? (I have a screenshot, but it just shows that the A0 is really within 3 hexes.) They shouldn't have any need for radio, and they normally show that they have a visual contact to the HQ. For this one turn it said "No contact."

Here's the screenshot:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7343/hqlinkvb2.jpg
(That one mortar unit outside the range is not the 0-unit. It's the last in the formation.)

Also, somewhere I read something about Command Center units having a 5-hex contact range. Is this range special to the Command Center unit or was it a typo?

"Sticky" bombardment icons:

They sometimes stick together in the Bombardment screen especially after you've fired two or more artillery pieces at the same hex. What happens is that wherever you place one bombardment target, the other sticks with it, and the computer refuses to give you two different targets that turn (or even two different shell types). This bug (?) usually affects for only one turn, but it can be a pain sometimes.

Units with a range of 0:

Okay this has nothing to do with US FO's, but I thought I'd stick this question here along with the rest of 'em:

If a unit has a range of 0 (which should be the defensive stance, right?), does it attempt to ambush units that appear in the next hex, or will it only fire after it has been shot at? I am of course talking about the "reaction" range that you can set by pressing Y, not weapons with a range of 0.

So basically I'm asking about the difference between ranges of 0 and 1.

[FlashfyreSP]

ORIGINAL: Whitmire

Ok, I definitely found a use for the FO: having LOS helps immensely with artillery accuracy. Apparently the gimmick "set the time at 0.1 by using US arty and re-plot it with a unit with LOS" doesn't work. At least I got the "no LOS" message when I tried it in my current game, and I definitely had LOS when replotting (I had my ersatz FO on a hill with a great, wide LOS).

A few questions:

Does having LOS affect the deadliness of fire, i.e. the Kill characteristic of shells landing on target? It's obvious that it affects accuracy, but I am asking whether shells landing on target (or off target on another enemy unit) cause more casualties when you do have LOS or not.

No. The LOS benefit has nothing to do with the lethality of the rounds. It helps increase the overall lethality of the barrage, though, as there will be more "rounds on target".

Concerning arty times.

This is what I've read:
"0.3 = no rounds at end of your turn, 100% of rounds at end of enemy turn."

Is it really so that at 0.3 you get a full salvo, but it lands at the end of the enemy's turn? I thought you wouldn't get a full barrage after 0.1, but if this is true, then 0.3 sounds like an excellent way to prep an assault on your turn. Does the barrage land before auto-rally kicks in?

Barrages with less than a 0.3 delay begin landing at the end of your turn (before the AutoRally Phase), and continue at the end of your opponent's turn (before his AutoRally Phase). However, any Suppression results from the portion landing at the end of your turn are subject to Rallying during your opponent's turn, which may mitigate them. And then the smaller barrage at the end of his turn will have less overall effect.

Concerning A0 and HQ contact:

I have had my A0 within 3 hexes of all of my mortar units for the whole game, all completely immobile, but still, for one turn, my mortars said that they weren't in contact. They had not received any fire and I had not moved them, but for some reason they refused to fire. Why is this? (I have a screenshot, but it just shows that the A0 is really within 3 hexes.) They shouldn't have any need for radio, and they normally show that they have a visual contact to the HQ. For this one turn it said "No contact."

Here's the screenshot:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7343/hqlinkvb2.jpg
(That one mortar unit outside the range is not the 0-unit. It's the last in the formation.)

Also, somewhere I read something about Command Center units having a 5-hex contact range. Is this range special to the Command Center unit or was it a typo?

Having the A0 near artillery units is no guarantee that contact will be maintained 100%. There is a random element to the contact subroutine, which can result in units being "out of contact" when everything appears fine.
If by "Command Center" units you are referring to the Command Post, it has no effect on contact. The 5-hex radius is for Morale effects and reducing Suppression.

"Sticky" bombardment icons:

They sometimes stick together in the Bombardment screen especially after you've fired two or more artillery pieces at the same hex. What happens is that wherever you place one bombardment target, the other sticks with it, and the computer refuses to give you two different targets that turn (or even two different shell types). This bug (?) usually affects for only one turn, but it can be a pain sometimes.

Not sure what this is referring to; there are times when artillery plots are not available to you to shift, due to contact or other factors.

Units with a range of 0:

Okay this has nothing to do with US FO's, but I thought I'd stick this question here along with the rest of 'em:

If a unit has a range of 0 (which should be the defensive stance, right?), does it attempt to ambush units that appear in the next hex, or will it only fire after it has been shot at? I am of course talking about the "reaction" range that you can set by pressing Y, not weapons with a range of 0.

So basically I'm asking about the difference between ranges of 0 and 1.

If you set a unit's Range to "0", it will still attempt to defend itself from adjacent units at times, although not as often as when the Range is set to "1". This is due to the vagaries of the Spec Op Fire system, and some random elements within the combat routines. And that Range is the weapon range; there are no Weapons with OOB Ranges of "0", as this causes code issues, but setting the Unit Range to "0" effectively makes all the unit's weapons have a Max Range of "0".

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Whitmire


"Sticky" bombardment icons:

They sometimes stick together in the Bombardment screen especially after you've fired two or more artillery pieces at the same hex. What happens is that wherever you place one bombardment target, the other sticks with it, and the computer refuses to give you two different targets that turn (or even two different shell types). This bug (?) usually affects for only one turn, but it can be a pain sometimes.

This usually happens when you use one piece of arty to call in the bombardment...IE like using a 50mm mortar as the "spotter" or FO, the other mortars "stick" to wherever you plotted the first one.

[Whitmire]

Thanks, that does clear up a lot of questions!

Barrages with less than a 0.3 delay begin landing at the end of your turn (before the AutoRally Phase), and continue at the end of your opponent's turn (before his AutoRally Phase). However, any Suppression results from the portion landing at the end of your turn are subject to Rallying during your opponent's turn, which may mitigate them. And then the smaller barrage at the end of his turn will have less overall effect.

Yes, but isn't a delay of 0.3 supposed to give you 100% of rounds, just like 0.1, just at a different time? That was my idea: why allow the enemy a chance to rally, if you can drop the same amount of shells at phase 0.3, when he can't do much more than hope that auto-rally does the job (unless he's already expended most of his Rally abilities)? Of course there'd be a use for both delays, but if 0.3 gives 100% of shells, then it sounds like a perfect way to prep an assault, because the enemy does not get a chance to rally (apart from auto-rally).

I tested this with some US Ranger mortars. AT 0.1 I got 9 rounds in the first phase (after my turn), then 4 more rounds at the end of the enemy's turn. At 0.3 I got 13 shells at the end of the enemy's turn. (Also, if I didn't calculate wrong, I got only 12 shells in total with 0.2.) I have to say that the 13 rounds at phase 0.3 would be much more effective at suppressing the enemy's morale just prior to my assault, because they aren't allowed to plan their rally sequence and/or move "0"-units in command range to assist in the rally.

I can find plenty of uses for 0.1 as well, like breaking up an enemy advance or attack or suppress the enemy before they can fire, but I've never really understood just how effective 0.3 can be in the right situation. Thus far I've avoided all other times apart from 0.1 and 0.2 and just moved on to 1.1 and fire at the end of my turn rather than risk losing shots in an area that the enemy has just vacated with 0.3 and 0.4, let alone 0.5, delays.

Alby: I suppose it's just an annoying bug then.

Thanks for the replies!

[FlashfyreSP]

The delays are not absolute, as the ROF of the unit and the Warhead of the weapon play a part in determining the number of bombs dropped during the barrage, and when they are dropped.

BTW, mortars get a bonus to their total ROF in indirect fire. So they will drop more bombs than other artillery pieces for the same basic ROF. Means they aren't the best unit to use to test/observe the situation...

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Whitmire

Thanks, that does clear up a lot of questions!

Alby: I suppose it's just an annoying bug then.

Thanks for the replies!

Use your Plt HQ to call in fire for your light Mortars or an FO unit and this wont happen
[:)]

[vahauser]

Whitmire,
 
You get 2/3 rounds at the start of the enemy turn and 1/3 rounds at the end of the enemy turn if your delay is 0.1.
 
You get 1/3 rounds at the start of the enemy turn and 2/3 rounds at the end of the enemy turn if your delay is 0.2.
 
You get 0/3 rounds at the start of the enemy turn and 3/3 rounds at the end of the enemy turn if your delay is 0.3.
 
You get 0/3 rounds at the start of the enemy turn and 2/3 rounds at the end of the enemy turn if your delay is 0.4.