ORIGINAL: MarkShot
So, how to arrive at the optimal use of ASW resources?
I have four per group. If I have four patrol, then I have maximum change of finding a sub, but then I forfeit a guaranteed first response. Would it be better to have two working the formation and two on alert read to hunt down a sub which has been detected?
Also, once I have that contact should I allocate everything to working the contact or should continue to cover the formation with the pre-assigned helos?
If you go bingo without an exact contact is it better to just drop your fish and hope for a hit or are you encouraging the sub to run when it would rather creep and therefore increase the rate of growth of the area of uncertainty?
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Thanks a lot for all the help. I have heard it said that this scenario is really tough, but I tend to think it is just ignorance on my part. I think once I have the best techniques down I will have steady and repeatable results.
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I also play SC/DW. I am at the point where I would like to get into my own SC/DW scenario design. This Harpoon stuff (HCCE/H363) is really great! It is giving me lots of good ideas for SC/DW scenarios.
Hi Mark,
I am currently working on a document covering ASW operations in HCE, while being no expert I wanted to give something to the community from my own knowledge and the way I do things.
Here is an extract you might find useful... still in very rough draft however and I havent incorperated any screenshots yet.
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Formations
Here at your command in HCE is the very powerful tool of the formation editor, with this you can set and see with ease where your patrols are located and what area they cover. Obviously making your task of keeping your ship formations covered much easier and giving you a better idea of where you may have holes in your screen.
Ships:
Your surface vessels with their strength in ASW usually carry 1 to 2 helicopters on their back deck and have a towed array at their disposal. With regards to offensive ability against submarines, they really are themselves a last ditch defence for the surface group you are travelling with.
They should be used primarily for detection and location of submarines with their sensors and then taking advantage of their long arm in the form of ASW equipped helicopters to localise, interrogate and attack the contact. If you have a number of these vessels available with a helicopter compliment, you can cover more areas with ASW patrols conducted by the helicopters.
The towed array on the ASW ships is the most powerful asset for detection of submarines in the area, it is a very sensitive piece of passive sonar equipment towed some distance behind the ship listening for the subtle sounds made by a submarine and is often capable to probe into the convergence zones that exist in certain areas of water. The only problem with such a sensitive piece of equipment is that its performance will be degraded moving at high speeds ( 10 knots or more ) performance and chance of detection will also be reduced when the deployed towed array is close in formation with the main body of a surface group, which is very noisy.
From this we can deduce that it is best to place your ASW ships in the formation editor at a distance from your main group, I usually place them up to 30nm away from the main group, but I also make sure that there are AAW capable ships nearby which can deal with any incoming missiles that threaten the ASW vessels. Usually however in a situation with a high missile threat I will draw my ASW ring in closer in order to keep them mutually protected.
However the positioning of your ships should also be dependent on the current task of the group read my below suggestions:
Fast moving escort: When moving a valuable surface group at high speed, the most likely angle of approach for an enemy submarine is from the frontal quarter, since it is easier and quicker for the submarine to make it up close using mutual closing velocities.
- A sub moving at 10 knots straight for the front of the convoy
- A convoy moving at 20 knots on the same bearing as the approaching sub
10 + 20 = 30
So the submarine is actually getting a closure on the convoy of 30 knots! Whilst remaining quieter at the lower speed. The sub will be forced to make much more noise if he wants to approach from behind or the flanks plus a torpedo shot will have to be launched much closer to ensure it reaches its target. If you can spare one keep a ship with moderately capable passive sonars near the rear of the formation, so should such an approach be attempted you will stand a better chance of hearing his noisy approach.
You can see from this that making sure the frontal sector is clear is a very high priority as this is the submarines easiest route in if not covered well.
Consider having two of your ASW vessels well up front of the convoy using their position to also perform ASW searches with helicopters even further out than that, as mentioned above, don’t forget your rear sector, if you have no more ASW ships, a ship with moderately capable passive sensors will be fine for this.
Slow moving escort: When you are faced with escorting a slow moving group of ships with your ASW vessels, you will need a more rounded area of coverage, the group is vulnerable to submarines from all angles, the front is always the most advantageous due to increased closing speed, but they now have the option of slowly sneaking in from behind or onto the flanks.
In this situation I believe it is best to keep ASW ships primarily to the sides of the surface group level with it, since this way you can split equally your passive sonar coverage to the front and the rear of the group as well as covering both sides. You should be able to take advantage of the slower speed of the group to allow your towed arrays to search with less sound clutter.
ASW hunter killer group: When your ASW ships are grouped up in hunter killer formations, you can afford to be more aggressive with your actions, spread your ships out and keep them about 20 – 30 nm apart, it doesn’t usually matter how exact you are with the placement of your vessels (Although a triangle works well) as long as you stick to spreading them out because you should get good coverage from that anyway. Allow your search helicopters to either plow ahead of your ASW group or guard the flanks.
It is best to move your ASW group in bounds, sprinting for a while, then slowing to 5 knots rinse and repeat.
Using this large spread of the group if a torpedo is in the water you can usually tell which ship has been fired on and detach it from the group to manuver away, likewise a missile attack will be unlikely to catch several ships in one strike, instead it will be more likely that one takes the brunt of the assault.
Helicopters:
These are your surface groups power to reach out and touch submarines at long range before they get within firing range, they are also the mainstay of your surface groups ability to react fast to a close and urgent threat that has sneaked through the net.
While mainly being useful for intercepting and prosecuting the attack of contact that has been detected, they are also capable of filling holes in your passive sonar net and providing barriers of sonobuoys denying enemy submarines un-detected access to certain areas.
It is important to ensure that you have at least 1 ASW helicopter on the deck and ready to roll, there is nothing worse than finding a contact and you have no helicopters to intercept, the longer you take to get to and fully localise a contact, the more chance it has of getting out of contact and being lost, no sub surface contact is to be treated with complacency ever.
If you have a carrier in your group its highly likely that you can field a decent number of helicopters airborne with plenty to spare on the deck, in which case I would say to use 4 helicopters airborne at a time and make them cover 90 degree arcs all around your group, doubling up where you feel the heaviest threat will appear from.
In most situations where you only have around 2 ASW ships in your formation, your probably only going to have a max of about 4 helicopters available. In which case its best to have 2 airborne at a time with 2 sat on deck at any one time, this way the AI will never run out of helicopters since the rotation process will work. There will always be a helicopter able to react to a threat, whether it is in the air or on the deck.
In this situation you will have to consider which sectors of your formation you need to cover and I personally would base my decision on the type of task the group is currently undertaking as I mentioned earlier when discussing the position of your ASW ships.
Fast moving escort: In this situation we want to have one of your helicopters out in front of your two ASW ships which are already ahead of the formation, this could then leave you one free to sweep the flanks or cover the rear if you feel under threat. You could even sweep in between your forward ASW ships and the main body of the formation to sanitise anything really quiet which got through somehow.
Slow moving escort: In this situation since your ASW ships as I described are on the flanks it might be an idea to push your ASW helicopters to the front and rear to put up a barrier. The flanks of your ASW ships may also be a consideration to defend.
ASW hunter killer group: In this type of task you want to concentrate your helicopters in an aggressive search, mainly you want your helicopters to be out with their parent ship patrolling their frontal area sweeping their moves forward, so position them in the formation to reflect this.
It might also be a good idea to occasionally flip the patrols to the rear of the line of movement just to make sure some checking of the rear quarters is in place, but mainly you want to be investigating the front.
Consider having one helicopter available to detach from the main group and perform an independent search of sectors outside of the main formation, since your are aggressively searching for submarines which we will discuss in the next section called *Patrols*
Fixed Wing:
With regards to planes, of the few types there are that operate from seaborne vessels that are ASW capable, they should be used and operated in much the same way as helicopters. Except of course you have a much longer range to play with and more sonobuoys can be deployed in most cases. Meaning you can use them to maintain their patrol sector for much longer and provide better coverage for their patrol area.
A plus side to fixed wing aircraft is they are better able to intercept a contact because of their high speed, they are also capable of dropping potentially more torpedoes onto the target coupled with being able to stay on station and track the target for longer reduces the chance of the contact getting away.
However do note it is very useful if you have ASW aircraft based at airfields close to the sea to use them in the formation editor you can push the patrols out to the formation maximum distance of 255nm which gives you a degree of flexibility when it comes to automating the process.
Be careful when using the formation editor however, try not to assign the fixed wing ASW aircraft to stations that are too large or you will find you get a very poor coverage of sonobuoys and a less specific search. At least while they are in formation at distance they can be split from the group with ease and sent to assist elsewhere, since they have such a long range.
Consider the possibility also of having them emit with their radars while they are searching, there is the chance you can catch a diesel submarine snorkelling or at periscope depth, while these occurrences are rare, every possible course of action should be taken to increase the chance of picking up the intruder.
Other than this there is not much to be said for fixed wing aircraft that was not covered in the above section about helicopters.
Submarines:
Submarines are seldom part of a surface group formation, unless it is large or very valuable, such as a CVBG for example.
When you do use your submarines in this manner you will want to keep them towards the outer reaches of your formation ring, their passive sonar suites are in most cases much more powerful than that of their surface counterparts, coupled with their ability to dive to deeper depths to increase the effectiveness of their passive sonar sets.
The main problem comes however when you wish them to move with a high speed group, this creates a problem because you are effectively making the submarine more noisy and also less likely to *hear* a stalking enemy, while within the cover of the battle group your submarine may be somewhat safe from attack by surface ships or aircraft, it is still well open to attack by enemy submarines.
Consider slowing down your high speed group at times to give the submarines and other ASW assets a chance to *listen* for underwater threats. Most towed arrays are rendered virtually useless at speeds above 15 knots and these are the most powerful passive sensors available to a submarine.
I personally find that submarines are far better employed when used as an independent unit scouting the area around the group the submarine is supposed to be travelling with."
I hope to have this document finished soon, but its going slowly as there are so many points I want to include and I want to get it right
No problem for the help Mark, its our pleasure to answer questions the best we can
its important to see people enjoying the game and wanting to know more!!I too play SC\DW and alot of what applies there applies here, only since HCE covers a larger field of combat than submarines some things are more abstract
Please you are enjoying the experience!!
Cheers
