What´s this pictures history?

[histgamer]

No match might be a streach... it is a far better plane however both being as modern as they are and the way dogfights would occur if the pilots of the Su-30 were resonably trained its not like the Typhoon wouldnt suffer losses. If I had to guess I would say all things being equal apart from the aircraft a 5-1 or 4-1 kill ratio in favor of the Typhoon. That said its unlikely unless the UK or any other nation using Typhoons went up against Russia (who doesnt even look to make the Su-30 their front line fighter, that will be some 5-10 years down the road when they plan to introduce a new fighter somewhat like the F-22 though they claim it will be more modern... if they ever manage to fun the damn thing) back to my point odds are the Su-30 pilots would be far inferrior as far as training goes so its somewhat of a moot point.

[DuckofTindalos]

Yeah, like I said... No match...[8|]

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

... It is possible that this picture is both fake and actual combat. The two Japanese troops and the explosion in it could be from an actual combat picture and when they went to put it on billboards in Tokyo they added a dirt foreground with an American flag laying on it. That is a possibility too.

I think Ike is close, but no cigar.

As a former combat photographer, I would say that the background explosion is real, and a fake foreground -- including soldiers and "prop" flag -- was superimposed over it, then reshot in a portrait orientation. Prior to Photoshop, that would be the simplest way to create this effect.

So unless someone discovers some hard evidence to the contrary, it would certainly be a relief if this was the end of this particular thread, considering all the clones it has inspired.

[Knavey]

Going to stay out of the more controversial points on this thread but point out something about filmakers that I noticed the other day.
 
Saving Private Ryan...remember the scene after Tom Hanks squad had moved off the beach and into the bunker area?  There is a clip of some German soldiers running right in front of the US soldiers...crossing the T so to speak but without noticing them.  Powerful camera angle showing how close danger can be without you realizing it.  IIRC, the US soldiers gunned them down.
 
Now, look at this film of actual footage from Tarawa.  Supposedly the only footage out there that has both combatants in the same frame. (not sure if this is true or not).  Go to around the 8 minute mark and it will happen at 8:40.
 
http://www.archive.org/details/WiththeMarinesatTarawa
 
This actual footage is remarkabley similar to the one used in Private Ryan except of course, SPRs footage is a bit more clear.
 
Just interesting since we were talking about war footage.

[Ike99]

Knavey-Now, look at this film of actual footage from Tarawa. Supposedly the only footage out there that has both combatants in the same frame. (not sure if this is true or not).

Now I can say Knavey that this is not true...definatively.[;)]

In the fighting on Tarawa the combat photographer was the first one to capture Japanese and American troops actually fighting each other in the same frame. When the Japanese are running from the blockhouse IIRC.

A few other clips stick out in my mind from different places and later in the war. One where a Japanese runs to the top of a sort of ravine and throws down bomb to some Americans.

Another where a Japanese is hiding in a ditch on the side of a road. He gets up, exposes himself and starts running and the Americans starts shooting at him.

The most graphic scene I have seen is some Americans shoot a flame thrower into a dug in bunker like position. A Japanese comes out with his uniform all burnt up and skin. He looks into the camera a second and then starts to run and they shoot him.

I think I have some of these in my collection. If I can´t find them somewhere on the net already uploaded I´ll post them on youtube.

[Ike99]

Here is a clip I found real quick. I don´t know how many have seen this one so I post it here.

It´s a Japanese pilot who surviived his crash, a US ship, looks like a DD or something moves along side him to pick him up. He pulls out a grenade and kills himself.

Just so everyone knows this video is a bit graphic. So watch at your own discrection.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=WdHezBN5mBE

[AW1Steve]

Now as you can see from what I have actually said Steve I was undecided before and am still undecided. Are the two soldiers actually fighting from somewhere with a foreground added? Is the whole picture staged somewhere including the explosion in background or is that ¨real¨ and the two soldiers staged...etc, etc, etc.

As tocaff said, show a bolt and a piece of railing from a ship and someone will tell you the ships name, when it was launched, commisioned and sunk.

Show a picture of two Japanese soldiers, no one has a clue. So this picture is a bit of an enigma it seems.

I have no problem someone coming up with ¨We won´t stop shooting!¨ Filmed backlot B, Tokyo studios 1942. Ref. Book ¨X¨. But as this picture is certainly a dramatic one, for me at least, I would like to know where it comes from and how. Certainly the answer is out there as I´m sure it has been published somewhere.


[:)]OK, Ike , I can except this. Of course the reason we can ID the railing is because so many sets of eyes in the forum have seen the photo , or the railing , or are familiar with some aspect of the case. What we need here is a Japanese speaking , cinematography expert. We have been trying to judge the photo based on the experince we have in the forum. We have a former combat photographer , several private photographers , some people who are very knowledgable about WW2 in the Pacific, and some people who have spent a LOT of time looking at world war 2 photos. While this experince base might give us a good "feel" for the photo , we just don't have the experince base to declare "proof" in one form or the other , until someone can stand up and say , "I took that photo in 19-- at -- with this type of lense and for -------- (this group or organization.). Till then , we won't have, can't have , and shouldn't expect to have adefinative answer. As a favorite college professor of mine used to say "Needs more research". [:)]

[Knavey]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

Here is a clip I found real quick. I don´t know how many have seen this one so I post it here.

It´s a Japanese pilot who surviived his crash, a US ship, looks like a DD or something moves along side him to pick him up. He pulls out a grenade and kills himself.

Just so everyone knows this video is a bit graphic. So watch at your own discrection.

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=WdHezBN5mBE

Ouch.

Interesting about the grenade. Did they typically carry these on kamikaze missions in case they ditched or could not find the target?

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

... I have no problem someone coming up with ¨We won´t stop shooting!¨ Filmed backlot B, Tokyo studios 1942. Ref. Book ¨X¨. But as this picture is certainly a dramatic one, for me at least, I would like to know where it comes from and how. Certainly the answer is out there as I´m sure it has been published somewhere.

... I´m sure many people now have searched for this pictures record now. I don´t think anyone here is going to be able to find out where it came from anyways.

Ike, try this link:

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-is ... unit-2.htm

Here's what I found on the lower right hand side:

THE JAPANESE HOME FRONT AT WAR

By the summer of 1945, American land, air, and naval forces had finally arrived on the doorstep of the home islands. B-29s of the Twentieth Air Force were systematically destroying Japan's ability to wage war. The submarine campaign and aerial mine laying operations had cut lines of supply and communication.

After the fall of Okinawa, the Japanese people waited in their island fortress, prepared to repulse the enemy on the beaches. Even as their deteriorating situation was increasingly undermining their ability to resist, surrender remained unthinkable, and the war had considerable popular support.

Tokyo street scene, 1943. The advertising slogan beneath the Japanese soldiers on the billboard reads, "We won't stop shooting!"

Courtesy of Asahi Shimbun

(Note: Asahi Shimbun is Japan's national news newspaper)

[JWE]

Mission accomplished. I will no longer participate in these forums so long as pathetic little pissants like you are allowed to post your juvenile bile. Don’t bother to respond, because I won’t be accessing these forums any longer. I doubt many people will care much, but I just don’t give a rat’s ass anymore. Out.

[Doggie]

Nitpicking:



This is a photo of an F4U-5N belonging to a night fighter squadron in Korea, not Okinawa.

[decaro]

Yes Doggie, I know, but I needed a small, color shot of a Corsair flying right to left (into my text) that wasn't copyrighted, and this Wiki public domain photo fit the bill.

The Corsair earned the nickname "The Angel of Okinawa" and/or "The Sweetheart of the Mariannas." I didn't mean to suggest that it was the actual name of the plane in the photo.

Sharp eyes to pick that out, though.

[tocaff]

Amazing how this thread gets into Venezuela's and Argentina's aircraft and the Falkland Islands from a photo over 60 years old.  Yes, it's Falkland Islands to those of us not native to South America and there is nothing inferred or intended to offend in using that name.  

[Ike99]

JWE-Mission accomplished. I will no longer participate in these forums so long as pathetic little pissants like you are allowed to post your juvenile bile. Don’t bother to respond, because I won’t be accessing these forums any longer. I doubt many people will care much, but I just don’t give a rat’s ass anymore. Out.

I have had enough of this FVcking bullsh!t. FVck this.

Everyone want to know what this is about. This is about their little MADCOW gang of forum thugs and bullies trying to run other peoples off the forums. I took a little stroll today over there and had a look.

MADCOW is nothing more than a GQdamn ¨HATESITE¨ as hate thrives over there and they openly talk about running people off the forums.

Run me off MVtherFVcker? Try Me!

Shame on Matrix for even being connected with such a site.

Scrolling through the topics in just 10 minutes I was shocked at what I saw....and I QUOTE!!!

Abu Ghareb-I think it is possible that the pictures are faked. If that is true, then alot of people are being harmed over rumour. Not that I dont think US troops dont commit abuses, but I am fairky certain they are NOT stupid enough to leave a photographic record.

This very mutherfVcker is on this very thread calling me stupid and a troll for even asking about this picture and he said the Abu Ghareb pictures are fake!

You Fascist B@stard! And the hate doesn´t stop there!!

the Brits better realize real quick that all these guys respect is strength.
1) Never appologize
2) Never back down
Next time they provoke you, kick their fricken towel wearing, jibberish yammering, tribal thinking asses back to Iran with their tail between their legs.

And it just gets better and better over there with this gang of MADCOW TRYING TO PLY THEIR SHIT HERE! What do they say about my own country?!

Its election time in the Economic Basket Case of Argentina, they need to rabblerouse some. Exactly the same reason why Galtieri invaded the first time around. Typical dodgy banana republic prop up the home support stuff.

And there are many more like this about my own country and many others countries.

This is HATE, HATE, HATE and superiority complex horsesh!t

And this HATE is not spilling over onto this forum? Without a doubt it is!

Huhh! Torture!

Waterboarding is not torture. It is an extremely effective psychological form of interrogation. It's physical aspects may include forceably holding or shackling the person to a board and the administration of water such that the person believes he is drowning, but it's effects are very short lived.

Waterboarding is not torture? You dumb SOB. You forgot to mention you can easily drown someone doing it or send them into cardiac arrest not to mention the mental aspects of it.

The ignorance displayed over there baffles.

I wouldn't doubt if there is way worse done at various college hazings. Hell, back in the good old days of high school football we used to tape guys to the goalpost damn near naked, and leave 'em there in the sun with all them skeeter's for company.

Matrix Games. If these people want to have their little hate filled far right wing superiority site over there I do understand you can do nothing about it.

BUT you can, and need to get this sh!t under control and stop it from spilling over onto this site.

Now do that or ban me. One or the other but I do not have to, and will not tolerate this.

[AW1Steve]

[:)] Nice try Ike. But the one thing I learned from my try at "peace-making " on this thread , is some people like acting like rabid dogs. They are only looking for someone to bite. [:(]

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

[:)] Nice try Ike. But the one thing I learned from my try at "peace-making " on this thread , is some people like acting like rabid dogs. They are only looking for someone to bite. [:(]

You're not a peacemaker, you just masquerade as such. What you are is a s**t-stirrer.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

[:)] Nice try Ike. But the one thing I learned from my try at "peace-making " on this thread , is some people like acting like rabid dogs. They are only looking for someone to bite. [:(]

You're not a peacemaker, you just masquerade as such. What you are is a s**t-stirrer.

[:)] Right . You can see it all over the forum. I'll let what I've said and done be judged by people who read what I've written. If you honestly feel that about me , please feel free to green button me. It's to the upper left of this box , right next to the "buddy button" Have a nice day.[:)]

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

[:)] Nice try Ike. But the one thing I learned from my try at "peace-making " on this thread , is some people like acting like rabid dogs. They are only looking for someone to bite. [:(]

You're not a peacemaker, you just masquerade as such. What you are is a s**t-stirrer.

[:)] Right . You can see it all over the forum. I'll let what I've said and done be judged by people who read what I've written. If you honestly feel that about me , please feel free to green button me. It's to the upper left of this box , right next to the "buddy button" Have a nice day.[:)]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you've been sincerely trying to "make peace", then you're just really, REALLY bad at it.

So please don't take peacemaking up professionally. Your efforts would likely end in a nuclear exchange.

[Mac67]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

[:)] Nice try Ike. But the one thing I learned from my try at "peace-making " on this thread , is some people like acting like rabid dogs. They are only looking for someone to bite. [:(]

You're not a peacemaker, you just masquerade as such. What you are is a s**t-stirrer.

I disagree. Steve is a decent guy. At least he is prepared to talk, unlike certain other posters. You have to bear in mind that he is pretty new here and is not aware of the long standing aminosity between some people here and MCS. The only thing that you can accuse him of is being naive in thinking that he could pour oil on troubled waters. Some people here are never going to let that happen.

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Mac67

I disagree. Steve is a decent guy. At least he is prepared to talk, unlike certain other posters. You have to bear in mind that he is pretty new here and is not aware of the long standing aminosity between some people here and MCS. The only thing that you can accuse him of is being naive in thinking that he could pour oil on troubled waters. Some people here are never going to let that happen.

I have no problem believing Steve's a decent guy. Most everybody here is. I can even see how somebody might not realize the gigantic can of worms they were opening. So I'll accept the above at face value and give Steve the benefit of any lingering doubt. It would be really great if the nice folks here could do the same for those that happen to frequent MCS.

I still say he should not take up peacemaking as a vocation.

You on the other hand...