Interesting sub behavior

[MarkShot]

I just noticed that when subs are combined with other subs in a group and you order the group to creep, you get lots of subs moving at high speeds as they attempt to adjust their position within the formation. I am not sure this is such a great idea.

Comments? Thanks.

[JudgeDredd]

The same thing happens for surface fleets...regardless of what speed you've ordered your surface fleet, when you issue orders to change formation, they proceed at full speed.

A big no-no in both cases. They should stay at the ordered speed (I would presume in most cases staying undeteced is more important than getting into formation faster). I don't know if it's possible to allow the user to set the speed of an individual unit when ordering it in a formation or not. I know it's not now...but if it can be added, great. Otherwise, I vote for formation changes to occur at the current formation speed.

I have lost an awful lot of surface ships (in all my battles) and sometimes I wonder if it's because I forgot about this issue and gave away my position (nearly all the time I'm taken out by an unidentified sub) by ordering a formation change.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I just noticed that when subs are combined with other subs in a group and you order the group to creep, you get lots of subs moving at high speeds as they attempt to adjust their position within the formation. I am not sure this is such a great idea.

Comments? Thanks.

While it probably isn't the best idea, anytime you make adjustments to groups in formation editor, the AI will attempt to carry out those orders as quickly as possible. Most ships will go to cruise speed to report to their new patrol zones. Not ideal, but it is working as it should.

[JudgeDredd]

Well, working as it should it might be, but I think it needs fixing.

Jeez, I give the AI enough of an advantage with being crap at the game without the game being crap for me! [:D]

Seriously though, it seems counter-intuitive in a cat and mouse game of stealth where detection is death to have ships re-organise at full speed in a formation.

If they couldn't program it so the user was able to set the speed of the unit whilst changing formation (and have the unit return to formation speed when at it's location) then I'd prefer for it to be sensible and say "OK, I'm creeping for a reason, so lets not invite any unwanted guests to the party by going at full speed to point B"

Fix required pls.

[Divefreak]

ORIGINAL: Shark7



the AI will attempt to carry out those orders as quickly as possible. Most ships will go to cruise speed to report to their new patrol zones. Not ideal, but it is working as it should.

Definitly not a bug. but something worth to but some work in for an enhancement....

In reality no single Ships will go on Flank speed to reach a position. They would use full speed or as much as additional speed needed to reach the new position. Flank(1) won´t be used because of unnesscesary noise, fuel consumption, stress on the ship due to seastate/weather.


(1) except to face an incomming threat.

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Divefreak
In reality no single Ships will go on Flank speed to reach a position. They would use full speed or as much as additional speed needed to reach the new position. Flank(1) won´t be used because of unnesscesary noise, fuel consumption, stress on the ship due to seastate/weather.
(1) except to face an incomming threat.

Tell that to the folks trying to fix the Arleigh Burkes' hull buckling problems. [:'(]

Truth is, its not a good idea to combine subs in groups. It compromises their stealth and thereby degrades their strongest advantage.

[JudgeDredd]

CV32

Glad you are here, because I do think this needs addressing. I think it's rather silly to have a ship move faster than the speed designated for the group to change formation. Ideally, the user should have the ability to order a faster speed for the reason mentioned above (an emergency screening)...but a general formation change should be at the speed designated for the formation...imo.

Also, the matter is confused it seems. Markshot was not commenting on mixed formations...he was talking about subs grouped together. I merely mentioned that I have had the same thing in surface groups. In both scenarios, I think the speed of the unit changing formation should stay at the speed of the formation.

[MarkShot]

Yes, a few points:

(1) I was talking about all sub groups.

(2) There are, in fact, some game scenarios which are designed with sub groups. I know everything is a group in HCCE. So, I mean a sub group having 2 or more subs.

(3) I haven't looked at H3, but I remember the manuals for H3 read that a formation will slow down while its members get into position. HCCE behavior seems to be more that members will speed up in order to get into position.

(4) There are scenarios with 25 subs, it seems. A bit of hassle not to be able to group those subs and treat them as a formation.

---

I don't want to leak spoilers, but this scenario and the sub groups was really weird. Some of the groups actually had members that were hundreds of miles part (by virtue of the scenario design). I am not sure how it got this way, but it effectively means that when you check individual members in the unit window that you found some subs in the scenario making a steady best speed of 19kts for days despite the group itself being set to creep at 5kts.

[Divefreak]

Tell that to the folks trying to fix the Arleigh Burkes' hull buckling problems. [:'(]

Maybee they are so weak, they even can´t stand full speed? [8D]


[X(][8|][:D][;)]

[Divefreak]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I think it's rather silly to have a ship move faster than the speed designated for the group to change formation. ...but a general formation change should be at the speed designated for the formation...imo.

That won´t work.

If you order a ship in frot of the group there are two posibilitys to get it there.

1. make the group slower
2. make the unit faster

2. is imho OK, but the Amount of time/speed needed to reach the new destination is questionable. [8D]

Regards René

[JudgeDredd]

Quite [&o]

However, in the particular instance I am speaking of, I had 3 ships in a line and one in front. one of my helos detected a sub to the extreme left, so I ordered my ship to move further out. Rightly or wrongly isn't in question. What is in question is the fact that the particular unit carried out the order at full speed and was quickly sunk. Whether that was due to detection because of the speed is unclear, but that's what I'm being told anytime I've posted on here when I've mentioned moving a ship at full speed and losing it, in or out of formation.

As for moving ahead in a formation, yes...the unit would have to speed up, but I would suggest at a minimum of "the next level" to prevent detection where possible.

Lest we forget, is the issue here not that travelling at full speed announces your position? Does it really make sense to move a unit at flank speed when changing a formation?