General Device Update 5, 6 & 7.788 Comprehensive Uploaded

[el cid again]

We have learned something astonishing:

range has no meaning for AAA combat in WITP code!

So we will convert all DP and AA devices to horizontal range for surface combat - since that is what code thinks range is for.

To this we will add some AAA inconsistency eratta or new data - and some minor air group eratta (you see two units you never get in CVO or BBO families as Allies - they should not appear at all) - and likely some other eratta too small to remember.

General update for all this in a day or so.

[1EyedJacks]

Hi El Cid,

Are you saying that in RHS you can shoot down aircraft at high altitude with low caliber AAA?

[el cid again]

Fortunately not.

Further - note that I am talkinag about WITP in all forms - not RHS per se.

AAA looks at altitude. IF a target is above the ceiling - a given AA device will NOT engage it. If below - the device MAY engage it - depending I suppose on various things - like is the target detected? - but range is not one of the tests - ever - period.

It appears that sea targets are point targets - engaged by half the total devices in a unit or task group - except those without sufficient ceiling do not engage. But land targets are area targets, and all the devices engage - again except those without sufficient ceiling. There is never a range test, ever, period.

I rationalize this to say that if a target is within the ceiling limit - it also is within the range limit as RHS defines it (range = ceiling / 3000). But this is a semi-abstract model - sort of like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle - the location of the air target and the AAA units are not really exactly known.

The changes contemplated matter ONLY for surface targets. For example, a British AA cruiser with 5.25 inch guns may engage surface targets at 24,000 yards - up 50% from 16,000 yards. That is the only big difference I see so far.

This means that super heavy AA is not effective at range - because it has no range. Still unclear is the impact of effect?
Working on it.

[el cid again]

One interesting change: barrage balloon "range" is now set to zero. This prevents the devices (one land, one sea) from being used against surface targets. They only have ceiling - 5029 feet - which is the exact value for US ones.

Another is that I decided to increase the range of .50 cals to 2 (vice 1) - to distinguish the value of a .50 in both naval and land combat from the .30. While both have ranges in thousands of yards, their effective ranges are much less. And WITP land combat only has four ranges: 0, 1, 2 and 3. Setting the .30 at 1 and the .50 at 2 seems best. The .30 also has a significant theoretical AAA ceiling - but not a practical one - so it remains at 2000 feet (also meaning I didn't have to change the device). Since most .50s were manually controlled, I think an additional penalty is justified - but settled for half. Again - the real intent here is to show that a .50 is much more suitable in light AAA than in a .30 is - but the latter isn't quite useless.

20 mm Orilkons (there are other 20 mm) were increased to 7000 feet - the absolute ceiling was also about 10,000 feet -
but the real change is to range - which is now 4000 yards. Even that is very conservative - and done so it won't actually outrange the Bofors 40 mm - which remains at 4000 yards - and 12,000 feet ceiling - due to ammunition (rather than ballistic) considerations. Even so, under a revised AA rating system, one can see this weapon is better than a French (Japanese licenced) 25 mm - which in theory ought to be better.

[el cid again]

Two classes of US minesweepers had minor errors (once I realized they are two ship units) - in all RHS variations - so these will be fixed.

A 47mm AA gun in the data set was fictional - and used only by Soviet ships - so it is converted to a Soviet 45 mm AA weapon that is not fictional.

Some devices have been renamed to make it more clear where they came from. Others have this data in the notes on the RHS AA Devices Table - not yet issued.

[el cid again]

Anti-Aircraft Guns
Caliber: Shell Weight Effect Accuracy Range Ceiling Volume Theory WITP Surface Allied Axis Service Device Name Notes
Device # Device Name milimeters inches kg lbs Note 10 AAA AAA Rating

1. Light AA Guns
69 25mm Type 96 AA Gun 25 0.984 0.25 0.55 6 10 8 12 201 20.1 1.2 0.05 No Yes IJN, VFN 25mm Type 96 AA Gun Accuracy derated 50% due to loading rate.
74 1.1 inch Mark 1 AA Gun 29.7 1.1 0.416 0.917 6 10 7 13 256 25.6 1.3 0.04 Yes No USN 1.1 inch Mark 1 AA Gun Accuracy derated from 19 due to jamming.
75 & 403 .50 Browning M2 MG 12.7 0.5 0.0454 0.1 7 10 2 4 7 0.7 0.4 0.01 Yes Yes Most .50 Browning M2 MG
76 & 404 20mm Oerlikon AA Gun 20 0.787 0.1231 0.2720 5 26 4 7 40 10.4 1.8 0.05 Yes Yes Most 20mm Oerlikon AA Gun
77 & 399 .30 Medium AAMG 7.62/7.7 0.3 0.0098 0.0215 3 50 1 2 1 0.5 1.0 0.02 Yes Yes Most .30 Medium AAMG
79 13.2mm Hotchkiss AAMG 13.2 0.52 0.0518 0.114 4 7 2 4 7 0.5 0.3 0.01 No Yes IJN 13.2mm Hotchkiss AAMG Accuracy derated 55% due to loading rate.
80 12.7mm Vickers AAMG 12.7 0.5 0.0376 0.083 4 14 2 4 7 1.0 0.6 0.01 No Yes IJN 12.7mm Vickers AAMG
82 DP Short Gun [Any] 120 4.724 13 28.7 29 80 5 9 85 6.8 0.3 1.16 Yes Yes Many DP Short Gun [Any] Based on 12 cm short gun.
84 4.7 inch AA Rocket 120 4.724 19.1 42.1 6 7 0 3 3 0.2 0.2 - Yes Yes Most 4.7 inch AA Rocket
271 7.7mm Type 92 AAMG 7.62/7.7 0.3 0.0098 0.0215 3 45 1 2 1 0.4 0.9 0.01 No Yes IJA, IJN 7.7mm Type 92 AAMG
272 Twin 13.2mm AAMG 13.2 0.52 0.0518 0.114 4 10 2 4 7 0.7 0.4 0.01 No Yes IJN Twin 13.2mm AAMG Accuracy derated 55% due to loading rate.
273 Triple 25mm AA Gun 25 0.984 0.25 0.55 6 17 8 12 201 34.2 2.0 0.08 No Yes IJN, VFN Triple 25mm AA Gun Accuracy derated 50% due to loading rate.
278 20mm Type 98 AA/AT Gun 20 0.787 0.136 0.5930 7 10 5 8 60 6.0 0.8 0.04 No Yes IJA 20mm Type 98 AA/AT Gun
311 Ko Go 20mm AA Tank 20 0.787 0.136 0.5930 7 10 2 8 60 6.0 0.8 0.01 No Yes IJA Ko Go 20mm AA Tank Tactical land combat range given.
402 Twin .30 AAMG 7.62/7.7 0.3 0.0098 0.0215 4 50 1 2 1 0.5 1.0 0.02 Yes No Many Twin .30 AAMG
400 Quad .30 AAMG 7.62/7.7 0.3 0.0098 0.0215 6 50 1 2 1 0.5 1.0 0.03 Yes No Many Quad .30 AAMG
415 Twin .50 AAMG 12.7 0.5 0.0454 0.1 7 14 2 4 7 1.0 0.6 0.02 Yes No Many Twin .50 AAMG
465 Quad .50 M1 AAMG 12.7 0.5 0.0454 0.1 7 20 2 4 7 1.5 0.8 0.03 Yes Yes Most Quad .50 M1 AAMG

2. Medium AA Guns The RHS Medium AAA scale is 10 Light AAA points per Medium AAA point]
67 Sea Barrage Balloon na na na na 100 500 0 5.029 15 7.4 25 - No Yes RN, USN Sea Barrage Balloon Always 6 devices per unit
70 & 408 40 mm Bofors AA Gun 40 1.575 0.894 1.97 13 13 4 12 201 2.6 2 0.1 Yes Yes Most 40 mm Bofors AA Gun
71 45mm/46 AA Gun 47 1.85 1.497 3.3 7 13 10 12 201 2.6 2 0.1 No Yes SN 45mm/46 AA Gun
73 40mm 2 pounder AA Gun 40 1.575 0.674 1.684 7 13 7 13 256 3.3 2 0.1 Yes Yes Many 40mm 2 pounder AA Gun Vickers
78 37mm M1935 AA Gun 37 1.457 0.831 1.83 6 11 9 13 256 2.8 1 0.1 Yes Yes FFN, VFN 37mm M1935 AA Gun
398 Land Barage Balloon na na na na 100 500 0 5.029 15 7.4 25 - Yes Yes US, JAP Land Barage Balloon Allies/Axis 18/12 devices per company
406 37mm M1939/61-K AA Gun 37 1.457 0.775 1.709 6 17 9 13 256 4.3 2 0.1 Yes No USA, SA 37mm M1939/61-K AA Gun
407 Twin 2 pounder AA Gun 40 1.575 0.674 1.684 7 18 7 13 256 4.6 2 0.1 Yes Yes Many Twin 2 pounder AA Gun Vickers

3. Heavy AA Guns and DP Guns [The RHS Heavy AAA scale is 100 Medium AAA points OR 1000 Light AAA points per Heavy AAA point]
10 5 in/50 3 Year Type 127 5 27 59.5 51 85 20 32 3813 3 27 9 No Yes IJN 5 in/50 3 Year Type
41 6 in/55 M1930 152.4 6 54.17 119.4 119 85 29 30 3142 3 26 29 Yes No FFN 6 in/55 M1930
43 & 414 85 mm/53 KS-12 85 3.346 9.54 21 21 175 17 30 3142 5 53 6 Yes No USSR 85 mm/53 KS-12
45 4.7 in/40 Mark VIII 120 4.7 20.41 45 36 120 16 32 3813 5 38 7 Yes No RN 4.7 in/40 Mark VIII
47 5.25 in/50 Mark I 133 5.25 36.3 80 54 109 24 46.5 11699 13 51 14 Yes No RN 5.25 in/50 Mark I
48 5 in/40 Type 88 127 5 23 50.7 51 110 16 30.97 3456 4 34 9 No Yes IJN 5 in/40 Type 88
50 & 294 3.9 in/55 Type 98 100 3.937 13 28.7 29 180 21 42.65 9027 16 77 11 No Yes IJN 3.9 in/55 Type 98 On land only in EOS family.
51 3.9 in/50 Type 88 100 3.937 13 28.7 29 90 16 36.75 5775 5 33 4 No Yes IJN 3.9 in/50 Type 88
52 & 292 3 in/60 Type 98 76.2 3 5.99 13.2 13 215 12 29.85 3095 7 64 3 No Yes IJN 3 in/60 Type 98 On land only in EOS family. Note 9.
53 & 292 3 in/40 Type 88 76.2 3 5.99 13.2 13 165 11 23.6 1529 3 39 2 No Yes IJN 3 in/40 Type 88 On land only in CVO & BBO families
54 5 in/25 AA Short Gun 127 5 24.43 53.85 54 175 15 27.4 2393 4 48 14 Yes No USN 5 in/25 AA Short Gun Marks 10, 11 & 13
55 5 in/38 Mark 12 DP Gun 127 5 24.95 55 37 170 18 37.2 5990 10 63 11 Yes No USN 5 in/38 Mark 12 DP Gun
56 3 in/50 Mark 10 AA Gun 76.2 3 5.9 13 9 180 15 29.8 3079 6 54 2 Yes No USN 3 in/50 Mark 10 AA Gun
58 4.5 in Mk I to IV DP Gun 112.03 4.5 24.95 55 37 120 21 41 8019 10 49 9 Yes No RN 4.5 in Mk I to IV DP Gun
59 4 in Mark V DP Gun 101.6 4 14.06 31 21 175 16 31 3466 6 54 6 Yes No RN 4 in Mark V DP Gun
60 4 in Mark XVI DP Gun 101.6 4 15.88 35 23 120 20 39 6902 8 47 6 Yes No RN 4 in Mark XVI DP Gun
61 5 in/54 Mark 16 DP Gun 127 5 31.75 70 47 110 26 51 15434 17 56 13 Yes No USN 5 in/54 Mark 16 DP Gun Accuracy derated from 190 due to jamming.
62 3.9 in/45 M1930 AA Gun 100 3.937 14.9 32.96 22 100 17 32.28 3914 4 32 4 Yes Yes FFN, VFN 3.9 in/45 M1930 AA Gun
63 3.5 in/50 M1926 AA Gun 90 3.543 18 39.7 26 100 17 34.8 4904 5 35 4 Yes Yes FFN, VFN 3.5 in/50 M1926 AA Gun
64 3 in/50 M1922 AA Gun 75 2.95 12 26.5 26 150 15 32.8 4106 6 49 6 Yes Yes FFN, VFN 3 in/50 M1922 AA Gun
65 & 276 4.7 in/45 Types 3 & 10 120 4.724 20.41 45 45 110 16 32.8 4106 5 36 8 No Yes IJN 4.7 in/45 Types 3 & 10
66 & 411 3 in 20cwt AA Gun 76.2 3 7.94 17.5 18 130 13 25.5 1929 3 33 3 Yes No BA, RN 3 in 20cwt AA Gun
68 75 mm Bofors AA Gun 75 2.95 5.9 13 13 130 14 28 2554 3 36 2 Yes No Various 75 mm Bofors AA Gun
275 75 mm Type 88 AA Gun 75 2.95 6.5 14.3 14 120 15 23.78 1565 2 29 3 No Yes IJA 75 mm Type 88 AA Gun
294 120mm IJA Type 3 120 4.724 20.41 45 45 110 22 32.8 4106 5 36 11 No Yes IJN 120mm IJA Type 3
409 90mm M2A2 AA Gun 90 3.543 10.61 23.4 23 200 18 33.8 4493 9 68 8 Yes No USA 90mm M2A2 AA Gun
410 3 in/50 M4 AA Gun 75 76.2 5.85 12.9 13 225 14 22.6 1343 3 51 4 Yes No USA 3 in/50 M4 AA Gun
413 4.7 in M1 AA Gun 120 4.724 22.68 50 50 120 28 47.4 12391 15 57 17 Yes No USA 4.7 in M1 AA Gun
416 3.7 in/50 Mark 1 AA Gun 94 3.7 12.96 28.56 29 250 21 32 3813 10 80 15 Yes No BA 3.7 in/50 Mark 1 AA Gun
416 3.7 in/50 Mark 6 AA Gun 94 3.7 12.96 28.56 29 190 26 45 10603 20 86 14 Yes No BA 3.7 in/50 Mark 6 AA Gun
419 80mm Bofors AA Gun 80 3.14 6.36 14 14 130 14 28 2554 3 36 3 Yes No KNIL 80mm Bofors AA Gun
552 150 mm Type 5 AA Gun 149.1 5.9 45 99 99 80 29 50 14544 12 40 23 No Yes IJA 150 mm Type 5 AA Gun




4. Very Heavy AA Guns and DP Guns [The RHS Heavy AAA scale is 10 Medium AAA points OR 1000 Light AAA points per Heavy AAA point]
1 18.1 in/45 84 Year Type 460 18.11 1460 3219 2147 19 46 12 201 0.04 2 188 No Yes IJN 18.1 in/45 84 Year Type
2 16.1 in/45 3 Year Type 410 16.14 1020 2249 1500 28 42 11 155 0.04 3 176 No Yes IJN, IJA 16.1 in/45 3 Year Type
3 14 in/45 41 Year Type 355.6 14 673.5 1485 990 20 39 10 116 0.02 2 77 No Yes IJN 14 in/45 41 Year Type
4 8 in/50 3 Year Type 203.2 8 125.85 277.45 185 30 32 8 60 0.02 2 18 No Yes IJN, IJA 8 in/50 3 Year Type
5 & 314 6.1 in/60 3 Year Type 155 6.1 55.87 123.2 82 50 30 25 1818 0.91 13 12 No Yes IJN 6.1 in/60 3 Year Type
28 8 in/50 3 Mark VIII 203.2 8 116.1 256 172 55 31 26 2045 1.12 14 29 Yes No RN 8 in/50 3 Mark VIII
44 5.9 in/50 Quick Firing 149.1 5.9 46.7 103 69 40 21.3 21.3 1124 0.45 9 6 Yes No RNN 5.9 in/50 Quick Firing

Device Name Caliber: Shell Weight Effect Accuracy Range Ceiling Volume Theory WITP Surface Allied Axis Service Device Name Notes
milimeters inches kg lbs Note 10 AAA AAA Rating

Note 1: Except for Very Heavy DP guns, RHS AA gun range is ceiling divided by 3000, rounded to the nearest whole number.
Note 2: WITP Range is in thousands of yards.
Note 3: WITP ceiling is in thousands of feet. RHS uses effective ceiling rather than absolute ceiling.
Note 4: RHS uses effect = shell weight for HE and AA fragmentation type shells, but 2/3 of shell weight for all guns which have AP or SAP shells.
This is mainly for use in surface battles. For AA combat, larger effect values are probably meaningless: they will kill the target regardless.
The question that matters is: can the target be hit? The RHS AAA value scales the answer to this question objectively.
Note 5: RAN, RIN, RNZN, Commonwealth navies and RTN often use RN weapons.
Note 6: RTN often uses IJN weapons.
Note 7: Late war Soviet vessels often use USN weapons.
Note 8: 6 in/55 M1930 and 15 cm Type 5 AA Gun are true AA weapons vice Very Heavy AA weapons, and are rated as such.
Note 9: A battery of 4 is on land at Maizuru - but won't replace for technical reasons - in CVO and BBO families.
Note 10: The defended volume is pi (3.1416) times (ceiling/3000) squared times (ceiling/3000): assumes effective range = effective ceiling.



The number before the first Yes or No is a new surface combat rating value = effect x accuracy x range.
The number before that is a WITP AA value. It is ALWAYS on the same scale.
The number before that is a theoretical AAA value if volume and accuracy were the basis. It is indexed,
using different scales for light, medium and heavy AAA.

[el cid again]

I found bad data in the light AA weapons. These were generally overstated - so at last we have a category of AAA which is going to decrease in effectiveness. I used the actual round rates and average practical ROF - even where this is impacted by reloading mechanisms. I had to look at them anyway due to the range changes - all bigger than .50 cals get their actual horizontal range now. So their value in naval combat will be greater - which may matter in river battles.

Good news: effect is NOT used - so our super heavy AA guns are not skewed by it - whatever a display may say.

[el cid again]

Note a general pattern of superb AA guns for the Allies. In particular, the US 90mm M2 (which is a DP gun) and the 120 mm M1 are very high performers - and remained in service until about 1960. The late war 5 inch / 54 - even de rated due to reliability issues - is just about the finest gun of its class in the world. And so on.

The M1 was never in action - ever - anywhere in the world. It was deployed to PTO - barely. Panama and Hawaii - in 1942. I have managed to assign it to units which appear (and are immobile) in both locations in that year. It was produced in tiny numbers. Mainly used to defend industrial locations in the Eastern USA, 4 went to Northern Ireland - and no one knows why? It is thought to have been an error.

[el cid again]

We have new champions - first and second place for AA rating goes to the British 3.7s - Mark 1 and Mark 6 - respectively. You don't often think of them when you think of superb AAA!

[el cid again]

Since we now know that the very heavy AA do not use the effect values, I have added the Japanese 6.1 inch to the list- because it was used for VHAA at Sasebo, Kure and Tokyo. I also added three guns at the first two - and two at the last - to static coast defense units which won't move around.

Packaging to upload in the morning.

This will be a universal and comprehensive update. We will call it 7.788, 6.788 and 5.788 - to reflect the
device changes - which are fundamental - and affect ships and land units. There are also a few eratta -
and a couple of enhancements.

I managed to free up device slots (due to duplication) - and left them empty - for modders.

[el cid again]

All RHS Level 7 scenarios have been sent to the primary distribution list. They should post to the RHS site in due course.
Levels 5 and 6 will also update - tomorrow - because this is a fundamental change - giving more surface combat range to DP and AA weapons.

[el cid again]

All Level 6.788 scenarios have been uploaded to the primary distribution list.

[el cid again]

Level 5 scenarios uploaded at both 5.788 and 5.7881 level (the difference being a slightly revised air group file).

Levels 5 and 6 will not update again unless a major foundation change is required - as the device changes here.

Level 7 has no present plans to update nor identified issues.