How to delete a formation air patrol?

[MarkShot]

I have been doing tutorial #8. Once creating a patrol like an ASW|sonar patrol, I just do see any way to delete the patrol?

Thanks.

[roeddog]

mark,

go into mission >> edit mission >> "name of mission" and you can either delete specific a/c or the mission itself.

Jeff

[MarkShot]

That works for missions, but it doesn't seem to work for air patrols made within the structure of a formation.

In HC, there is an option in the formation editor for DELETE ASW PATROL.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[MarkShot]

VCDH,

Just to be sure I understand you. I need to save the game and then reload it with the scenario editor to do this?

<testing this myself now>

Okay, let me ask you this. Since the scenario editor appears to be full featured version of the game engine with just another menu option, is there any reason to simply not play the game under the Scenario Editor instead of Harpoon3.exe?

One other question ... when I do this SCRUB LAUNCHES does this apply to: the currently select group/unit, all groups/units for my side, or all groups/units for all sides?

Thanks for your time!

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[BurntFingers]

Alternatively...

... just turn all Formation Air Patrols off in the Game Preferences section. It means more work for the player but on the other hand it saves wasting air assets covering sectors that are populated with Formation Air Patrols.

I honestly cannot stand Formation Air Patrols. Take away too much player choice.

[MarkShot]

Dale,

Thanks for your answer. Yes, having all the missions for your side sitting in front of you would be a negative. This is one aspect of HCCE which I dislike, since it gives away way too much information before the game starts.

On the other hand, I have a workaround to the problem which you suggest:

(1) Launch the scenario in the game engine.

(2) Save the game.

(3) Reload the game and play it under the scenario editor.

Thus, all missions and orders are stripped, but you get the scrub mission capability. Additionally, another thing which I like is that you can lift the FOW at the end of a game. Most games tend to provide that as feature at the end so that you can take tally of what the final situation was.

Do you see any problems playing H3 this way?

Thanks.

BurntFingers,

I don't think that helps me, since the patrols I want to delete are ones which I created myself in the Formation Editor and not ones which were creaed by the designer or the AI. Thanks, anyway.

[kipallen]

I always disable "Formation Air Patrols" in the preferences. I agree with BurntFingers that it is a waste of air assets and takes away too much choice for the player.

[MarkShot]

I am not sure where the confusion is here.

I am talking about air patrols (not missions) which I set through the formation editor like an ASW patrol. An example of such a patrol is described in the final tutorial , #8.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that you disable automatic air patrols created on behalf of the player by the AI, but I am talking about manual ones which I create myself.

So, for example, I can create a mission and assign resources to it. I can also delete a mission and/or remove resources.

I can create a formation air patrol, but there is no mechanism to delete the patrol or remove resources from it. Do you see what I am talking about?

So, are you saying that simply don't send out ASW air patrols for your formation? Or are you saying that you manage your ASW air patrols by simply launching and plotting manually what your helos do? Or are you saying that you conduct ASW air patrols for your formations through creating missions and then consistently moving the missions as the SAG moves?

---

In fact, let me just ask the question that is really the issue for me here. There are numerous types of air patrol activities which are useful for the SAG or BG. Some examples are: ASW, AEW, and BARCAP patrols. How do you create and manage these things when playing H3? The formation editor gives me a quick and easy way to create these things, but leaves me with no way to modify or remove these things.

Thanks.

[Bucks]

Markshot,
I understand exactly what you mean and I believe I actually asked for this to be included when the Dev team was battling the Formation Air patrol issues we've just had. There is no simple button to press and delete the patrols you have already set. [:(]

I have found that the only way to fully delete the already set Formation Air Patrols, is to delete the formation... detach all units from the group formation you have made and at the same time the Formation Air Patrols will be deleted. It means you have to rebuild all your work but it does and is the only way to delete the air patrols you have already set.

Hope that helps

Darren

[MarkShot]

Bucks,

What are you thoughts as to clearing ownside missions by first loading the scenario in the Game Engine and then reloading it under Scenario Editor to continue play? This should allow the SCRUB air mission functionality only available in the Scenario Editor.

To have to completely break apart a group to get rid of its air patrols seems rather extreme and tedious. So, what do most players do? Do they simply not use air patrols? Or do they use air patrols and once set never adjust them? Or do they break a whole formation apart to shift one ASW patrol?

Thanks.

[Bucks]

I've just looked at this a little further and although there is no way to directly delete a Formation Air Patrol, there is a relatively easy way to remove the aircraft from the Patrol station.

Open the Mission menu and click "edit mission", look for the mission the aircraft are assigned to which should be the same as the mission the aircraft's parent vessel(s) are assigned to. Then simply unassign the aircraft assigned to that mission. This removes the available aircraft from the assigned patrol zone and allows you to reassign the aircraft to another mission. This doesn't remove the visible patrol zone from the formation editor, but it will allow you to reset the zone and reassign the aircraft concerned.

Cheers

Darren

Sorry I've ended up looking at this from the perspective of Scenedit (1st Post) and when using the standard Game executable (2nd Post).

[MarkShot]

I have been led to believe that if use mission editor to unassign the aircraft that the Game Engine will simply pull other aircraft which are on stand by to service the patrol.

Now, in many cases, that behavior is completely desirable. For example, I am doing my ASW patrol and all of sudden, there is a nearby contact due to a towed array which I would like to prosecute. So, I pull the nearest airborn asset to pounce on the passive contact before the zone of uncertainty has a chance to expand. In the meantime, the Game Engine launches a replacement for the patrol so as to not leave the SAG unprotected. Perfectly reasonable and desirable.

So, as I understand it, your proposal is not going to work if there are other aircraft which can be launched to fulfill the patrol.

Thanks.

[Bucks]

MarkShot,
Thanks for the questions I hope we can use these types of threads as a way to illuminate some of the idiosynchrascies the game has and may discourage players.

I decided to do a little testing for you just so we could clearly state exactly what happens in each of these cases. I've just built a test scenario and added a group of two ships consisting of an Invincible class carrier and a Type 42 DDG. I've added 16 x Sea Harrier FRS.2 and assigned them as follows:

4 x FRS2 assigned to Formation Air Patrol type - CAP.
8 x FRS2 assigned to an Air Intercept mission.
4 x FRS2 unassigned and sitting on/in the deck/hangar.

I started and then immediately saved the game while in Scenedit to ensure the missions were kept for my units and the already set Formation Air Patrol would maintain its integrity without any intervention on my part as to having to reset them. I've then opened the game using the Harpoon3.exe and continued with the scenario to check the results. I have unchecked the Staff assistance setting for Formation Air Patrols.

It would probably also be a good time to mention that aircraft can be individually unassigned from their patrol station by selecting the unit concerned and using the "D" - detach hotkey, leaving the unit unassigned and ready for your personal control.

Ok so the group is steaming along and since the 4 CAP aircraft are airborne, it's time to pull the 4 airborne aircraft from the CAP patrol and see if the engine uses the 4 unassigned aircraft to fill the now unpopulated Formation Air Patrol. I've ordered the 4 CAP aircraft back to the carrier and after the standard delay the engine is launching the unassigned aircraft to fill the vacant Formation Air Patrol. So yes MarkShot there seems to be no way of actually deleting the requirement for the Formation Air Patrol to be filled with relevant aircraft. I had even ensured that the engine would NOT make use of the staff assistant to manage Formation Air Patrols and yet it is populating a Formation Air Patrol ad infinitum while aircraft that are unassigned to any mission are available to launch.

I'd say the explanation for this is that there is no direct relationship between the aircraft that are unassigned and yet are being utilised by the Engine to populate Formation Air Patrols. On the other hand, aircraft or other units for that matter are physically linked to their assigned to mission and are in some way protected from this almost mindless requirement to fill a patrol zone even if the player no longer wants that zone to exist. At present even with the Staff Assistant setting turned off for formation air patrols, these patrols are going to be filled with unassigned aircraft. In other words a player can simply either not use Formation Air Patrols or if he does, accept the fact that any aircraft that are left on a carrier deck and are not assigned to a mission may launch uncontrollably and or without notice. Of course in this case it may appear to a player that he is actually missing aircraft since he's possibly not watching the Formation Window constantly.

What is really needed is a way within the formation editor to select a zone and delete it or and possibly easier for the coders would be to ensure that once a Zone has had the aircraft detached from it, it should simply cease to exist and hence be deleted even by other means than direct deletion.

Hope that's helpful

Darren

[MarkShot]

As I said, such behavior is reasonable for the case where the player reassigns AC already airborne.

Perhaps, the best solution is what HCCE has which is just to have as an option DELETE AIR PATROL.

Thanks for taking the time to investigate this in detail. Now, that the matter has been clearly elaborated perhaps a solution will appear in a subsequent patch.

[Bucks]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

As I said, such behavior is reasonable for the case where the player reassigns AC already airborne.

Perhaps, the best solution is what HCCE has which is just to have as an option DELETE AIR PATROL.

Thanks for taking the time to investigate this in detail. Now, that the matter has been clearly elaborated perhaps a solution will appear in a subsequent patch.

Mark

It's both my pleasure and refreshing to be able to answer questions with the quality of yours. Please feel free to raise any other issue(s) you have and I'll be more than happy to see what we can find out.

Cheers

Darren