Rules BUG: Enemy control of a fleet's port

[delatbabel]

EiA rules state:

6.2.6 ENEMY CONTROL OF A FLEET'S PORT: If a port in which a fleet is located becomes enemy-controlled, the fleet must be moved immediately ... into an adjacent sea area or the port's blockade box...
6.2.6.1: If the port is blockaded by an enemy fleet at the time, the fleet in the port is scuttled instead and all its fleets and ships are lost. Alternately, if desired, the blockaded fleet(s) may choose to fight the blockading fleet(s), with the wind gauge automatically going to the blockading fleet(s). The blockaded fleet(s) remains in the blockade box if it wins the combat. The blockaded fleet(s) must be scuttled if it loses the naval combat.
5.1.4.1: Each fleet "scuttled" that contains one or more ships causes the loss of "-1" political point (record on the POLITICAL STATUS DISPLAY on the Status Card). Removing a fleet that contains no ships costs no political points.

The EiANW rules state:

8.7 Enemy control of a port

If a port in which a fleet is located becomes enemy-controlled, the program will automatically attempt to evacuate the fleets in port before the next Naval Phase. In this case, the program will resolve the naval blockade battle without user input. ... The blockading fleet(s) remains in port box if it wins and the blockaded fleet(s) must be scuttled if it does not win the naval combat ...

Two points here:

* There is an inconsistency in that the power owning the fleet does not get a chance to scuttle the fleet(s) leaving the port rather than fight the naval battle. If I was France or Spain, with a fleet containing a single ship, facing Nelson and 120 ships in the blockade box, I would scuttle rather than fight and give GB +2PP (also remembering that fleets in the blockade box automatically get the wind gauge, and so even a fair fight is tilted in favour of the blockading fleet).

* More importantly, the EiA rules state that each time a fleet is scuttled that contains ships, -1 PP per fleet is lost. In other words, if you have two fleets in a port box that becomes enemy controlled, and you evacuate the port and elect to fight the battle in the blockade box, you are going to lose probably 4 PP, not 2 PP -- -2 PP for losing the fleet battle and *another* -2 PP for scuttling your fleet.

Having played this through, it appears that the program does not deduct the extra 2 PP for scuttling the fleet. I had Nelson and most of the GB fleet sitting outside Brest, which contained the two French fleets. I invaded Brest, took the town (why the AI player made no attempt to stop this is another question), and the french fleet was defeated in the blockade box battle. The combat resolution showed +3 PP for GB, and -2 PP for France, when it should have showed +3 PP for GB (+2 for the battle and +1 for Nelson) and -4 PP for France (-2 for losing the battle and -2 for scuttling the fleets).

I think that both the board game rules and the EiANW rules clearly state that the losing fleet has to be scuttled, and although the EiANW rules don't contain anything about scuttling fleets (at all) I think it should give the controlling player the option of scuttling the fleet rather than fighting the battle. Also since the EiA rules state that -1 PP per fleet is lost if a fleet is scuttled, that should either be reflected in the EiANW rules or stated as a variation in the FAQ.

[bresh]

Dont think you get -PP for scutling corps/fleet counters which are empty after combat. So depends how much you killed ?
 
Regards
Bresh

[Monadman]

Del,

For the sake of uniformity between PBEM and Solo play, the program required one or the other (fight or scuttle). The choice was to require fleets to fight when forced to evacuate a port and should they lose in battle then the PP cost of battle would be the only PP cost because the deviation no longer gave the player the options of the original rules: to fight or scuttle. We did not want to force a double cost on the player without the original option implemented. Now, this is a candidate for a standing order function but I’m pretty certain that there are still some programming issues involved but I will inquire.

As for actually stating the differences (variations) between the EiA and EiANW rules in the manual sorry; no, that would greatly increase the size of the manual (there are many). I will add this (because it bears repeating): EiANW is a combination of EiA, parts of EiH (OOB, map and some rules), and a boatload of deviations. For EiA veterans: whenever you come across what appears to be a contradiction to the EiA rules, check the EiANW rules first to see if it is a deviation, chances are that it is.

Thanks

Richard

[Jimmer]

Monadman:
 
I think it would be nice if there were an on-line booklet that outlined the deviations between the versions. You wouldn't have to print it, but just knowing would help us old-timers.

[Monadman]

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

Monadman:

I think it would be nice if there were an on-line booklet that outlined the deviations between the versions. You wouldn't have to print it, but just knowing would help us old-timers.

I hear you Jimmer but I have no time at the moment (maxed out). For now, you will need to rely on how it is written in the EiANW manual and if there are mistakes (that are not deviations) then the addendum that follows. Just know that these deviations were labored over (i.e. not taken lightly). Since the day I arrive on this project, the EiA rules as written were ALWAYS first and foremost considered, demanded and pleaded for. During beta, we could have argued over deviations forever and nothing would have gotten done. The game came along way from where it was December 2005 and to this day I still consider it as; a work in progress.

Richard

[Jimmer]

Are there any online copies of the original rules (and EiH's, etc.)? If so, perhaps those of us who are interested could write the paper on it. We wouldn't be able to explain WHY changes were made, but the actual changes could be outlined.

[Mynok]

I have the original game rules (both ADG's and AH's versions), but I do not have EiH.

[delatbabel]

EiA rules are available in several places on the net, google will probably help you with that.

EiH rules are only available to the yahoo group, which you must join before getting the files.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/eih/

[Jimmer]

OK. I'll take an action to do a rigorous comparison of the EIA original boxed rules (US version -- Sorry, mates!) against the EIANW rules.

[MarshallEllis]

FYI:Many of the deviations come from engine design limitations. These were simply issues that the original design did not address. I can vouch for Richard (And all the BETA testers) that no deviation was accepted without a debate on the importance. I'll always try to retain the EiA / EiH3.0 rule sets when coding.