RHSCVO Level 7 Observations

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I can move it. What is your version number?

RHSCVO 7.7883, I just brought it up, I don't wish to start over. Nor would my opponent, but to have it fixed for others.

[Mistmatz]

I ran witpload over scen70, it seems there are some inconsistencies between the classes and the ship file.
Two questions:
a) Is it right that the class file contains entries for classes that are not used with CVO?
b) Is witpload supposed to work with the RHS scanarios anyway? I'm trying to get the witpdecoder to work with RHS and this tool relies on the files generated by witpload.

[el cid again]

ALL RHS classes are in all scenarios - wether or not they are used.

I don't know about WITP load ? But don't believe error generation software. RHS will drive it nuts - for technical reasons.

[m10bob]

Upgrading RHS over the past year has been a lot of fun and given us a chance to push the envelope in different areas. We have (collectively) been able to sometimes bump that envelope.
Soon after upgrading to the most recent RHSCVO ver 7, I noticed something strange which I cannot guarantee related to the change in Pwhex file, but it did happen at the same time.
Several of my allied convoys stopped in mid ocean, in no areas affected by the new Pwhex file.
Each of these TF's retained their orders, (they still remembered their destination, home port, etc. Nonetheless, I had to manually give them each a shove,(as I found them) to get them going again.
Some were transport convoys but warships were affected as well.
Unfortunately, it affected both sides because the "death star" with a few Japanese CV's is also locked up in a single hex, and for at least 14 game days has been in the hex between the Celebes and Borneo, the hex on Cobra's map with the label "Palu"(sp?).

My internet carrier is AOhell, and every half hour or so I get that blasted "virus protection upgrade" message which interrupts the game. It is possible that may have thrown the monkey wrench into the works. I don't know, but in the past year, I have never had this problem before.
My Pwhex file is not corrupted, I have re-downloaded it 3 times and have the same results.
(I remember in past game trials getting ships stuck when we first began experimenting with those convoy "snaketrails" so I know the present problems are similar, but these ships stopped in mid ocean,(for the most part), with no reason to stop.

I am still having VERY serious problems with SBD 3/4 production which in the editor is marked for 11 monthly. This may be hard-coded. This has forced me to have 5 American flat-tops sitting around waiting for new SBD's, or sending them out with a complement of maybe 47/72 possible planes.
Yeah, I understand we have to wait for planes to be built, but with the PTO getting most of them, I KNOW the U.S. turned out more than one plane every 2 days.
This is just plain wrong.

Exchanging them for the Vultee is wrong (historically)..Besides, I don't know how I might do this.(Help?)[:)]

[witpqs]

m10bob,

I have seen various weirdness with TF's.

1) Mostly it's with transport TF's that have a destination set in mid-ocean then a home port different from where they left (a work-around way point). Sometimes they stop at the destination and sit there until given a shove as you say. Note that this never has happened with an empty TF, only those with cargo on board. Go figure. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

2) Very rarely I see a TF (any kind of TF) change it's destination, or it's home, or even teleport to a new (and usually dangerous) location. Thank goodness very rarely. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

3) The only time I see a TF get really stuck (the way you describe with KB) is that a mine-laying TF fleeing Singapore will get stuck in hex near Palembang, with the '9999' range thing. This is the only one that I have seen only in RHS. Sid looked over the Pwhex and it seems okay for the hex. I have no idea what gives.

I have seen other strange behavior that goes away when the program is closed down and then started again, so I know there's bugs in them there hills.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

m10bob,

I have seen various weirdness with TF's.

1) Mostly it's with transport TF's that have a destination set in mid-ocean then a home port different from where they left (a work-around way point). Sometimes they stop at the destination and sit there until given a shove as you say. Note that this never has happened with an empty TF, only those with cargo on board. Go figure. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

2) Very rarely I see a TF (any kind of TF) change it's destination, or it's home, or even teleport to a new (and usually dangerous) location. Thank goodness very rarely. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

3) The only time I see a TF get really stuck (the way you describe with KB) is that a mine-laying TF fleeing Singapore will get stuck in hex near Palembang, with the '9999' range thing. This is the only one that I have seen only in RHS. Sid looked over the Pwhex and it seems okay for the hex. I have no idea what gives.

I have seen other strange behavior that goes away when the program is closed down and then started again, so I know there's bugs in them there hills.

Thank you Witpqs......BTW, you are correct in assuming I use artificial waypoints, and for some of them that may be the answer, but not more than half..
Again, it might be that whole AOhell thing too, it messes up the game and I have to hit the button at the bottom to start the game graphics all over again ..
Still would appreciate if someone might tell me how I can use those Vultees in lieu of the "missing"([:@]) SBD's..[:)]

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Upgrading RHS over the past year has been a lot of fun and given us a chance to push the envelope in different areas. We have (collectively) been able to sometimes bump that envelope.
Soon after upgrading to the most recent RHSCVO ver 7, I noticed something strange which I cannot guarantee related to the change in Pwhex file, but it did happen at the same time.
Several of my allied convoys stopped in mid ocean, in no areas affected by the new Pwhex file.
Each of these TF's retained their orders, (they still remembered their destination, home port, etc. Nonetheless, I had to manually give them each a shove,(as I found them) to get them going again.
Some were transport convoys but warships were affected as well.
Unfortunately, it affected both sides because the "death star" with a few Japanese CV's is also locked up in a single hex, and for at least 14 game days has been in the hex between the Celebes and Borneo, the hex on Cobra's map with the label "Palu"(sp?).

My internet carrier is AOhell, and every half hour or so I get that blasted "virus protection upgrade" message which interrupts the game. It is possible that may have thrown the monkey wrench into the works. I don't know, but in the past year, I have never had this problem before.
My Pwhex file is not corrupted, I have re-downloaded it 3 times and have the same results.
(I remember in past game trials getting ships stuck when we first began experimenting with those convoy "snaketrails" so I know the present problems are similar, but these ships stopped in mid ocean,(for the most part), with no reason to stop.

I am still having VERY serious problems with SBD 3/4 production which in the editor is marked for 11 monthly. This may be hard-coded. This has forced me to have 5 American flat-tops sitting around waiting for new SBD's, or sending them out with a complement of maybe 47/72 possible planes.
Yeah, I understand we have to wait for planes to be built, but with the PTO getting most of them, I KNOW the U.S. turned out more than one plane every 2 days.
This is just plain wrong.

Exchanging them for the Vultee is wrong (historically)..Besides, I don't know how I might do this.(Help?)[:)]

Different issues here:

Convoys will tend to go to zero speed if out of gas - actually they move 1 hex per day I think - 0 in one phase and 1 in the other. Otherwise, damage can reduce speed to zero. And AI control is idiotic. If none of these apply - you should reinstall and then run the save game file. Corruption in the engine I bet.

RHS used a special algorithm for the SBD - you get 90% of half of the production for the duration of the period from start of production (or game) until the plane is upgraded (if it is). More than that is not warranted - and it is going to get worse in AE (and maybe WITP I if we get more attrition). It explains why we didn't do battle very often - until later we had planes to burn.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: witpqs

m10bob,

I have seen various weirdness with TF's.

1) Mostly it's with transport TF's that have a destination set in mid-ocean then a home port different from where they left (a work-around way point). Sometimes they stop at the destination and sit there until given a shove as you say. Note that this never has happened with an empty TF, only those with cargo on board. Go figure. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

2) Very rarely I see a TF (any kind of TF) change it's destination, or it's home, or even teleport to a new (and usually dangerous) location. Thank goodness very rarely. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

3) The only time I see a TF get really stuck (the way you describe with KB) is that a mine-laying TF fleeing Singapore will get stuck in hex near Palembang, with the '9999' range thing. This is the only one that I have seen only in RHS. Sid looked over the Pwhex and it seems okay for the hex. I have no idea what gives.

I have seen other strange behavior that goes away when the program is closed down and then started again, so I know there's bugs in them there hills.

Thank you Witpqs......BTW, you are correct in assuming I use artificial waypoints, and for some of them that may be the answer, but not more than half..
Again, it might be that whole AOhell thing too, it messes up the game and I have to hit the button at the bottom to start the game graphics all over again ..
Still would appreciate if someone might tell me how I can use those Vultees in lieu of the "missing"([:@]) SBD's..[:)]

Go to the unit. Click on the upgrade type. Select ANY type with enough planes. Make sure allow upgrades is set.
Go back to the unit screen and hit upgrade now. Except for a carrier unit - either it must be ashore - or it must be in a suitable port.

[m10bob]

Thank you Sid..(Confound me with logic!)..[:D]

[mlees]

I am playing CVO version 5, and I too see the (AI Japan) full KB death star "stuck" in a (shallow) sea hex 1 hex SE of Balikpapan. I can't sink it with LBA due to the Uber-CAP. It's been there for about a week now, while I regather more LBA to throw at it.

I may have to kick it loose under head-2-head mode, just to be fair. (I bet it's out of gas by now. Maybe getting low on sorties by now.)

By the way, three Illustrious class CV's teamed up with the Hermes are no match for the PH veterans. (I did score two torp hits on Shokaku though. [:'(])

[witpqs]

When the AI is in control I have seen KB just sit in one square, I've always presumed it was AI lack of I.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: mlees

I am playing CVO version 5, and I too see the (AI Japan) full KB death star "stuck" in a (shallow) sea hex 1 hex SE of Balikpapan. I can't sink it with LBA due to the Uber-CAP. It's been there for about a week now, while I regather more LBA to throw at it.

I may have to kick it loose under head-2-head mode, just to be fair. (I bet it's out of gas by now. Maybe getting low on sorties by now.)

By the way, three Illustrious class CV's teamed up with the Hermes are no match for the PH veterans. (I did score two torp hits on Shokaku though. [:'(])

OK - first mistake:

You can NOT play CVO vs AI. AI is not up to it.

It barely works for CAIO - and there is no Level 5 CAIO to work with - only Level 7.

There is, however, a AIO in version 5 - and since it is stronger - it helps AI by having more marbles in the pot.

I have no clue what AI is up to - but I have seen AI run KB right down to zero fuel - and that is a problem. AI is an idiot.


There is such a thing as AI - and we don't have it. True AI "learns" from the game. Ours is simply hard code modified by die rolls to create a "random decision" effect.

[m10bob]

FWIW, none of the convoys or TF's which I had to "jumpstart" were out of fuel.

[el cid again]

What was their destination? AI may have said "go there" - they did - and until it says "go somewhere else" - they are just obeying orders (so to speak). A HUMAN may say "go there" and mean it - for some reason. AI might do so for less reason - but it may have something in mind we don't understand. Maybe it is waiting for something don't know it is going to be coordinating with?

[Mistmatz]

In stock the US Army pilot pool experience from '41 to '46 evolves like this: 55-55-60-65-70-70.

In CVO they start with experience level 40 in '41. Does the experience develop like in stock from that number (+0,+5,+,5,+5,+0) or is there a different algorithm? If so where can I get the data, seems I lack the skill or the possibility to extract it from the scenario editor.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

What was their destination? AI may have said "go there" - they did - and until it says "go somewhere else" - they are just obeying orders (so to speak). A HUMAN may say "go there" and mean it - for some reason. AI might do so for less reason - but it may have something in mind we don't understand. Maybe it is waiting for something don't know it is going to be coordinating with?

There was no commonality to the orders/destinations of the affected convoys. Some were from Aden, others from Frisco. Not all convoys were affected and none were out of fuel.
I suspect that blasted AOhell virus update program interrupting power from the game every half hour may have something to do with, but of course, am not sure, not geek enough.
I had a logjam in the snaketrail coming out of Aden, right at an elbow, but got them all on their way manually.
Affected units were all over the map, all areas of the game, so I suspect this is also what messed up the "deathstar" as well..?

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: witpqs

m10bob,

I have seen various weirdness with TF's.

1) Mostly it's with transport TF's that have a destination set in mid-ocean then a home port different from where they left (a work-around way point). Sometimes they stop at the destination and sit there until given a shove as you say. Note that this never has happened with an empty TF, only those with cargo on board. Go figure. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

2) Very rarely I see a TF (any kind of TF) change it's destination, or it's home, or even teleport to a new (and usually dangerous) location. Thank goodness very rarely. Happened with stock, CHS, and RHS.

3) The only time I see a TF get really stuck (the way you describe with KB) is that a mine-laying TF fleeing Singapore will get stuck in hex near Palembang, with the '9999' range thing. This is the only one that I have seen only in RHS. Sid looked over the Pwhex and it seems okay for the hex. I have no idea what gives.

I have seen other strange behavior that goes away when the program is closed down and then started again, so I know there's bugs in them there hills.

Thank you Witpqs......BTW, you are correct in assuming I use artificial waypoints, and for some of them that may be the answer, but not more than half..
Again, it might be that whole AOhell thing too, it messes up the game and I have to hit the button at the bottom to start the game graphics all over again ..
Still would appreciate if someone might tell me how I can use those Vultees in lieu of the "missing"([:@]) SBD's..[:)]

Go to the unit. Click on the upgrade type. Select ANY type with enough planes. Make sure allow upgrades is set.
Go back to the unit screen and hit upgrade now. Except for a carrier unit - either it must be ashore - or it must be in a suitable port.

I followed these directions to a t, and they do not work. Is there a step that is missing? Thank you

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

In stock the US Army pilot pool experience from '41 to '46 evolves like this: 55-55-60-65-70-70.

In CVO they start with experience level 40 in '41. Does the experience develop like in stock from that number (+0,+5,+,5,+5,+0) or is there a different algorithm? If so where can I get the data, seems I lack the skill or the possibility to extract it from the scenario editor.

We cannot change the hard coded tables - so they remain identical.

I note that US deployment assumed new units were poorly trained. They were given lots of time to work up. Marines started fighter sqaudrons on observation planes - to save fighters I guess.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: el cid again

What was their destination? AI may have said "go there" - they did - and until it says "go somewhere else" - they are just obeying orders (so to speak). A HUMAN may say "go there" and mean it - for some reason. AI might do so for less reason - but it may have something in mind we don't understand. Maybe it is waiting for something don't know it is going to be coordinating with?

There was no commonality to the orders/destinations of the affected convoys. Some were from Aden, others from Frisco. Not all convoys were affected and none were out of fuel.

REPLY: Confusing - I thought you said KB was stuck. Now we have convoys to Aden and SF.

I suspect that blasted AOhell virus update program interrupting power from the game every half hour may have something to do with, but of course, am not sure, not geek enough.
I had a logjam in the snaketrail coming out of Aden, right at an elbow, but got them all on their way manually.
Affected units were all over the map, all areas of the game, so I suspect this is also what messed up the "deathstar" as well..?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: m10bob





Thank you Witpqs......BTW, you are correct in assuming I use artificial waypoints, and for some of them that may be the answer, but not more than half..
Again, it might be that whole AOhell thing too, it messes up the game and I have to hit the button at the bottom to start the game graphics all over again ..
Still would appreciate if someone might tell me how I can use those Vultees in lieu of the "missing"([:@]) SBD's..[:)]

Go to the unit. Click on the upgrade type. Select ANY type with enough planes. Make sure allow upgrades is set.
Go back to the unit screen and hit upgrade now. Except for a carrier unit - either it must be ashore - or it must be in a suitable port.

I followed these directions to a t, and they do not work. Is there a step that is missing? Thank you

Well - they sometimes work. If you fail a "test" you will run into greyed out options. If there are not enough planes, if your unit is not in a port (carriers at sea do not upgrade), if there are not enough supplies - stuff like that can cut you off a the knees.

I trick the game: I transfer - select on supplies - pick a field with vastly too many - and then I upgrade from a pool which is big enough. It always works - except then I must go back to where I came from.