Naval Movement Restrictions (Black Sea)

[GZEPKA]

The following from from the boardgame was not implemented.

"6.2.1.3 DARDANELLES MOVEMENT: A fleet may not enter the Dardanelles sea area unless that major power controls an unbesieged Constantinople, besieges Constantinople (see 10.7) or has access (see 10.3) from the major power controlling Constantinople". <punctuation UK vs US English, another game entirely ". or .">

I was playing Turkey against computer players and the English fleets with 40 factors of Heavy Ships freely moved into my Black Sea. I had Constantinople occupied; there were no foreign troops anywhere in my country.

This is just one of the many of the insults given to Turkey(no Kingdom of Italy, wrong moral on Ottoman troops; not allowed to expand the ottoman empire, strange ascii text in the top line of the status panel, the non scrolling line.[;)]

Seriously, Congratulations to Matrix and Marshal for the game. As a long time EIA player, in many many different settings and understanding how truly big this game is to playtest and debug I am very impressed. I know there are a flew hick ups to sort out and some additions people want, I hope sales will justify its continuing improvement.[&o]

GZepka

[Mynok]

I can confirm this bug. Spain declared war on me then proceeded to promptly blockade Constantinople, which it should *not* be able to do since it requires entering the Dardanelles.

[j-s]

True. A first game with turkey was not what I waited. OE morale will be fixed, but this bug should be fixed in future, too.

[Jimmer]

Turkey is completely unplayable against just the AIs. In order for Turkey to have any chance, two things MUST occur:
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1)&nbsp; An influx of cash from some willing ally (i.e. GB or France). Without it, she can't even build all her factors, let alone mount a significant war effort.
2)&nbsp; Sanity in the other (AI) players. Turkey should never be fighting multiple opponents. But, the AIs will declare war just to see if the button works (I think). Turkey isn't exactly a major target,&nbsp;so there's no reason why every other major would declare war on her. Yet, that almost invariably happens before two years have passed.
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I agree. With no ability to become dominant and several other things taken away (including the Dardenelles), she's just an also-ran. I really don't understand why the Dardenelles rule did not come forward. It would seem really simple to code. I wouldn't even have a problem if they were only open to allies with access (although, even that shouldn't be necessary).
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Oh, well. My fond memories of waxing the world as Turkey will have to remain just memories. It can't be done with the computer version.

[GZEPKA]

Hang in there, Turkey did pretty good in my game. France was about to surrender, I was sieging Paris, when the game crashed, with most of its provincial capitals garrisoned; and Nappy out wounded. Austria and Prussia were broken. I just hung in there and went and garrison everything and slugged it out with Prussia. Most of the time I was pretty non-aggressive.

[Marshall Ellis]

Wow! Never underestimate the power of the feudals!
Turkey is always only one massive pursuit away from glory!
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[carnifex]

I agree with the Black Sea access.&nbsp; Having it as their private lake is one of Turkey's prime features, and really helps out to fend off an aggressive Russian player and keeps the navy safer.&nbsp; It also makes the Access victory condition more relevant.

[Marshall Ellis]

I have looked at the access issue here and while we could fix this, it would require some pretty substantial DB changes that could obsolete all current saved games. I would like to hold this until a MAJOR update.

[zaquex]

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

Turkey is completely unplayable against just the AIs. In order for Turkey to have any chance, two things MUST occur:

1)  An influx of cash from some willing ally (i.e. GB or France). Without it, she can't even build all her factors, let alone mount a significant war effort.
2)  Sanity in the other (AI) players. Turkey should never be fighting multiple opponents. But, the AIs will declare war just to see if the button works (I think). Turkey isn't exactly a major target, so there's no reason why every other major would declare war on her. Yet, that almost invariably happens before two years have passed.

I agree. With no ability to become dominant and several other things taken away (including the Dardenelles), she's just an also-ran. I really don't understand why the Dardenelles rule did not come forward. It would seem really simple to code. I wouldn't even have a problem if they were only open to allies with access (although, even that shouldn't be necessary).

Oh, well. My fond memories of waxing the world as Turkey will have to remain just memories. It can't be done with the computer version.

As Turkey i got in conflict with England over Egypt and with Spain over Neaples, then allied France. Declared war against Austria got attacked by Russia, took Vienna and got an unconditional, accepted a conditional victory with Russia.

Expanded my foothold in Italy then with vol access marched trugh France and submissioned Spain to an unconditional. Created the OE. Beat up Austria to another unconditional and had won the game in 1814.

Turkey is always at risk when there is an enforced peace between France and Austria. Same are true about Russia who often doesnt have any other way of expansion than south. Turkey can be an easy way to aquire PP after a war with France.

Its not impossible to win with Turkey, actually the game AI is currently about as challanging as Tic Tac Toe, the only power that seems to actually do anything is Prussia the rest of them are either sitting idle or run around with there best leader with a single corp. As Russia I captured Napoleon 5 times over two wars and England seems more interested in declaring war with everyone (especially true about Prussia and Russia) than to beat France.

[Mynok]

I'm in 1808 in a game as Turkey against the AI and am doing well. Austria DOW'd me twice and conditionally surrendered twice ceding Transylvania and Military Border. Russia DOW'd twice and surrendered once ceding Podolia. Neither ever made serious incursions into my territory.

The Ottoman Empire is created and&nbsp; building fast. I've conquered Naples, Corfu and some of the Caucasus minors.

Ships are getting built now with the Ottoman tribute. The only thing I wish for is the ability to add minors to the Ottoman Empire and proper increase to Ottoman minor morale.

[praem]

The AI isnt much of a challenge. I had Russia DOW me as Turkey - but he didnt move - I moved into Kiev and he didnt move - When I had taken Kiev, Ekatrinoslav and Podolia Russia surendered unconditionaly - not a single battle took place!
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The issue of the Dardenelles - it is a thing that would be nice to implement - it gives Russia and Turkey a reason for conflict, but it isnt necesary to make Turkey playable.
One thing I dont get is the Turkish OOB - since when did the Janisarries have cavalry atached? This seems ahistorical?

[Mynok]

I think that came from EiH. It certainly wasn't in the original or AH version. Not sure why they did it unless the original OOB didn't provide enough space for a historical number of regular cavalry. I would have just increased the size of the ImpCav corps to address this though.

[Mardonius]

Hi Marshall:

Please fix the access to the Dardenelles as soon as you can as it is not only a big part of the game, but also is historical. Brits tried to crash it at least once and it ended badly for them. Glad to send you citations if you need them.

best
Mardonius

[Marshall Ellis]

Note taken, Mardonius!
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I am looking at how to add this parameter BUT this is tricky and PLEASE remember my previous post:
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This will obsolete previous saved games (including PBEM) so this will be added in a major update and NOT in the upcoming 1.01 patch!
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[Mardonius]

Thank you and Semper Fi... We will try and run it as a house rule then.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I have looked at the access issue here and while we could fix this, it would require some pretty substantial DB changes that could obsolete all current saved games. I would like to hold this until a MAJOR update.

That's acceptable. In the meantime, for player vs. player, people can just make an "unwritten rule" that one does not pass through the Dardinelles unless one has access/permission. It won't work against the AI, but that shouldn't ever be a problem except very early in the game.

[GZEPKA]

Has the Dardanelles strait access been taken care of yet?&nbsp; I did not see it on the bug list when I looked.
Greg

[Marshall Ellis]

We are aware of the Dardanelles issue but it has not been implemented yet. we are looking for ways to implement without obsoleting existing games.
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