Lightning Tourney Rd1 Sandeman vs SGT Rice UV2.1

[SGT Rice]

The Germans push major ground and air forces into North Africa in support of the Italian militia mob ... the British respond with major reinforcements of their own, principally the army that conquered Italian East Africa last turn.


Screenie from view mode; start of Axis W'41 turn.

[SGT Rice]

Successful ASW work last turn left a single elite German sub in the Atlantic. Since this boat is now a 3/3 (evasion/torpedo ratings), Churchill judges its a waste of time to send the CVs hunting this sub, but they find targets off the south coast of Norway where the German invasion fleet has lingered.

Turn sent to Sandeman.

[Lebatron]

SGT Rice,

If you didn't understand my question perhaps you didn't change the chip size yourself. The nation symbols under the ships in your pics are 200% bigger than normal. I was just wondering why you changed it but perhaps it was some data error that causes this?

Here are the values I choose for UV2.0+ from the wawgoldart.txt file at the bottom.
// zooms for the game
MAP_ZOOM,4000,5400,2500

// chip scaling by zoom
CHIP_SCALE,2750,3375,2750

// Y ofsets by zoom
ICON_Y_OFFSET,28,28,28

Check your chip scale settings and correct if this change was not intentional.

[SGT Rice]

Ahhhh ... I understand. When I saw 'supersize' I thought we were talking fast food. Yes, I modify the zoom settings to my own taste (pun intended).

[Sandeman]

Germany Win'41

Well the Brits reinforce a total of 15 land units into Cairo, this is where the Italians miss the 4 transports (and map) in vanilla AWD, since I could only land units in Tobruk in Summer'40, march them one space east in Fall'40, and now Winter arrives and the Brits have had time to amass a huge army in Cairo. I could heavily reinforce Egypt since I've build a 3rd transport but that would seriously curtail any barbarossa attempt next year. I'm not really seeing how halving Italy's transport fleet, reducing transport, and cutting amphib invasion to 3 leads to it being easier to take the middle east.

With that said, I've withdrawn a large amount of forces from N.Africa deciding that it's not worth attempting an attrition battle with the Wallies over Cairo.

[Lebatron]

To have the best success taking Cairo in any WWII game one has to put pressure on England itself while you march on Cairo. Otherwise Britian could put everything they have in Cairo. When that happens it would be necessary to delay Barb a few turns to overcome this force. You either do that, or you pull out as you have chosen.

You said "I'm not really seeing how halving Italy's transport fleet, reducing transport, and cutting amphib invasion to 3 leads to it being easier to take the middle east." My intent was to make the North African campaign more realistic. In other words harder not easier for the Axis to take Cairo. Where did you get the impression I made these changes to make it easier for the Axis to overrun Cairo? In any case, a determined Axis offensive in North Africa will succeed in overrruning the Middle East with a corresponding delay in Barb. That's the way it's supposed to balance out. A delayed barb with the advantage of attacking Russia from underneath is basically the same as an on time barb on one front.

Note about UV2.2. I'm considering adding one Italian transport to the que to help make up for the extra sea zone I added in UV2.1. I'm on the fence about this and will watch as the tourny plays out to see if this is needed. I'm also thinking about adding one to Germany to bring their ampib total back to 12. However the side effect would be that Scotland could be invaded by one unit without additional transports being built. The pipeline would be 6 leading to Scotland, or just enough for one unit to invade. Currently in the stock scenarios at least one transport needs to be built to invade Scotland. Here's a comparison of stock vs UV2.1, vs possible UV2.2

Stock setup
3 transports with 4 amphib rating for 12 total amphib points.
Can land 2 units in England
Can land no units in Scotland
Buying an extra transport gives 16 total amphib points.
Can land 3 units in England
Can land 1 unit in Scotland

UV2.1 setup
3 transports with 3 amphib rating for 9 total amphib points.
Can land 1 unit in England
Can land no units in Scotland
Buying an extra transport gives 12 total amphib points.
Can land 2 units in England
Can land 1 unit in Scotland

Possible UV2.2 setup
4 transports with 3 amphib for a total of 12.
Can land 2 units in England
Can land 1 unit in Scotland *a new possibility
Buying an extra transport gives 15 total.
Can land 3 units in England
Can land 1 unit in Scotland

If I choose to start Germany with 4 transports in UV2.2 they will be able to put slighly more pressure on Britain because Scotland can be invaded without additional transport builds. With the purchase of one extra transport in UV2.2 the potential is the same as buying an extra transport in Total War or UV. So adding one extra transport gives the same result in either case, yet UV2.2 would give the Germans a small advantage when no additional transports are built because Scotland can be invaded. Could you guys live with that? We'll have to see.

[MrQuiet]

Or you could add a 1/2 built transport to Germany and posibly give them one extra starting pop and they can decide if they want to build it or not.
Just a thought.
 
-MrQ

[SGT Rice]

ORIGINAL: Sandeman

Germany Win'41

Well the Brits reinforce a total of 15 land units into Cairo, this is where the Italians miss the 4 transports (and map) in vanilla AWD, since I could only land units in Tobruk in Summer'40, march them one space east in Fall'40, and now Winter arrives and the Brits have had time to amass a huge army in Cairo. I could heavily reinforce Egypt since I've build a 3rd transport but that would seriously curtail any barbarossa attempt next year. I'm not really seeing how halving Italy's transport fleet, reducing transport, and cutting amphib invasion to 3 leads to it being easier to take the middle east.

With that said, I've withdrawn a large amount of forces from N.Africa deciding that it's not worth attempting an attrition battle with the Wallies over Cairo.

No turn received; did you send?

[Sandeman]

Where did you get the impression I made these changes to make it easier for the Axis to overrun Cairo?

I took that idea from your UV 2.1 decription:

The Mediterranean Theater
The Axis, if they so wish, can usually storm across North Africa and take Cairo rather easily

So I'm just reporting that for me the transport/map change seems to have made it significantly harder to take Cairo, and gives the UK extra time to reinforce it.

[SGT Rice]

Winter 41 ... the Germans begin massing for Barbarossa. Will they strike in the spring? The main concentration is in Rumania.

[SGT Rice]

The Battle of the Atlantic continues. Germans had two subs on the map; the elite flotilla sank a TRS and the new unit damaged one. U-boats are at 3/3 but British CAGs hit ASW-2 last turn, so a successful strike on the inexperienced wolfpack is possible. Turn sent to Sandeman.

[Lebatron]

ORIGINAL: Sandeman

Where did you get the impression I made these changes to make it easier for the Axis to overrun Cairo?

I took that idea from your UV 2.1 decription:

The Mediterranean Theater
The Axis, if they so wish, can usually storm across North Africa and take Cairo rather easily

So I'm just reporting that for me the transport/map change seems to have made it significantly harder to take Cairo, and gives the UK extra time to reinforce it.

Oh I see. You misinterpreted that. The style I choose to write the readme in was to identify the flaws in the stock game and then give my reasoning for changing it. So that statement was describing the flaw in the stock scenarios. I then went on to describe some history behind the current thinking and why UV2.0 and GG have less Italian transports.

[Sandeman]

Axis Spr'41

Germany redeploys its troops for a super-secret operation yet to be named...

Japan bungles an air raid over China, 4 HBs failing to damage anything due to the new air rules.

Turn sent to SGT Rice

[Sandeman]

Oh I see. You misinterpreted that. The style I choose to write the readme in was to identify the flaws in the stock game and then give my reasoning for changing it. So that statement was describing the flaw in the stock scenarios. I then went on to describe some history behind the current thinking and why UV2.0 and GG have less Italian transports.

Ahh ok. Well maybe it's just the way we played the first few turns but it does seem like it wouldn't be worth investing such a large amount of time, manpower, and supply just to have a chance at taking the middle east.

I never thought taking the ME was that easy in the stock version... if the Brits deployed their air and sea power appropriately. Now it just seems like it can't happen unless the axis are majorly bent on doing it (to the detriment of their other campaigns)

[SGT Rice]

Allied Spring 41 (in three parts).

Russia ... the hammer will fall in Summer 41; the Germans appear to be have their eyes on Kharkov.

[SGT Rice]

Allied Spring 41 (cont).

North Africa - The Brits give chase to the Italian militia.

[SGT Rice]

Allied Spring 41 (final)

Battle of the Atlantic - Germans reinforce Norway with a FTR and MIL; B-17s from England take out the TRS in the Kattegat.

Churchill's old nemesis, the elite U-boat flotilla that picked up its gold star in summer 39, sorties into the South Atlantic. CVs and escort groups swarm ... a damage result is achieved.

[Sandeman]

Axis Sum'41

Russia must be liberated, and the campaign is mostly successful in destroying the Red army.

Meanwhile, in retaliation for the U.S. blockade, the IJA takes Changsha.

Turn sent to SGT Rice

[SGT Rice]

Allied Summer 41 - My compliments to my opponent on an outstanding German opening move ... he simultaneously threatens Leningrad, Moscow and Kharkov ... with bombers centrally located within range of every Russian factory (including the four he damaged in Summer 41) except Vladivostok.

A tiny bright spot came in the Baltic; two German TRS protected by a lone LS. The Russians hit them in waves, sinking one trannie and damaging the other two units. The lone Russian survivor steams off Kiel, daring the Scharnhorst/Gneisenau to come out and fight.

Retreat is the order of the day; I have little chance of holding either Leningrad or Kharkov. Factories in Leningrad and Smolensk are repaired and railed to the Urals. A tattered semblance of an air defense system is organized.

NOTE FOR NEW UV PLAYERS: A huge implication of this variant's suppression system is that bombers are rarely damaged by flak. In vanilla AWD its a serious gamble to send in a lone bomber against a lone flak; you're likely to get shot down with no payoff. In UV all the bombers feel is some gentle pressure from the ground that sometimes throws off their aim.

Retreat is also called for in China; the Japanese phalanx is bearing down on Lanchow & Chungking. Chinese infantry/flak stream back towards the Sinkiang redoubt.

Desparate pleas for help from Stalin to Churchill are answered; the Murmansk convoy route is opened along with the Second Front. Massive B-17 and battleship strikes on the coast of Holland clear the way for British infantry to reenter the continent.

SECOND NOTE: A second implication of the suppression system shows up in this attack; it's generally much harder to kill defending coastal artillery to clear the way for an invasion. I had decent rolls this time, taking out the ART with 3 aircraft and 2 BBs, also getting an autohit on a defending AA with a subsequent airstrike.

Germany can easily contain my expeditionary force, but hopefully it will take a little heat off the Russians. Turn sent to Sandeman.

[MrQuiet]

SECOND NOTE: A second implication of the suppression system shows up in this attack; it's generally much harder to kill defending coastal artillery to clear the way for an invasion. I had decent rolls this time, taking out the ART with 3 aircraft and 2 BBs, also getting an autohit on a defending AA with a subsequent airstrike.

I was indeed wondering about that exact thing.
I believe units with dur3 take 30sup pts to damage in UV2.

But, as you posted, you can send more waves of bombers without feer of losses to Flack.
Also, even if you only inflict say 20 sup pts on a solo art in a coastal zone you could still invade since the op-fire from the art should be reduced due to its own supression and the fact that your infantry can take 40sup before being damaged.

All very intersting for sure, and I am looking forward playing it.