Pitchers, Relievers, Closers??

[JudgeDredd]

Another question for you baseball buffs

I get pitchers....probably your best all round pitcher (power, stamina, concentration etc) and your lowest ERA....

But relievers and closers...I see them on the roster, but don't know what they are there for?

I presume your closer is the guy to try and seal the game? Maybe a very good ERA, but low stamina?

Do relievers automatically play the next game? (So I have my starting pitcher for the next game, then all others, in sequence, start the following game? Or do I have to manually set them as the pitcher?)

Also, with pitchers....do they really get "that" tired? I mean ok...the baseball world is a game every day (which is bizarre in itself), but why can't the pitchers play every other day or something? Why does a team need 10+ pitchers? Seriously...seems very excessive to me...but I do not know the intricacies of the game...so understanding why you need so many would help me understand what to do when looking for players. When I saw I had so many pitchers, I was about to dump half of them!!

All help appreciated.

Thx

[RedArgo]

Pitching overhand with maximum effort takes a real toll on a pitchers arm. That is why starters usually need 3 or 4 days off between starts. Sometimes they will pitch more often, but frequently with less than their best stuff. Relievers and closers who pitch low innings per outing can usually pitch several days in row before becoming tired.

Usually a closer will have good stuff and velocity as they would likely be coming in to a game with runners already on base. A strikeout keeps guys on base from advancing so it is better than a regular out in that situation. In real life being a closer is also a mental thing of being able to handle the pressure of the game on the line, but I don't think that is modelled in the game.

Hope this helps,
Bill

[JudgeDredd]

Thx bill

So a closer is someone you bring in when you need something extra? Or does "Closer" mean, as I thought it did, closing the game?

'Cos if it's the former, it seems I have not been using my pitchers very well....in fact my rotation is terrible because, well, I didn't know whay I should rest them!

[Nukester]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Thx bill

So a closer is someone you bring in when you need something extra? Or does "Closer" mean, as I thought it did, closing the game?

'Cos if it's the former, it seems I have not been using my pitchers very well....in fact my rotation is terrible because, well, I didn't know whay I should rest them!

In the more modern baseball era's, closers are used to finish a game when the team has a 3 run or less lead late in the game, typically the 9th inning, but sometimes the 8th inning also (or part of it). In most earlier era's, there really was no designated closer, and a manager just used the best arm that could throw that day. A real "closer" wasnt regularly used until around the 1970's-1980's

Middle relief pitchers will be used by the game as it sees fit (if you are simming). I think it will try to use the top guy in the list, but if hes not available (threw too many pitches the game before or something) the CPU will drop to the next guy in the list.

In the modern era, teams usually use 5 starting pitchers, 1 closer, and 4 or 5 middle relief guys depending on the situation. If you have alot of games off coming up, you might be able to go with only 4 MR pitchers since they will get more rest in between games.

Also a decent starting pitcher will generally be able to throw around 90-100 pitches before getting tired

[Frozen Stiffer]

Judge,

Another factor to keep in mind when determining how tired a pitcher will be, or how long he will last (remaining effective) is their ENDurance rating. Of course, a higher ENDurance rating means the player will last longer. There is no set formula on how many innings they will be effective based on their ENDurance rating, or at least no such ratio/formula has been publically released/published. It's just a gut feeling. Just as a REAL manager doesn't see a magical effectiveness percentage number hovering above the pitcher's head letting him know when it's time to pull him out, neither should you.

As far as role-to-endurance-rating ratio, typically those with a 65+ (I personally don't accept anything lower than 70) serve as Starting Pitchers (or if you have enough of those, LRPs - Long Relief Pitchers). It's the guys you find with great stats but an ENDurance of 10 or less that typically serve in the "closer" role. This is because closers usually only pitch 1 inning in a game and need to bring THEIR BEST STUFF to the mound at that time.

However, this is a practice and not a rule. For example, in one of my associations, my closer has an ENDurance rating of 55. I had enough relievers and none of my minor league closers seemed worthy so I gave this guy a shot and he's done a grand job. The benefit is that if he fouls up his outing/opportunity, he has enough ENDurance to stay out a little longer than usual to get the job done (hopefully).

[SpharV2]

Things have really changed when it comes to pitching in baseball.  A team used to send a couple of starting pitchers out (Sometimes with the same starter for both games of a double header!), and relievers were just other starters basically who could go in for injuries or if a starterwas really taking it on the chin.  These days, teams play in very small stadiums compared to what they used to have in the league, and baseball has become less of a game and more of a business.  Seeing as how a lot of owners are businessmen, they're looking to protect their investments, and their biggest investment is usually in the starting pitchers.  Thus, you get relievers to come in early if there's a sign of trouble with the starters, and closers who (You guessed correctly here) come in to close out a close game in the last inning or two.

Speaking as a former pitcher, it's really amazing how much pressure you can put on your arm performing some of these pitches.  Even the simple fastball has nearly become a thing of the past, with all kinds of varieties of it becoming more prominent.  To be successfull these days, your pitches need movement, and that extra curve on the ball is at the expense of more pressure on a lot of little pieces of stuff in your arm.  It's not a coincidence that the majority of the really successful pitchers that last a long time these days are the ones who are soft throwers relying on control (Greg Maddox/Tom Glavine).  Some power pitchers can last like Nolan Ryan, who simply had an amazingly resilient arm, or Roger Clemens, though his longetivity is now being called into question.  More often with the hard throwers, you have a career like Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez, with a great start, a slow decline, then injuries completely derailing the career. 

Once you get out of your little league (Maybe high school) years, nobody will pitch their starters too much because they don't want to risk injury.  So, kids are generally put on a pitch count (Meaning they have a set number of pitches they are allowed to throw in a game, hit that number and they come out, no matter what).  Some little leagues around here have mandatory pitch counts, so as a manager, you don't even get a choice in the matter. 

Once the idea of limiting overwork on pitchers arms came along, the relievers started to become more prominent.  The same rules generally apply to them, but the kicker here is that since relievers tend to not pitch as regularly, or as long, their arms will tire more quickly than starters (For the most part, there are some relievers that can pitch a couple of innings a day all year it seems like, but those guys are rare)
 so you need to have at least 4-5 of them to be available in case you need more than an inning or two out of them.  You also have the whole matchup thing, which says you need to have both lefthanded relievers and right handed relievers to match up against the batters.

The closer idea is very new, with regular use only coming in the past few decades.  The idea here is simple.  To put a guy in there with only a few outs to get, who will simply overpower the batters he faces.  You don't want a soft thrower here, because you want to keep men off the bases as much as possible since he'll be pitching with a 0-3 run lead.  You want a guy who can come in with 1 out in the bottom of the 9th with the bases loaded, and you're up by one run, and you'll be reasonably sure that the first guy he faces will get struck out.  Because this pitcher tends to be the hardest thrower on your team, you don't want to overwork him, he's generally in for an inning, maybe less, maybe a bit more.  And they often won't use the closer on more than 2-3 consecutive days.  Again, individual circumstances can vary, but teams generally follow those guidelines.

The big issue these days is protecting the investment.  Often, a team's biggest investment is in pitching.  They command the most money and the long deals.  Usually, it's the starters who get the most, followed by closers, though some relievers are getting up near that closer pay.  As a manager, you don't want to have to go to the owner and tell him that the $15-20 million he just spent on that new starter was wasted because you shredded his arm, so you'll do what has to be done to try and make sure that doesn't happen.

[Frozen Stiffer]

Amazing work, Sphar. Very well explained and very well written. We're glad to have you on board the community!

[&o]

[JudgeDredd]

Frozen Stiffer

I love your responses...you are very helpful, but I'd rather you didn't post on the boards...I think you should just PM people, because your avatar freaks me out!!! That's a Super Hero for gods sake!! [:D][:D]

Sphar

Thank you very much for the detailed answer....it helps me understand why things are and puts things in perspective game wise.

I know I've said it before, but just in case people just think I'm dumb, I'm from the UK and know nothing about baseball apart from what I pick up on games that I "remember" to tape on a Sunday night at 11pm AND if I get time to watch them.