RHS 81mm mortars

[Historiker]

What are they good for? To eat up supplies?

[el cid again]

EVERYTHING eats up supplies.

81 mm mortars are good for combat. So are 2 inch mortars, 3 inch mortars, MMG, etc. They are sort of funny squads. Their values do contribute to firepower in battles. But the way hard code works, their contribution to squad count (which is two remember - the mortar itself and the support squad) probably matters even more. Anyway - these small weapons - taken together - matter more than the line infantry squads for most units - and are (were IRL too) a big deal.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

EVERYTHING eats up supplies.

81 mm mortars are good for combat. So are 2 inch mortars, 3 inch mortars, MMG, etc. They are sort of funny squads. Their values do contribute to firepower in battles. But the way hard code works, their contribution to squad count (which is two remember - the mortar itself and the support squad) probably matters even more. Anyway - these small weapons - taken together - matter more than the line infantry squads for most units - and are (were IRL too) a big deal.

I just find it strange we can not set them to attack or bombard only defense.

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: okami
I just find it strange we can not set them to attack or bombard only defense.

Probably a question of "range".

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: okami
I just find it strange we can not set them to attack or bombard only defense.

Probably a question of "range".

So they are useless, right? Or how can something fight with a range to short?

[el cid again]

You may not use any weapon for bombardment that does not have a minimum range = 3 nor a minimum firepower (5 I think). Hard code. Bombardment attacks are limited to significant artillery weapons, and very small tube weapons don't count for that in WITP. It does not mean they don't contribute to a battle - it means they won't do an exclusive bombardment attack.

You generally may use these weapons in units during a normal attack - but it depends on a number of things - and a small enough unit without enough firepower is not allowed to attack - only defend. In general, a LCU with full TO&E in RHS will attack. If there are enough missing or damaged squads, insufficient supply, or for some reason certain totals are not high enough - you cannot. I have carefully added machine guns or infantry squads or whatever it took to give small LCUs the ability to attack. A more specific opinion would require a specific case.

No squad is ever "useless." Even wholly unarmed squads prooved to be a problem - see the supply sinks in old forms of RHS - squad count always matters - maybe more than it should. Nor is any squad with firepower ever useless. Its firepower always is used defensively - and it is used offensively if the unit ever attacks.

[Historiker]

Unit 1200

Ordered to march to Hong Kong at the beginning but can't do anything. A whole artillery unit without any bombardement capacity....
Seems quite useless, no? [;)]

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

EVERYTHING eats up supplies.

81 mm mortars are good for combat. So are 2 inch mortars, 3 inch mortars, MMG, etc. They are sort of funny squads. Their values do contribute to firepower in battles. But the way hard code works, their contribution to squad count (which is two remember - the mortar itself and the support squad) probably matters even more. Anyway - these small weapons - taken together - matter more than the line infantry squads for most units - and are (were IRL too) a big deal.

Is this to say RHS has these weapons in "squad" form instead of as weapons? If so, do the Japanese get their grenade discharger squads?

[el cid again]

These weapons are generally not present in WITP - and they were introduced by RHS - but as weapons and not as "squads" - in WITP talk. The difference is in the eye of the beholder - a weapon being essentially the same thing as a squad. But a squad is limited to a thing that fights as infantry - while a weapon is a thing that is focused on a device served by a crew of some sort.

Grenade dischargers are too small for this treatment. They are - de facto - tiny grenade launchers cum mortars (they fire both kinds of charges) - and I think they were something akin to the 40mm M-79 of my day. But they are INCLUDED in Japanese squads. Indeed, a Japanese platoon has three squads - plus a GD squad with three teams. What Joe Wilkerson did - and I have preserved this - is to put one GD in each squad - so you end up with a platoon of three squads each with 1 LMG and 1 GD. In the latest RHS form, Class A units (only) ALSO get 3 AT squads. IRL every Japanese infantry squad had an AT team, but since their weapons are too insiginficant for our purposes, only those with the 20 mm ATR are represented. In most units - if there are any at all - they are separate squads (4, 6, 12 or 18 typically). But in a Class A division the number of ATR squads = the number of rifle squads.

The smallest weapon able to have enough firepower to show up is the 2 inch mortar - this being dicated by the warhead weight - and you will find these in numbers in BA, IA, AA, NZA and CW units.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Unit 1200

Ordered to march to Hong Kong at the beginning but can't do anything. A whole artillery unit without any bombardement capacity....
Seems quite useless, no? [;)]

FYI no unit is EVER "useless" -

ALL units will ALWAYS defend - even if they have no firepower whatever

and ALL units will ALWAYS participate with firepower if the unit is engaged by an enemy unit - if they have any firepower to participate with

However, a mortar unit should bombard - and from time to time I have trouble with this (having introduced mortars in separate units, I pretty much am alone in this ) - I will investigate this - and for all mortars - not just for one.

[el cid again]

That was a bit wierd: it was a busted device. A copy of the Allied 81mm mortar works fine - for the Japanese.

All other devices work fine.

Clarification: ALL weapons work when PART of a unit which otherwise will do an attack (either kind).
ONLY those devices in special units have to qualifiy as individuals - hard code. So an Allied 60 mm mortar - or a Japanese
70 mm howitzer - need NOT qualify individually - but a Japanese 81mm motar does - for the case of a pure 81mm mortar unit.
They ALWAYS worked fine if part of a brigade etc.

[m10bob]

Considering each hex equals roughly 50-60 miles, it makes sense the tactical application of mortars is only that of a defensive weapon, (in game terms).
Sid's comparison of the M 79 thump gun to the knee mortar is pretty accurate, and most of the fellas who were weapons people in the Rangers of my era have fired both.
Main difference is the lack of recoil in the M 79, compared to the knee mortar which would break your leg if you tried to fire it off your knee.
Some of the true VC in the 50's and 60's were still using stuff as far back as WW1 era Lebels and Chaut Chauts,(Japanese stuff could be found)..


http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwenarm.htm

[el cid again]

Curiously enough, the "knee mortar" - which would indeed break your leg if you used it that way - was NOT a "knee mortar" at all. It was an AMERICAN nickname based on an assumption - from the curved baseplate. You might put that plate against a tree or a log on the ground - but NEVER your knee - in IJA.