RHS x.7891 issues and eratta FOR x.7892

[ny59giants]

I don't know if this needs to be in a separate thread, but my question is the Chinese inablity to build up forts. The organic Chinese LCU's cannot build up forts on their own due to the type of engineers they have. Even bringing in a BF with construction type engineers, the building process seems to be using only the BF engineers and does not add the engineers from infantry type LCU's. Is this just my observation or was this an intent of the mod??  Moderate AF damage doesn't seem to get repaired with a BF only.

[witpqs]

Buck, Sid is simulating those communications, et al considerations by having the HQ's be static. It is up to the player to basically respect the concept on his own because the game engine does not in any way account for it.

I would be fine with that except that (as we previously noted) the game engine does require those HQ's to be within a certain distance of their prepped objective to be effective.

[goodboyladdie]

I just had a look at the ships expected for the Japs in the latest version EOS. There does not appear to be any ship art for the Thai cruisers. Won't this cause a crash?

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have come to the conclusion that Fort Morrow at Port Hayden cannot be absent from the game - never mind we have no slots. I consumed a tiny atol in favor of a base on the Alaska penninsula where the theater HQ began the war! It is vital because it is a more than minor port with a more than minor airfield farther out than any other such location in the area.
It was only developed after the war - if that is the word - and its present population is only 79 - so it was never a significant economic area. It has no production, just a capacity for a medium sized port co located with a fairly large (but not giant) airfield complex. Aside from its utility offensively against enemy forces in the area, it is important to deny it to the enemy - being more exposed than any other location which can develop to the point of basing fairly signficant air on it.

A base seems appropriate but I sure don't see you putting the Alaska Command there. Suppling it will take a 2 or 3 day more transit time around the peninsula and as a HQ will require a healthy stream of AKs to do so (Command HQs try to build and maintain 25000 supply units). Additionally, I can't find any real life reference to it being there (the HQ) like I can for Cold Bay and Kodiak. Command HQs seem to be too important to squirrel it away in such a remote location.

My uneducated opinion.

BTW, is there any reason why you have the objectives of the HQ as Dutch Harbor and the 37th Reg't as Kodiak?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

Maybe I wasn't specific enough. Here is the post again.

ORIGINAL: el cid again


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Sid,


The fact is to the best of my knowledge the game does not (yet, at least) show things like communications infrastructure with on map units of any kind.



WITP does not.

RHS does.

Further - strategic communications assets are tied to major HQ.


Can/will you explain the GAME benefits and specific examples of this application in RHS? Maybe this would help us understand your RL concept as applied here in WITP. Also just for informational purposes, when did you start with this concept?

The question relates to the concept and application of strategic communications you say is in RHS. Again, how does it show, how is it applied, what is effected in the game and how long has it been included in the scenarios?
Sorry my previous post was not clear enough

It has pretty much always been present - although more elaborately over time - because we only change a few things at one time and the data set is gigantic.

I have actually added a great number of HQ to the game system - partially because WITP (and things based on it like CHS) got messed up with Chinese organization - and duplicated many HQ (corps and army are the same thing) - though changes in actual Chinese usage probably caused this to be very confusing. Since the game design provided for a "corps" sized unit as the basic thing for China - having an "army" HQ (when what they called an "army" was in fact a corps - two or three division formations) makes no sense. So I had slots to play with - both empty and by conversion - and most have worked out.

I also increased the ranges of many HQ - with a view to giving players influence over things - in particular air strike coordination - which does seem to work (unlike many HQ functions).

But the main contribution of HQ is only in the same hex. And this contribution is in two forms: via support squads,
and by special function (as in helping a ship to repair if it is a naval HQ). I added more kinds of HQ support in the same hex: RHS HQ usually have a security element, often have an AA component, often have engineers - and rarely have other elements (Buckner has a carefully hoarded battery of artillery - because they gave him no artillery units - and because there were enough ancient guns to form one with). Each HQ is evaluated for possible and appropriate functions. Adding various squads means the weight to lift and cost to feed goes up. But PART of that review process is to consider the nature of the support assets. Are they gigantic and do they need to be associated with this particular site? If so, the HQ is static (rarely). In the context of many more HQ - I think more than 50% more - it should be tolerable some won't move.

To which let me add I added "pseudo HQ" at times. Japanese Air Sector HQ are NOT really HQ in game technical terms - and will be if I get the slots to make them so. But they are local control assets for air operations - and they work adequately. So is the NPAC HQ at Kodiac - the real "theater HQ" is Buckners - but IRL he did NOT command the Navy - so I put his counterpart at Kodiac in a HQ that is really a naval support base - and it DOES provide support to some extent in that hex - as most HQ do. Both HQ are mobile - only the 11th Air Force / Alaska Air National Guard HQ is static - and indeed it is still at Elmendorf - where there are still strategic (if naval) communications facilities. [The US was always remarkably joint] You get three HQ in sideshow Alaska - a theater HQ with a range of 9 (which is mobile), an air HQ with a range of 5 (which is static) - and a pseudo naval HQ (so the Admiral can hang his hat) that at least provides in hex support (which also is moblile). If we get more slots (that behave and don't teleport to China) - we will turn all pseudo HQ into real ones too.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I don't know if this needs to be in a separate thread, but my question is the Chinese inablity to build up forts. The organic Chinese LCU's cannot build up forts on their own due to the type of engineers they have. Even bringing in a BF with construction type engineers, the building process seems to be using only the BF engineers and does not add the engineers from infantry type LCU's. Is this just my observation or was this an intent of the mod??  Moderate AF damage doesn't seem to get repaired with a BF only.

Chinese engineering IRL was very (notoriously) elaborate and slow. Even today, China does not use lumber mills: raw logs are taken to a building site and the carpenters make each board from them - by hand! [It takes a Chinese construction team three times as long to build the same building as it takes Koreans!] Chinese engineers were not educated in the formal sense, but they could figure out the grade of a road in a particular situation - slowly. I am not sure this isn't very good simulation if it IS a problem - and I am not sure it is.

It was my intent that you use the (Chinese) air force units to have your technical people - AA as well as construction - although I have just added a bit of this to a couple of HQ as well. This gives you just enough to have some construction ability in many places without being competative with the more developed nations.

Related to your observations is supply: you will find that construction is fine in China (probably) IF there is adequate supply - and that is not often the case in China. You should be fighting for supplies - and things that make them (e.g. resource centers, heavy industry, oil centers) - and the LOC (roads and rail lines) that permit good flow of resources and supplies - so your units will build up to full strength and construction will become efficient. If you can get supplies sent to China - better still. The Burma Road gives you 500 free per day (hard code) - keep it open if you can - as long as you can. Fly things from India (Pan Am has an air unit at Asonol for that purpose early on). Best of all - open ports or a land LOC to Russia. IF you get a glut of supplies to China - and IF China is networked up so it makes all the supplies it can - I bet you won't have any trouble building things.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Buck, Sid is simulating those communications, et al considerations by having the HQ's be static. It is up to the player to basically respect the concept on his own because the game engine does not in any way account for it.

I would be fine with that except that (as we previously noted) the game engine does require those HQ's to be within a certain distance of their prepped objective to be effective.

I have added many HQs of all kinds. I also added amphib HQ for Japan - and AGCs to deliver them (albiet not very many). It was my idea that you use the kind of HQ you need because you have them to use. I also do not believe a theater HQ does much for you outside its hex - and I regret to say that is a paraphrase of a Matrix programmer.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I just had a look at the ships expected for the Japs in the latest version EOS. There does not appear to be any ship art for the Thai cruisers. Won't this cause a crash?

Since there IS art for the Thai "cruisers" (armored river gunboats so rated for technical reasons) - you don't have the right art. It should be on the RHS site. If not - advise. Time was, Cobra or Mifune would address this. Both seem to have machine problems - but I have acceptable art that works.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have come to the conclusion that Fort Morrow at Port Hayden cannot be absent from the game - never mind we have no slots. I consumed a tiny atol in favor of a base on the Alaska penninsula where the theater HQ began the war! It is vital because it is a more than minor port with a more than minor airfield farther out than any other such location in the area.
It was only developed after the war - if that is the word - and its present population is only 79 - so it was never a significant economic area. It has no production, just a capacity for a medium sized port co located with a fairly large (but not giant) airfield complex. Aside from its utility offensively against enemy forces in the area, it is important to deny it to the enemy - being more exposed than any other location which can develop to the point of basing fairly signficant air on it.

A base seems appropriate but I sure don't see you putting the Alaska Command there. Suppling it will take a 2 or 3 day more transit time around the peninsula and as a HQ will require a healthy stream of AKs to do so (Command HQs try to build and maintain 25000 supply units). Additionally, I can't find any real life reference to it being there (the HQ) like I can for Cold Bay and Kodiak. Command HQs seem to be too important to squirrel it away in such a remote location.

My uneducated opinion.

BTW, is there any reason why you have the objectives of the HQ as Dutch Harbor and the 37th Reg't as Kodiak?

See Morison - the volume on Aleutians, Gilberts and Marianas - page 7.

37th regiment was moved - and the objective was not changed - it is probably eratta. But it should not be properly planned up either - so it is OK. Pretty much the same for the HQ - but I will change the objectives with a low level of planning - which is better still.

EDIT: HQ is not assigned any planning. 37th Regiment was planned at 30% - which is OK - but can be changed to Port Hayden. IF we do another update - it will be done - because I already did it at source.

I think the HQ at Port Hayden will HELP in game terms - IF range has any meaning it means the US will have more reach into the Aleutians. IRL at this time they wanted to build the area up - and carry the war to Japan by this route. It was hoped Russia might come into the war - even be forced in by a Japanese attack - and to use airfields near Vladivostok to raid Japan and Korea and Manchuria. They also wanted to use the Kamchatka Penninsula for air attacks - and to have a secure SLOC to it. Ultimately - Russia did not come in - and unexpected demands in places like Guadalcanal made resources hard to send North. But when the war begins the HQ was there - and the thinking was it might be important to have bases in the Alaska Penninsula (a better site) and the Aleutians - to secure that SLOC to Siberia. I also think Buckner was right: it was a dangerous position for any enemy moving in - and IRL the enemy moved in with NO intel about the bases on his flank. Build up supplies and airfield at Port Hayden - and you have a network of strong bases forming a triangle - Anchorage - Kodiak - Port Hayden - which sould be lethal to naval groups in the area.

But distances are vast - games will have different events and strategies - and THIS HQ is mobile - send it where you wish.

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I just had a look at the ships expected for the Japs in the latest version EOS. There does not appear to be any ship art for the Thai cruisers. Won't this cause a crash?

Since there IS art for the Thai "cruisers" (armored river gunboats so rated for technical reasons) - you don't have the right art. It should be on the RHS site. If not - advise. Time was, Cobra or Mifune would address this. Both seem to have machine problems - but I have acceptable art that works.

Hi Sid,

I've checked the dreemer site but cannot find any updated art that has the Thia ships in it. I have EOS 7.7893 that I gor from Michael. If you have an update to EOS 7.7893 can you send me that update as well as the art that will work w/EOS please?

Thanx in advance,

Mike

[Buck Beach]

Sid I found several references to Port Heiden on the internet but only one using the spelling Hayden.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I don't know if this needs to be in a separate thread, but my question is the Chinese inablity to build up forts. The organic Chinese LCU's cannot build up forts on their own due to the type of engineers they have. Even bringing in a BF with construction type engineers, the building process seems to be using only the BF engineers and does not add the engineers from infantry type LCU's. Is this just my observation or was this an intent of the mod??  Moderate AF damage doesn't seem to get repaired with a BF only.

Chinese engineering IRL was very (notoriously) elaborate and slow. Even today, China does not use lumber mills: raw logs are taken to a building site and the carpenters make each board from them - by hand! [It takes a Chinese construction team three times as long to build the same building as it takes Koreans!] Chinese engineers were not educated in the formal sense, but they could figure out the grade of a road in a particular situation - slowly. I am not sure this isn't very good simulation if it IS a problem - and I am not sure it is.

It was my intent that you use the (Chinese) air force units to have your technical people - AA as well as construction - although I have just added a bit of this to a couple of HQ as well. This gives you just enough to have some construction ability in many places without being competative with the more developed nations.

Related to your observations is supply: you will find that construction is fine in China (probably) IF there is adequate supply - and that is not often the case in China. You should be fighting for supplies - and things that make them (e.g. resource centers, heavy industry, oil centers) - and the LOC (roads and rail lines) that permit good flow of resources and supplies - so your units will build up to full strength and construction will become efficient. If you can get supplies sent to China - better still. The Burma Road gives you 500 free per day (hard code) - keep it open if you can - as long as you can. Fly things from India (Pan Am has an air unit at Asonol for that purpose early on). Best of all - open ports or a land LOC to Russia. IF you get a glut of supplies to China - and IF China is networked up so it makes all the supplies it can - I bet you won't have any trouble building things.

I beg your pardon. I have a mainland Chinese aeronautical engineer working for me...

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I just had a look at the ships expected for the Japs in the latest version EOS. There does not appear to be any ship art for the Thai cruisers. Won't this cause a crash?

Since there IS art for the Thai "cruisers" (armored river gunboats so rated for technical reasons) - you don't have the right art. It should be on the RHS site. If not - advise. Time was, Cobra or Mifune would address this. Both seem to have machine problems - but I have acceptable art that works.

Hi Sid,

I've checked the dreemer site but cannot find any updated art that has the Thia ships in it. I have EOS 7.7893 that I gor from Michael. If you have an update to EOS 7.7893 can you send me that update as well as the art that will work w/EOS please?

Thanx in advance,

Mike

Hi Mike

So there is nothing to stop us, I'll add some suitable WPO art for those ships and send it to you. Luckily the missing plane art does not cause a crash. When I eventually finish each art file I'll send it to you so you can just unzip it into the art folder and it will overwrite.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

Sid I found several references to Port Heiden on the internet but only one using the spelling Hayden.

I guess it depends on wether you speak German or use the Americanization. I don't know where the name came from, but in the 1930s Alaska was "colonized" by Germans - not in the sense that they claimed it for Germany - but in the sense they homesteaded. During WWII they grew food in the area North of Anchorage for the Army - a unique place to grow things - because of long daylight hours: Alaskan vegetables belong in a science fiction story - and curiously it was once a land of Giants and midgets in fiction (before it was actually explored). Anyway - we have lots of Russian and German place names - and it is not uncommon to see variations on spelling. Before WWII there were very few people in Alaska - but many of those families names were left behind on the maps.

But not this one. Looks like the fact I speak German got me in trouble - and I Germanized the name. Oops.

To which add that in EOS family LCU slot 1004 should be in location 227. It isn't too bad where it is - and no one ever goes there to get shot at - but still - it should be that the Tsushima Fort is on Tsushima Island. CVO and BBO families are right.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I don't know if this needs to be in a separate thread, but my question is the Chinese inablity to build up forts. The organic Chinese LCU's cannot build up forts on their own due to the type of engineers they have. Even bringing in a BF with construction type engineers, the building process seems to be using only the BF engineers and does not add the engineers from infantry type LCU's. Is this just my observation or was this an intent of the mod??  Moderate AF damage doesn't seem to get repaired with a BF only.

Chinese engineering IRL was very (notoriously) elaborate and slow. Even today, China does not use lumber mills: raw logs are taken to a building site and the carpenters make each board from them - by hand! [It takes a Chinese construction team three times as long to build the same building as it takes Koreans!] Chinese engineers were not educated in the formal sense, but they could figure out the grade of a road in a particular situation - slowly. I am not sure this isn't very good simulation if it IS a problem - and I am not sure it is.

It was my intent that you use the (Chinese) air force units to have your technical people - AA as well as construction - although I have just added a bit of this to a couple of HQ as well. This gives you just enough to have some construction ability in many places without being competative with the more developed nations.

Related to your observations is supply: you will find that construction is fine in China (probably) IF there is adequate supply - and that is not often the case in China. You should be fighting for supplies - and things that make them (e.g. resource centers, heavy industry, oil centers) - and the LOC (roads and rail lines) that permit good flow of resources and supplies - so your units will build up to full strength and construction will become efficient. If you can get supplies sent to China - better still. The Burma Road gives you 500 free per day (hard code) - keep it open if you can - as long as you can. Fly things from India (Pan Am has an air unit at Asonol for that purpose early on). Best of all - open ports or a land LOC to Russia. IF you get a glut of supplies to China - and IF China is networked up so it makes all the supplies it can - I bet you won't have any trouble building things.

I beg your pardon. I have a mainland Chinese aeronautical engineer working for me...

Today. And that isn't what I was talking about. Civil engineering in China was a very traditional enterprise - did not involve engineering school as we understand it - and some traditional practices survived long after the War of Resistence era (e.g. the making of boards without sawmills). The CCP drove what few Western type academics and institutions out of PRC in the period after the war - and only in the 1980s wat that decision reversed (with Shenzhen created as an experimental city in which - among other things - academic freedom was permitted - not too hard since Cantonese speaking people pretty much don't follow the line of "Northerners" traditionally - and you could already say "Bad bad CCP" to a policeman without getting arrested in that part of China). Today China graduates vastly more students than we do - although only the top tier schools are any good - and most graduates have poor to no job prospects. But today it is very possible to meet people who were educated in foreign countries or Hong Kong - and the top schools do turn out good product. I am not anti-Chinese in an ethnic sense - I was married in China and my wife is Chinese - and I run an international discussion list largely peopled by Chinese academics. I get in lots of hot water for suggesting that Chinese technology can be any good at anything - attitudes in technical circles in the US regard China about the way they regarded the Japanese in 1940 - but there is nothing inherantly inferior about Chinese engineering. In aeronautics it is only in China you will find a MiG-21 derivitive that can fly to empty tanks - NO Russian version ever could (and it required re-winging to achieve it). But in terms of building or fixing things like buildings, roads, bridges, airfields, in the WWII era China largely depended on manual labor, and its experts - who were experts - were not engineers in the Western sense.
The job would get done - very slowly.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I just had a look at the ships expected for the Japs in the latest version EOS. There does not appear to be any ship art for the Thai cruisers. Won't this cause a crash?

Since there IS art for the Thai "cruisers" (armored river gunboats so rated for technical reasons) - you don't have the right art. It should be on the RHS site. If not - advise. Time was, Cobra or Mifune would address this. Both seem to have machine problems - but I have acceptable art that works.

Hi Sid,

I've checked the dreemer site but cannot find any updated art that has the Thia ships in it. I have EOS 7.7893 that I gor from Michael. If you have an update to EOS 7.7893 can you send me that update as well as the art that will work w/EOS please?

Thanx in advance,

Mike

The latest art should be on the site.

It will not have a current version number because we have not changed it in some time.

[goodboyladdie]

It's not, despite your insistence, but don't worry as we have fixed it ourselves. The air art is a little harder. Will the Ida art be added at some point? I appreciate that you are very busy and are working this alone at the moment. 1EyedJacks and I are just about to have our third EOS attempt. Hopefully, all the hard work you have done will give us a chance to play this attempt through to a conclusion.

Your hard work is very much appreciated. Thanks Sid. [:)]

[el cid again]

air art is not so hard - ship art is massive

you need the air art for EOS family - and it is more or less right - Ida is done - and the "wrong" things point at something similar

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have come to the conclusion that Fort Morrow at Port Hayden cannot be absent from the game - never mind we have no slots. I consumed a tiny atol in favor of a base on the Alaska penninsula where the theater HQ began the war! It is vital because it is a more than minor port with a more than minor airfield farther out than any other such location in the area.
It was only developed after the war - if that is the word - and its present population is only 79 - so it was never a significant economic area. It has no production, just a capacity for a medium sized port co located with a fairly large (but not giant) airfield complex. Aside from its utility offensively against enemy forces in the area, it is important to deny it to the enemy - being more exposed than any other location which can develop to the point of basing fairly signficant air on it.

A base seems appropriate but I sure don't see you putting the Alaska Command there. Suppling it will take a 2 or 3 day more transit time around the peninsula and as a HQ will require a healthy stream of AKs to do so (Command HQs try to build and maintain 25000 supply units). Additionally, I can't find any real life reference to it being there (the HQ) like I can for Cold Bay and Kodiak. Command HQs seem to be too important to squirrel it away in such a remote location.

My uneducated opinion.

BTW, is there any reason why you have the objectives of the HQ as Dutch Harbor and the 37th Reg't as Kodiak?

See Morison - the volume on Aleutians, Gilberts and Marianas - page 7.

37th regiment was moved - and the objective was not changed - it is probably eratta. But it should not be properly planned up either - so it is OK. Pretty much the same for the HQ - but I will change the objectives with a low level of planning - which is better still.

EDIT: HQ is not assigned any planning. 37th Regiment was planned at 30% - which is OK - but can be changed to Port Hayden. IF we do another update - it will be done - because I already did it at source.

I think the HQ at Port Hayden will HELP in game terms - IF range has any meaning it means the US will have more reach into the Aleutians. IRL at this time they wanted to build the area up - and carry the war to Japan by this route. It was hoped Russia might come into the war - even be forced in by a Japanese attack - and to use airfields near Vladivostok to raid Japan and Korea and Manchuria. They also wanted to use the Kamchatka Penninsula for air attacks - and to have a secure SLOC to it. Ultimately - Russia did not come in - and unexpected demands in places like Guadalcanal made resources hard to send North. But when the war begins the HQ was there - and the thinking was it might be important to have bases in the Alaska Penninsula (a better site) and the Aleutians - to secure that SLOC to Siberia. I also think Buckner was right: it was a dangerous position for any enemy moving in - and IRL the enemy moved in with NO intel about the bases on his flank. Build up supplies and airfield at Port Hayden - and you have a network of strong bases forming a triangle - Anchorage - Kodiak - Port Hayden - which sould be lethal to naval groups in the area.

But distances are vast - games will have different events and strategies - and THIS HQ is mobile - send it where you wish.

Looks like this HQ is moving back to Anchorage anyway - the field didn't start building until January.

[Mistmatz]

[/quote]

The latest art should be on the site.

It will not have a current version number because we have not changed it in some time.


[/quote]


Couldn't locate it on http://rhs.akdreamer.com/ ... Did you post it at a different location? Do the files have the correct timestamp?