DOWs and activation

[Lucky1]

You can tell I have been on holiday with so many posts! Back to my MBA tonight, however....

My current AAR has led me to remember a question regarding DOWs. It seems that with certain states (Italy, Siam) the nation is activated immediately when triggered by an in-game event (e.g., fall of France, Japan attacks WA). However, when other countries (e.g., Greece or Belgium/Netherlands) declare war, it is not manifested until the next turn. Now, I might be recalling this incorrectly, but this has created the weird situation wherein Greece DOWs Germany (but does not change to active) and Germany decides to attack before the WA can move troops into Greece. However, the program requires a DOW and Germany is actually penalized for invading a country that had declared war against her. I seem to recall this happening with the low countries as well.

This leads to me to ask why the decision was made to have a delayed entry for some countries, but not all (i.e., why does Siam immediately become Japanese and allow Japanese troops to enter etc., when other countries like Finland do not activate immediately)? I can't really think of what purpose this differential serves. (But I can be enlightened....) At the very least, Germany should not be penalized (in terms of war readiness levels) for invading a country that has DOWed, but not yet activated.

Any thoughts on this?

[MrQuiet]

I think the random political events (not triggered ones) happen at the begining of the season (i.e. between WA and GE turn)
So Greece decides they want to join WA just before Ger player starts his turn, but WA has not had the chance to accept them yet (still neutral)
 
Siam joining axis is triggered by JP attacking WA.

[Forwarn45]

What MrQuiet said. Additionally, I note that once the US is in the war - countries that are pro-Allied will sometimes declare war at the beginning of the Allied turn.

I like the way it works now despite some of the inconsistencies. It actually works both for and against both sides. If Germany attacks Yugoslavia, for example, the pro-Axis Balkan countries will "join" the Axis. But it is not formalized until the next turn and Germany won't get to use the new territories immediately.

[Lucky1]

ahhh. Right. I had forgotten that one could deny admitting an ally. I never really saw the logic in that .... The enemy of my enemy is my friend, after all. But, it is a bit funny in the game. 
 
Sorry Finland. We want to go it alone. Better take back the DOW. 
 
Nah Greece, sit tight until Germany decides it is in her advantage to invade. Stick to the Olympics. 
 
Siam. We don't need your rail or access to Singapore/Rangoon. (Actually, I can almost see this occurring if Japan is pursuing a Russia / China strategy and wants a slight (the mere cost of DOW) barrier between it and the WA.
 
Perhaps someone could give examples of how often they decline an alliance and then provide their reasoning, cuz I just don't get it. If a territory is needed for tactical reasons, then it probably makes sense to invade it anyhow. (i.e., If the German player declined an Italian alliance in the game, you could rest assured that I, as WA, would do a massive amphib landing in Northern Italy as soon as feasable. This would be smart for a number of reasons and would not necessarily have been a-historical (Think Vichy. And after all, Italy is a major supplier of resources to the Reich even while 'neutral').
 
whoo. Am feeling stroppy!

[Lebatron]

Well declining Spain and Italy are two examples. I personally never decline them, but some I'm sure have for particular reasons. 

[Lucky1]

To be honest, the only reason I can think of for refusing Spain's entry is a desire to have the game stay within the constraints of history (valid enough, I suppose). Otherwise, I can generally see no logical reason to turn down activation. Certainly, I don't really see the WR bonus as offsetting the advantages presented to the Axis. With Spain on her side, Germany has easy access to Gibraltar (and thereby sealing the med, troop production (fighters), land bases for extended bomber attacks into the Atlantic, access to Portugal etc.... As for declining Italy, I can actually think of no good strategic reasons for this to occur. Perhaps some fans of this tactic can provide their reasoning! [:)]
 
Anyhow, I had noticed that the activation of the various nations was a bit idiosnycratic and was wondering what the purpose was for this. I am surmising that there was no purpose per se; rather it was in response to the way the game handles DOWs. It just struck me as odd to penalize Germany (with respect to WR) when she invades a country that is announced as having declared war! But, this is rarely an issue I suppose, as I almost always invade Greece.

[Lebatron]

True, there is hardly a good reason to refuse Spain. Back in development there was a debate that if Spain was turned down there should not be a 3 point increase to US WR. Joel/Gary wanted it that way no matter what choice the Axis player made. So basically there is almost no incentive to keep Spain neutral. However, in my mod and Brian's there's an event that gives a neutral Spain bonus troops when Portugal is invaded. Before the last patch is made, I would like to see this WR bump changed.

If you care to look, there are older posts that describe an early Barbarosa strat where the German player refuses Italian entry. Never tried it myself so I can't let you know if it's a weak/average/or strong strategy to employ.

[BoerWar]

ORIGINAL: Lebatron

If you care to look, there are older posts that describe an early Barbarosa strat where the German player refuses Italian entry. Never tried it myself so I can't let you know if it's a weak/average/or strong strategy to employ.

I think Schury may have been the first one I saw post that. I tried it a couple of times and didn't find it very successful. You can put very little pressure on England with this strategy and so as Lucky 1 noted an early invasion of N. Italy and a severe early thumping of Japan follow.[:(] Even if you have great success with a mid-late 1940 Barbarossa it isn't worth it in my opinion. Since then I never turn down an ally, but it is still nice to be asked.[:D]