CP supply in the late game

[SMK-at-work]

You used to be able to do it through continental Europe....Austria for example.....

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

You can't enter the Baltic with the Entente except for SUBS.

You need control of Constantinople so you either have to go through the desert, make a new Gallipoli or go through the Balkan.

If you mean by the "desert" going through Mesopotamia; I have tried that and it doesn't allow transfers through Russia from Basra. However, you can Strategically move multiple corps from Mesopotamia into Russia. So if the transport infrastructure allows for the movement of tens of thousands of men along with their equipment into Russia, via Mesopotamia and the Caucuses, then it should allow for transfers of resources and finished industrial goods along the same route.

[hjaco]

I mean what i write Lascar [;)]

You need to get to Constantinople which can be achieved from different directions one is through the coastal part of the desert.

Please look at my first note in this thread to you regarding shipment through Mesopotamia and the Caucasus.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: Lascar
So if the transport infrastructure allows for the movement of tens of thousands of men along with their equipment into Russia, via Mesopotamia and the Caucuses, then it should allow for transfers of resources and finished industrial goods along the same route.

I agree with you in some part in this though. Strategic movement should definitely not be possible that way.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

ORIGINAL: Lascar
So if the transport infrastructure allows for the movement of tens of thousands of men along with their equipment into Russia, via Mesopotamia and the Caucuses, then it should allow for transfers of resources and finished industrial goods along the same route.

I agree with you in some part in this though. Strategic movement should definitely not be possible that way.

While it may debatable as to how well developed the transportation infrastructure was in the Caucuses and Mesopotamia during the war, at least the rules should be internally consistent with regard to resource transfers and Strategic movement, since transfers are a function of Strategic movement in the game.

[wargamer123]

It's debatable, there wasn't much rails in Mesopotamia and the Caucasus Mnts in the WW1 era. I'm almost certain that the transfer of materials through such a perilious place would be far far too much effort. Now via the rails through TransJordan-Syria, up through Turkey I'm not sure. I do not know if there was much infrastructure in Eastern Turkey, but watching a show on TransJordan-Syrian Rails that were WW1 dated on the Travel Channel shows it was there and used frequently and anyone who knows about Lawrence of Arabia has a concept of it also, they still use the same WW1 rails there! So there was more capability than we might know locally at least and I'm sure tied into the OE during the time period in some way shape or form, but all the way to Russia? So the Rails were there but enough to carry qtr. of a million men? How quickly? Perhaps at a greater cost, perhaps there should be the ability at a -%50 cost. Or some other sort of penalty. Anyway

I have a question to pose on a few of you. Playing the CP several times now I've noticed how quickly the German resources hit rock bottom though morale-industry-food are all in tact and uncaptured. I'm a bit baffled... 7 Points??? She is supposed to gain strength as she progresses and Austria is equivelant to her with 6 points... This is on of my several current CP Games. There shows no -food -morale -anything I can see clearly... I'd like to know where my mysterious points are going. I thought she was base 8

[hjaco]

My reservation against comparing raw material transportation and troop transportation by train is based upon that first the requirement to the rolling material is fundamentally different and just as importantly the requirement to station facilities to load/unload the train is hugely different as well.

There was indeed some internal infrastructure between Syria/Jordan/Iraq in the OE. This was however primarily passenger transportation and had no connection to the Turkish part of the empire which was hugely undeveloped at that time as was the mountainous region of the Caucasus.

[hjaco]

I have a question to pose on a few of you. Playing the CP several times now I've noticed how quickly the German resources hit rock bottom though morale-industry-food are all in tact and uncaptured. I'm a bit baffled... 7 Points??? She is supposed to gain strength as she progresses and Austria is equivelant to her with 6 points... This is on of my several current CP Games. There shows no -food -morale -anything I can see clearly... I'd like to know where my mysterious points are going. I thought she was base 8
[/quote]

Maybe you lost some raw material hexes ? Some of them contain more than 1 raw material. I assume you remember to transfer surplus raw material from AH to Germany each turn and trade in the Baltic ? Same point with the urgency to link up with OE to transfer their raw material each turn.

This should bring your average up to at least 12-15 IP per turn.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

My reservation against comparing raw material transportation and troop transportation by train is based upon that first the requirement to the rolling material is fundamentally different and just as importantly the requirement to station facilities to load/unload the train is hugely different as well.

There was indeed some internal infrastructure between Syria/Jordan/Iraq in the OE. This was however primarily passenger transportation and had no connection to the Turkish part of the empire which was hugely undeveloped at that time as was the mountainous region of the Caucasus.

The aid that the TE would send to Russia would be primarily finished goods (weapons, ammo etc.) in game terms Industrial points. No sense in sending Russia raw materials resources, they have an over abundance of their own which their limited industrial capacity can never fully consume. Russia is sorely in need of industrial points to allow their army to reach its full military potential and much of TE strategy should be directed toward getting that aid through to Russia to fend off Revolution and the collapse of the Russian war effort.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: Lascar

ORIGINAL: hjaco

My reservation against comparing raw material transportation and troop transportation by train is based upon that first the requirement to the rolling material is fundamentally different and just as importantly the requirement to station facilities to load/unload the train is hugely different as well.

There was indeed some internal infrastructure between Syria/Jordan/Iraq in the OE. This was however primarily passenger transportation and had no connection to the Turkish part of the empire which was hugely undeveloped at that time as was the mountainous region of the Caucasus.

The aid that the TE would send to Russia would be primarily finished goods (weapons, ammo etc.) in game terms Industrial points. No sense in sending Russia raw materials resources, they have an over abundance of their own which their limited industrial capacity can never fully consume. Russia is sorely in need of industrial points to allow their army to reach its full military potential and much of TE strategy should be directed toward getting that aid through to Russia to fend off Revolution and the collapse of the Russian war effort.

Apparently you haven't faced a Russia first strategy as the Entente [:)] In that case food becomes the most scarce commodity for Russia. But even finished goods still needs facilities to transfer from ship to harbor and get it transported to facilities at train goods "terminals" and loaded again.

IMO it should neither be possible to transfer raw materials nor troops from Mesopotamia to Russia.

[boogada]

ORIGINAL: hjaco
IMO it should neither be possible to transfer raw materials nor troops from Mesopotamia to Russia.

I am currently facing an British Corps in Romania, that came from Egypt or Basra.... And I even saw the first Americans in Syria... Looks like the Eastern Scenaria will be very interesting for the rest of my game against Lascar.

[Lascar]

ORIGINAL: hjaco

ORIGINAL: Lascar

ORIGINAL: hjaco

My reservation against comparing raw material transportation and troop transportation by train is based upon that first the requirement to the rolling material is fundamentally different and just as importantly the requirement to station facilities to load/unload the train is hugely different as well.

There was indeed some internal infrastructure between Syria/Jordan/Iraq in the OE. This was however primarily passenger transportation and had no connection to the Turkish part of the empire which was hugely undeveloped at that time as was the mountainous region of the Caucasus.

The aid that the TE would send to Russia would be primarily finished goods (weapons, ammo etc.) in game terms Industrial points. No sense in sending Russia raw materials resources, they have an over abundance of their own which their limited industrial capacity can never fully consume. Russia is sorely in need of industrial points to allow their army to reach its full military potential and much of TE strategy should be directed toward getting that aid through to Russia to fend off Revolution and the collapse of the Russian war effort.

Apparently you haven't faced a Russia first strategy as the Entente [:)] In that case food becomes the most scarce commodity for Russia. But even finished goods still needs facilities to transfer from ship to harbor and get it transported to facilities at train goods "terminals" and loaded again.

IMO it should neither be possible to transfer raw materials nor troops from Mesopotamia to Russia.

I have faced a Russia first strategy several times. Food is critical for Russia, although it doesn't seem realistic that the loss of the Polish food producing areas is what creates the shortage. Ukraine and southern Russia where the breadbasket of Russia. Russia was the biggest exporter of wheat just prior to the war. Until the CP begins to advance into the Ukraine the Russian food reserves shouldn't be going into the negative.

The fact remains that the game mechanics currently allow for Strategic movement from Mesopotamia into the Caucasus and for the sake of consistency, transfers, which are a function of Strategic movement, should be allowed there too.

[wargamer123]

Thanks for the tip Hjaco, I did not notice my surplus of AH resources a bit and that raws are not all equal to just 1 raw point in the production board. Also a little afraid of transfering anything and losing too much rails... Germany really is hit very hard by the loss of Western Territories. I suppose accurate, the rich coal production, iron ore deposits



[/quote]
I have faced a Russia first strategy several times. Food is critical for Russia, although it doesn't seem realistic that the loss of the Polish food producing areas is what creates the shortage. Ukraine and southern Russia where the breadbasket of Russia. Russia was the biggest exporter of wheat just prior to the war. Until the CP begins to advance into the Ukraine the Russian food reserves shouldn't be going into the negative.

The fact remains that the game mechanics currently allow for Strategic movement from Mesopotamia into the Caucasus and for the sake of consistency, transfers, which are a function of Strategic movement, should be allowed there too.


[/quote]

Russia, should have a ton of bread and probably never starve. I do not not understand a revolution being caused by starvation or any of that. Though of course the world was a different place in WW1 and on this map allowing Russia to breeze through the game with giving of Poland-BeloRuss-Baltics-Portion of the Ukraine, etc... without any price is ahistorical. Though the Russians had a larger army, they have too much territory to give up and without some limits on her she'd just give away half her territory defend the food and just let the British-French ship in the extra through Mesopotamia. Which barely fielded troops on foot, let alone transfered much material in WW1. Those mountains were dreadful attrittion... Your sending thousands of tons of material through them? That just doesn't sound right. Though Bulgaria isn't exactly the Queen of Transport Either for the OE to Germany. But it has more rail than This region Northward to the Factories on the Volga and the Baltic. The Rail price should be doubled for either mission or tripled

SO the expense is realistic.

In WW2 when the Germans entered the Caucasus Mnts, they got stuck on high Mountains they could go no further, they could do nothing with the oil fields they captured. It was just too difficult too remote and a waste really...

South of the Caucasus, or North of them in my opinion, but in the middle there is a lot of impassable mountains..like a Strait in game terms

P.S. and exerpt from a website I was reading, real real basic reference to the rails in the region: In 1917, Russian Grand Duke Nicholas assumed senior control over the Caucasus front. Nicholas tried to have a railway built from Russian Georgia to the conquered territories with a view to bringing up more supplies for a new offensive in 1917. But, in March of 1917 (February in the pre-revolutionary Russian calendar), the Czar was overthrown in the February Revolution and the Russian army began to slowly fall apart.

[Disintegration]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

I have a save of a supply issue concerning the city of Athens (fixed) but if there's other supply issues please tell me and I will check them out asap.  Thanks!

Thanks. The one I had turned out to be the one that was fixed in 1.21 (I think). I'm not having it any longer with the latest beta.

[FrankHunter]

That's good to know, thanks