BIG BROTHER & 666 come closer to one another

[Ursa MAior]

You know guys I am a step ahead of you in cynism. You got from idealism to realism, well I am a pessimist. Dont you think that given the current technology a goverment cannot get ANY information on the population it desires? Hell sure it can. It did, it has and, it will. And even in stabile democracies like yours it wont have any serious consequences. That's the way it is.
 
Heed my advice look at what is going on in Eastern Europe cuz it shos how your country will look like in 10-20 yrs. My country e.g. is a democratical dictatorship at the moment, with an elected parliament running amok (Hitler and 1933 elections someone?), we have a two party system BTW much like US/UK/Germany/France. Civil society has no power, MPs cannot be recalled even serious mistakes have no consequences cuz the press is interested (financially and ideologically as well) in keeping the billionaire turned commies in power etc. Same like 20 yrs ago but this time it is not the russians but the press who helps the commies. Police brutality on the streets etc. Our future is not bright.
 

[mllange]

they dont disturb anybody but significantly decrease the chance of illegal penetration

Where is the proof that Europe has seen a significant decrease in illegal penetration (sounds kinky anyway) since implementing these kinds of controls or that the illegal penetration rate is any lower for Europe than the U.S. at present?

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior
...Dont you think that given the current technology a goverment cannot get ANY information on the population it desires? Hell sure it can. It did, it has and, it will.

That could well be true, UM, but it doesn't mean I have to open my arms to big brother.

The more I see it, the more I'm convinced this world is heading to some sort of Logans Run type world...the elderly are put to the end of the queue for health care (as already stated on these forums), people are being dictated to about what they should and shouldn't be doing...and I'm not talking about severe law breaking things here...I'm talking about general day to day stuff.

We really are getting into the "nanny" state in the UK.

The problem is, these measures they introduce "for our protection" actually put us in harms way should the information get out.

As I said, I was once a "why don't they take peoples DNA at birth, then there would be very few unsolved crimes", but now, I do not trust them one iota with my identification.

If they want to protect me, send the people who come into this country illigitimately back to where they came from. I open my arms to any one who wants to come into my country and work and live amongst us, not create their own little community (and that goes for brits abroad...they should mingle, not create their own little britain).

If they want to protect me, keep the murderers, rapists and pheadophiles in jail or, better still, kill the bastards - lets see how many of them re-offend then.

If they want to protect me, adopt foreign policies that work and help other countries, not oppress them.

If they want to protect me, let the police target the real criminals (lawyers and the like - jk) rather than Joe in the flat above who downloads music because he can't afford to buy it.

If they want to protect me, don't target me.

I do not want my phone calls monitored. I do not want my text messages monitored. I do not want my email monitored. I do not want what I watch on TV monitored. I do not want my internet activity monitored. I do not want big brother to install cameras in my house "for my safety". I do not want my mail sensored. I do not want propaganda thrown down my throat. I do not want the government to be my baby sitter.

[Reiryc]

Dang judge... you almost sound conservative for a change...  

Here are some words of wisdom that unfortunately we no longer heed here in the US because the protection is for our own good or worse, "it's for the children."



"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights. Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions."-- James Madison

"It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what is will be tomorrow."-- James Madison

"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."[font="script mt bold"]-- Thomas Jefferson

[/font]"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."[font="script mt bold"]-- James Madison

[/font]"We must confine ourselves to the powers described in the Constitution, and the moment we pass it, we take an arbitrary stride towards a despotic Government."[font="monotype corsiva"]-- [font="script mt bold"]James Jackson

[/font][/font]"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree."[font="script mt bold"]-- James Madison

[/font]"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."[font="script mt bold"]-- Thomas Paine

[/font]"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress."-- Mark Twain

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."-- Thomas Paine

[JudgeDredd]

Well, I know I've been labelled a lefty and a liberal in the past, but tbh, I don't belong or fit any of the "categories"....I believe in what I believe in...some of those views appera left of centre, some of them appear right of centre and some are just in the middle....that is who I am. [:D]

[JudgeDredd]

Meant to say, some good quotes there...although I don't have a scoobie what a couple of em mean!

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

Yohoo RH? Are you serious?
These and much stricter controlls are in place in Europe since decades, yet noone is really complaining about it. Why? Cuz they dont disturb anybody but significantly decrease the chance of illegal penetration. Dont tell me that you could simply just walk in any business building before 9/11! Soon you can enter a fed building only if you show your ID. So what? They register your enty and check against a central database. Again so what? You only have to fear it if you have done sthg illegal, which most of us dont so why are you upset?

So what is your problem?

One can argue you europeans do not mind because you have always been sheep. You were and still are mostly subjects. The EU is a perfect example, a huge Government apperatus of UNELECTED people deciding whay you can and can not do.

In the US it is supposed to be a Government of the people, by the people. We the people are supposed to be the boss, not some nameless buerocrat.

[JudgeDredd]

Lets not turn it into another US vs EU bashing thread.
 
TT, believe what you like. If you believe your government is by the people for the people...power to you.

[Ursa MAior]

ORIGINAL: nim8or

they dont disturb anybody but significantly decrease the chance of illegal penetration

Where is the proof that Europe has seen a significant decrease in illegal penetration (sounds kinky anyway) since implementing these kinds of controls or that the illegal penetration rate is any lower for Europe than the U.S. at present?

I meant illegal entering of buildings (busines and gvt alike).

[Ursa MAior]

JD
I wholeheartedly agree with you.

TT
I was not expecting more from you. [;)]

Edit
No, no. Must resist, must resist!

[Doggie]

What's the point of having a secure driver's license when the government issues them to foreign criminals on demand?

The 9/11 hijackers all had driver's licenses. Legitimate driver's licenses, issued to them by the states in which they lived. There are more than one million illegal immigrants in North Carolina, and nearly all of them have driver's licenses or state I.D. cards. All they have to do is walk into the DMV and ask for it. If they have a warrant out for their arrest, they simply go to the U.S. funded Mexican consulate and ask for an I.D. under another name, which they use to obtain another driver's license.

A secure driver's license will do nothing to find illegal aliens when we simply give them away to anyone who asks.[8|]

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

Yohoo RH? Are you serious?
These and much stricter controlls are in place in Europe since decades, yet noone is really complaining about it. Why? Cuz they dont disturb anybody but significantly decrease the chance of illegal penetration. Dont tell me that you could simply just walk in any business building before 9/11! Soon you can enter a fed building only if you show your ID. So what? They register your enty and check against a central database. Again so what? You only have to fear it if you have done sthg illegal, which most of us dont so why are you upset?

So what is your problem?

The problem is the right to privacy and freedom Ursa or did you not read or comprehend my post. I'm pretty sick n tired of being numbered for fricking everything. Birth certificates, drivers licenses, hell even licenses online, social security numbers, bank id numbers, numbers numbers numbers tags tags tags. Our constitution states that we are entitled to PRIVACY. Maybe you don't care about your privacy and you like to stick your nose in other peoples affairs and so does your government. That's one of the reasons we broke away from that nation in the first place. FREEDOM and RIGHTS. We caught criminals longggggg before there were ever numbers to place on them. Been doin it for 6000 years now or more as history dictates. So, I don't see this bs numbering anything more than an invasion of privacy. 666 is really already here when you can't get a job without an ID of some sort proving who you are, where you live, and who's your family. Maybe you like being tagged like a COW, I don't.

So... I would be more afraid of Neo-Fascism, Radical Patriotism, or government repression than I would the Anti-Christ.

Ahhhh but remember the Anti-Christ will be the biggest LIAR of them all and that is precisely what he/she/it wants you to believe. The Power of Christ compells you hahahaha

When you think of it this way 666 makes sense of what is taking place today around the globe (the numbering of everyone for one thing). Think about this don't you have your social security number "memorized" in what? your head!! And when you present your social security number what do you use to present it? Your Hand!! Even the initials of Social Security are what? S.S. well couldn't that S.S. also stand for Satans Sign?? Hrmmm. How coincedental that S. S. came about for social security when it was really to establish Satans Sign. This is something theoligians have been pondering as well. I perceive in the future that your S.S. number will be implanted as a microchip probably at birth either in the palm of ones hand or their wrists.

This system they are fixing to implement is just one step closer to 666 imho. I find it amazing that revalations is relavating pretty rapidly by todays standards. Now whether is represents the 2nd coming or not isn't really the issue I'm opposed to here. It's the numbering of everyone for control and less privacy and freedoms. I do see the day coming where you can't get a job or buy food without having the MARK (microchip in your palm or wrist). It's already half that way now getting a job. Try to get a job without some form of ID without it being general labor or doityourself types. Every place you go and "fill out an application" will REQUIRE that SS number and even other forms of ID.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Our constitution states (and we broke away from you blokes back in 1776 remember? stomped your Asses as I recall both in 1776 and 1812) that we are entitled to PRIVACY. Maybe you don't care about your privacy and you like to stick your nose in other peoples affairs and so does your government. That's one of the reasons we broke away from that idiot nation in the first place. FREEDOM and RIGHTS.

Actually the revolted in the “ Period of Neglect “ due to newly imposed taxation of common goods sparked the Revolution.

Your argument would fall under the Bill of Rights Passed by Congress September 25, 1789, Ratified December 15, 1791.
The American War of Independence was never about personal liberty’s ,but indeed was a tool the Founding Fathers put into law to govern their newly founded Nation

Just saying …….. if your going to take the sacrifice and courage out of context you should at the very least know our Nations history and its context.[;)]

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

Dang judge... you almost sound conservative for a change...  

Here are some words of wisdom that unfortunately we no longer heed here in the US because the protection is for our own good or worse, "it's for the children."



"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights. Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions."-- James Madison

"It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man who knows what the law is today can guess what is will be tomorrow."-- James Madison

"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."[font="script mt bold"]-- Thomas Jefferson

[/font]"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."[font="script mt bold"]-- James Madison

[/font]"We must confine ourselves to the powers described in the Constitution, and the moment we pass it, we take an arbitrary stride towards a despotic Government."[font="monotype corsiva"]-- [font="script mt bold"]James Jackson

[/font][/font]"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree."[font="script mt bold"]-- James Madison

[/font]"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."[font="script mt bold"]-- Thomas Paine

[/font]"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress."-- Mark Twain

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."-- Thomas Paine

Wow Reiryc those are all great quotes and so true, too bad they are just words without substance for all governments have no eye for the truth or being fair to their countrymen. They merely look for the loopholes left in the constitution to enslave us even more today than yesterday. Thank goodness for death, for that is the one thing our governments cannot put their hands on, though they did make a law that suicide is illegal hahahaha baw haw haw I find that one the funniest of all.

[ORANGE]

Excuse me but I  have a drivers license and a social security card and a mortgage which contains a lot of personal information as well.
 
How will this be a invasion of my privacy?
 
BTW:   I also have this old loon going through my garbage.  I think he is harmless, he is just old and looking for useful stuff.  I feel bad for him but is he invading my privacy?  Should I take arms against him to show him I am not a sheep?

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Our constitution states (and we broke away from you blokes back in 1776 remember? stomped your Asses as I recall both in 1776 and 1812) that we are entitled to PRIVACY. Maybe you don't care about your privacy and you like to stick your nose in other peoples affairs and so does your government. That's one of the reasons we broke away from that idiot nation in the first place. FREEDOM and RIGHTS.

Actually the revolted in the “ Period of Neglect “ due to newly imposed taxation of common goods sparked the Revolution.

Your argument would fall under the Bill of Rights Passed by Congress September 25, 1789, Ratified December 15, 1791.
The American War of Independence was never about personal liberty’s ,but indeed was a tool the Founding Fathers put into law to govern their newly founded Nation

Just saying …….. if your going to take the sacrifice and courage out of context you should at the very least know our Nations history and its context.[;)]

And there goes ole Sarge TROLLING again. I know our nations history bucko probably better than you do. I'm talking about our INDIVIDUAL rights granted not about sacrifice and courage you moron.

[ORANGE]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

ORIGINAL: Sarge

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Our constitution states (and we broke away from you blokes back in 1776 remember? stomped your Asses as I recall both in 1776 and 1812) that we are entitled to PRIVACY. Maybe you don't care about your privacy and you like to stick your nose in other peoples affairs and so does your government. That's one of the reasons we broke away from that idiot nation in the first place. FREEDOM and RIGHTS.

Actually the revolted in the “ Period of Neglect “ due to newly imposed taxation of common goods sparked the Revolution.

Your argument would fall under the Bill of Rights Passed by Congress September 25, 1789, Ratified December 15, 1791.
The American War of Independence was never about personal liberty’s ,but indeed was a tool the Founding Fathers put into law to govern their newly founded Nation

Just saying …….. if your going to take the sacrifice and courage out of context you should at the very least know our Nations history and its context.[;)]

And there goes ole Sarge TROLLING again. I know our nations history bucko probably better than you do. I'm talking about our INDIVIDUAL rights granted not about sacrifice and courage you moron.

But I am not sure that the right of privacy in the Bill of Rights is near broad enough to cover this. I have to show ID before I get on a plane now. Boarding a plane or driving a car are not rights.

[ravinhood]

But what I'm saying is they should be. When are they going to say we can't enter a car until ID'd is next eh? lol Some stupid computerized camara on every car or some electronical identification system you have to scan your WRIST or PALM of your hand accross to enter your own car...it's coming you wait. I think some of it is already here.

BTW: I also have this old loon going through my garbage. I think he is harmless, he is just old and looking for useful stuff. I feel bad for him but is he invading my privacy? Should I take arms against him to show him I am not a sheep?

Believe it or not but rifling through or even taking your garbage is one of the EASIEST ways to steal your IDENTITY. That old loon may not be an old loon at all, but, some loon that sells any information he finds about you in your garbage to someone else who is looking for that sort of information. I hope you shread all your important and vital information that you throw away.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

ORIGINAL: Sarge

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Our constitution states (and we broke away from you blokes back in 1776 remember? stomped your Asses as I recall both in 1776 and 1812) that we are entitled to PRIVACY. Maybe you don't care about your privacy and you like to stick your nose in other peoples affairs and so does your government. That's one of the reasons we broke away from that idiot nation in the first place. FREEDOM and RIGHTS.

Actually the revolted in the “ Period of Neglect “ due to newly imposed taxation of common goods sparked the Revolution.

Your argument would fall under the Bill of Rights Passed by Congress September 25, 1789, Ratified December 15, 1791.
The American War of Independence was never about personal liberty’s ,but indeed was a tool the Founding Fathers put into law to govern their newly founded Nation

Just saying …….. if your going to take the sacrifice and courage out of context you should at the very least know our Nations history and its context.[;)]

And there goes ole Sarge TROLLING again. I know our nations history bucko probably better than you do. I'm talking about our INDIVIDUAL rights granted not about sacrifice and courage you moron.

Wow,

How does one reply to such insightful debate


Here lets start again,

I'm talking about our INDIVIDUAL rights granted not about sacrifice and courage you moron

Elaborate please, What do you think grants you those “ Individual rights”

[ravinhood]

Wow you're an even bigger moron than I thought you were Sarge. What an IGMO. Wow just wow at his stupidity.

There is only one thing left to do since this is such a good an interesting thread (until the TROLL Sarge appeared that is notice he adds NOTHING to the TOPIC just attacking me again...what a moron). So, GREEN DOTTED YOU ARE SARGE...bye bye tah tah.