Tocaff vs bigred

[bigred]

I would like to complement Tocaff on his taking me on as a newby. We have played about 8 days real time and in senario 19 we at at 7-6-42. 2 months in 8 days, I think is fair progress. I was having rookie setup problems with the japs so tocaff aggreeded to get us going as the japs.

Playwise tocaff just took Guagdalcanal and tulagi on 7-4-42. I have lost my first 2 fleet carriers and the entire americal div. My sopac air wings are decimated, but sowestpac is ok. Got one hit on the akagi and one hit on cvl ruko?[:D]
I have told tocaff that the cubbard is bare around noumua. There is a grim dispare w/ the allied player as nippon commander expertly manipultes his units and in so doing teaches the game.
I was reading the treads and have wondered about my air wing mix because of the treads. Too late now. At this point I know how Gromley felt. The hammer just keeps coming.

[tocaff]

BR jumped out and deployed forward like I've never seen the Allied player do so I threw some naval troops in to keep him busy while I got and brought forward the KB and the IJA troops.  I took what he gave me in 2 different CV actions and then proceeded to hammer the Solomons, which I believe he was having a problem getting troops and supplies into.  The Solomons look secure with weak B-17 raids taking place.  NG looks to be our next test of strength, if I do as he suspects I will.  Newbies are fun to play against as they tend to bring some new things to the table that require changes in plans.

[Ike99]

BR jumped out and deployed forward like I've never seen the Allied player do so I threw some naval troops in to keep him busy while I got and brought forward the KB and the IJA troops. I took what he gave me in 2 different CV actions and then proceeded to hammer the Solomons, which I believe he was having a problem getting troops and supplies into. The Solomons look secure with weak B-17 raids taking place. NG looks to be our next test of strength, if I do as he suspects I will. Newbies are fun to play against as they tend to bring some new things to the table that require changes in plans.

Bigred you lost the entire Americal division? Did he do what Miller did in our game Tocaff and put the Americal Division at Lunga? How did he lose the entire division?

More details please.

[tocaff]

BR decided to make me work as the Japanese for what I took and deployed forward.  Americal was into Lunga and I kept him busy there with smaller naval units and then hit with the 2nd Div backed by support.  RIP Americal......Moral of the story is never deploy more than you can support and never go where you know your neck is stuck out to far for the expected chop.  All he has left as of July '42 in NG is Wau and PM and I think that those troops could be doomed also.  To really hang on to PM he will have to send the USN to fight with the IJN to keep the troops in supply and already PM in under steady air and naval bombardments.  Interesting game so far though.  If one looks to the future maybe the Japanese paying the price now will reap benefits for the Allies later.

[HansBolter]

Tocaff seems to be a busy beaver teaching noobs the ropes since he also recently started a game with me.

My first PBEM game also.

I also did something ill considered, on the first turn no less, albiet the consequencers were not quite so severe as losing two fleet carriers.

I decided to send a bombing mission to Rabaul on the first turn just to see if I could catch the base with it's pants down and no CAP up, sort of to make sure I keep them honest so they don't think they can get away with using the entire fighter force for escorts to PM.

I sent B-17s and Hudsons in at 15,000 feet in the hope that they might be high enough above any CAP to escape serious harm. The CAP devastated the vulnerable Hudsons shooting down 10 of them. The B-17s fared better with 2 damaged. I did minor damage to the port and didn't catch any ships at anchor.

Definitely a noobish move but I have found in life that the lessons learned the hard way are the one's that are best remembered. I'm sure many more blunders will follow, each with their lesson to be learned.

[tocaff]

If there is a player of UV, or any other game for that matter, who claims not to make mistakes then I'll show you a liar.  A mistake is OK until your opponent catches it and makes you pay.  It happens in real life so why not here?  Did the USN score big at Midway because they were better or lucky and prospered because of Japanese errors?  A good move is sometimes due to an error so noobish or vet we all are still learning new things from eachother in games and real life.

[Ike99]

Moral of the story is never deploy more than you can support and never go where you know your neck is stuck out to far for the expected chop.

[bigred]

In real life the 1st marine div was dropped at Lunga and left.  I am seeing the effect of extened sea lines of supply and lack of air cover.  In senario 19, without the battle of midway, it is/was suicide to deploy forward w/ the Americal.  I must admit I am cutting my teeth with this email game and could not wait to see some action.

Regards the loss of 2 US carriers, the original plan was for the lexington to show itself south of lunga to the Shokaku and Zuikaku, which did happen.  I wanted the TF to leave the area the next turn without incident.  In addition, my action report did not show the TF being seen by the jap recon.  So I decided to stay an extra turn.  I set all the SBD's to naval attack w/no naval search and guess what happened.  The Jap fleet showed up the next turn in the ajacent hex and sank the carrier w/ total surprise.  For me that was a major lesson learned.

The reason for the bait was that I had sent the yorktown on long Right N/W hook to Truk for a deep penetration raid into the jap oiler fleet.  I timed the attack to start on the 19 of June before the main jap carrier fleets started to arrive on the 24th.  This would have given me 3/4 days of shooting transports. One allied oiler was in tow.

     If the Lady Lex had done her job and drawn the jap carriers south, The Yorktown might have had time to get out, but the gods of war were not in the allies favor .   For all you nay sayers, my count is the japs have 8 oilers that arrive before the main carrier fleet.  My mission was to cut the umbical cord of the jap fleet.  Did not have enough power when I got there.  Want to here Todd's point of view.  We did shoot a few soldiers from the 144reg in the water about 90 miles from Truk.   LOL  BigRED

[tocaff]

The Yorktown was a total surprise when my recon spotted her.  I tried to run, but had nowhere to hide (merchantmen aren't exactly fast enough to run from CVs) and BR nailed some unlucky ships.  The Japanese CVs dealt with the Lex and then sailed north to intercept the Yorktown.  It was an interesting plan but splitting the fleet with understrength fighter sqds on the CVs was a bad idea.  It's the old is the possible gain worth the risk?  The IJN hasn't had a shot at anything else wothwhile since that early action.  The Allied troops at PM are looking at a grim situation at the moment and are tightening their belts.  I'm expect that the Aussies would put up a tougher fight than the Americal did, assuming that I want PM.  Maybe a rescue mission, either evac or supplies will attempt to aid them and it'll be my turn to hunt.

[borner]

Tocaff's comments about all players making mistakes is excellent. Also remember that part of the fun and maddening thing about this game is even if you come up with the perfect plan, there is no 100% assurance that the computer will execute things exactly as you wish. In UV games starting with no battle of Midway, it is clearly hard for the US to project any strength forward in 1942. Even holding PM will be very difficult. The trick it to make Japan take as many losses possible early, so long as the price paid by the US in ships is not too high. Even lost aircrarft hurt them far more than the US, as the quality of new pilots is not nearly as great.
 
 

[bigred]

8-8-42. At this moment I am awaiting news from my fleets and outpost(via e-mail). I bet Nimitz and Gormley felt the same sometimes(pass me a glass of milk).
Buna is alive with action. 2 brigades of aussies are defending against what combat reports show to be 2 ija regiments w/ attached tanket battalion. The allies have directed 70 b17's to visit the japs each turn, and the japs have positioned the combined fleet carrier TF 60 miles away to the northeast to provide ground support. My last report stated 97 val's and 125 Kate's pounded the aussies.

I am not sure when using the 15000ft minumum alt house rule if the B17's are having any effect. I noticed in one recent air battle over buna that 10 p40 khawks shot down 6 zero's and lost two themself, w/ the japs having over 80 zero's in the battle.

PM has been effectively nutralized as an airbase.

Allied command wonders if the japs plan to walk to Port Moresby rather than ride by sea.
A few turns ago a jap bombardmentTF decided to spend the day at PM and about 100 B26's said HELLO at 100ft.!!! The altitude setting for this game is an amazing feature.

Too bad the program can't be givin a priority ship target selection ability by the player.
In the case of PM, I would rather land based air have a target selection against transports before carriers.[8|] BIGRED

[Ike99]

In real life the 1st marine div was dropped at Lunga and left.

Hmmm...not for very long though. Just days really. They landed on the 8th and by the 12th the airfield was partially operational. By the 20th C47´s were flying between Espiritu Santo and
Guadalcanal bringing in supplies and evacuating the wounded.

Actually, although the Japanese Tokyo Express is more famous the Americans used this Express supply tactic very early in the battle.

Quoting from this site here in another window...

¨On 12 August Admiral Ghormley ordered Admiral McCain, commanding Task Force 63, to load all available destroyer-transports with
aviation gasoline and lubricants, bombs, ammunition, and ground
crews and dispatch them from Espiritu Santo to Guadalcanal.¨

and...

¨The arrival of fighter planes at Henderson Field permitted large ships to enter Sealark Channel in daylight with some degree of safety. The cargo ships Alhena and Fomalhaut, escorted by destroyers, succeeded in landing some supplies and weapons during daylight on 22 and 23 August, although one of the
destroyers was torpedoed and sunk. Seven destroyer-transports and
destroyers brought supplies to Guadalcanal and Tulagi on 29 August.¨

Although their supply line was precarious they were really just cut off a very short while.

But bringing this back to the game...if you put troops on Quadalcanal early the Japanese player will thank you and the more you put on there the more he´ll thank you. With the extra carriers he has in this hypothetical the Allied supply line will not be precarious at all because you will not have a supply line at all.

Check this AAR and read post number 4 down on the list...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1515151

[tocaff]

I'd like to thank BR for the free intel on troop strength at Buna, though it really doesn't make a difference.  It's possible that a walk from Buna to PM is in the cards.  Maybe in concert with a stroll from Lae.  Who knows I might even do an amphib assault too.  Come to think of it I might just do 1 or none at all as PM is a base in deep stuff without taking it.  

[Ike99]

Buna is alive with action. 2 brigades of aussies

How did two aussie brigades and their supplies get into Buna?
Who has Gili-Gili?

[bigred]

Dateline:8-11-42,  4xJap Carrier tf's near Buna have disappeared from Allied intel reports.  Buna is still in allied hands after three days of Banzia attacks.  Japs took GG with no contest around 7-25-42.  Remember the trail from PM to Buna.  Supplies were pre loaded into PM while the japs were busy w/ GC.

[tocaff]

I saw an Aussie movie on DVD yesterday about the Japanese advance along the trail from Buna to PM.  Apalling conditions suffered by the Aussies who eventually stopped the Japanese who couldn't keep their troops supplied.  It really pictured the malaria and dysintary problems well.  Amazing at how casualties due to nature were higher than those inflicted by the enemy.  BR is making a valiant fight of it in Buna, but is doomed to failure.  The greatest advantage the Japanese have in UV is interior lines so they can shift strength and supplies faster than the Allies can.

[borner]

Seems like most new UV players try to "defend forward" once or twice before understanding how strong Japan is early. I know I did, as have a couple of new people I have played. What a difference the Battle of Midway made!
 
Conditions in the jungle are bad enough, but terrible without enough supplies. Look what happened to Japan's troops in Burma as another great example.

[tocaff]

There's nothing worse than having lots of starving troops with no ammunition to fight with. How the Japanese did what they did in NG and SE Asia is a miraculous thing and a tribute to the common soldier that they had. I know that now we'll hear about a different culture, but still an empty stomach and little to no support are the same in all armies.

BR has managed to deploy forward and not only is getting his fingers caught in the cookie jar (and loped off), but he's managed to completely upset my plans and though my loses aren't to bad they're more than if he had sat back. If he wasn't a newbie I'd take Townsville or more likely Luganville, but I want him to get the feel for the game and get a chance to go on the offensive later on. Don't take this to mean that I'm taking it easy on him, 'cause I'm not. I think that to play a UV campaign it's great to get to be the Allies in '43 and flex those muscles.

[tocaff]

2 more days gone by and those Aussies are on the run from Buna with the IJA hot on their heels.  This leaves PM as a lonely outpost on NG.  I have also watched 2 USN CVs sail sneakily from Noumea and they are now just north of Cooktown.  This is a surprise that they have ventured this close to the combat area as BR knows that the KB has been operating here in support of the land campaign in NG.  Maybe the Japanese LBA will get a chance to land a punch or 2.

[bigred]

LOL, I would like to see the japs land at townsville or Luganville. LOL[:D]