RHS ship production

[el cid again]

You are laying an unfair charge at my feet: I do not accept responsibility for the problem of foreign ships.

Further I TOTALLY corrected the RTN problem -

marginally I reduced the cost by making two ships appear sooner - damaged - and you then invest a different kind of points (repair) to make them whole - but no longer warship points

marginally I reduced the cost to build subs by 20%

substantively I gave you the whole of the points you must pay - merchant, warship and repair - by giving you Royal Thai Dockyard capacity.

I reduced the German cost significantly (about 50%) and have offset the rest by giving you much more than the other 50% in added warship capacity (and in one case - a tanker - merchant capacity).

So this is bogus. I cannot change the fact the game "charges" you for ships which appear after it starts. I have mitigated it and then given you the points for the remainder. It isn't OK with me - but I cannot do more than I have done. So stop saying I like it. I didn't write the code - and as far as I know no one intends to let me patch it either.

Vichy ships were never a problem. Virtually all start the game - so they don't have to be "paid for." And there is a general problem with all captured ships - if they are to appear on the right date - they must be "built" - and that is true in everybody's mod and stock. You cannot escape it by going to a different mod - nor do Matrix or modders usually let YOU ask for changes which are implemented in a day or two.

I don't know what you want - but if you think I can change the few ships affected by this list (Thai, Vichy, German) - maybe you should be playing stock - which has none of them??? THEN you don't have to pay for them! I have given you the points to buy them - what more can I do?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Historiker


Go on as you want, if you don't understand this problem, there's no hope in further efforts to convice you - so I'll let you go on undiscussed and play another mod or change your Version in a much more historic way...

Do you mean I put in two man days of work and you won't look at it?

Talk about unreasonable. I report it is working - and you won't look at it?

[Historiker]

So this is bogus. I cannot change the fact the game "charges" you for ships which appear after it starts. I have mitigated it and then given you the points for the remainder. It isn't OK with me - but I cannot do more than I have done. So stop saying I like it. I didn't write the code - and as far as I know no one intends to let me patch it either.

Yes you can. You can add enough shipyard points for all foreign ships to the pool.
The same with the raised costs: you can add enough points to the pool to let a 131 durability TK cost as much as a 20 durability TK again by adding the extra needed points to the pool...

Add all the additionally needed points to the pool and you can still leave every ship it's old durability and let the foreign ships still be produced as before...

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

So this is bogus. I cannot change the fact the game "charges" you for ships which appear after it starts. I have mitigated it and then given you the points for the remainder. It isn't OK with me - but I cannot do more than I have done. So stop saying I like it. I didn't write the code - and as far as I know no one intends to let me patch it either.

Yes you can. You can add enough shipyard points for all foreign ships to the pool.

News flash: I just did that - and more. I reduced some of the costs, and added far more than the required cost to the capacity.

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Historiker


Go on as you want, if you don't understand this problem, there's no hope in further efforts to convice you - so I'll let you go on undiscussed and play another mod or change your Version in a much more historic way...

Do you mean I put in two man days of work and you won't look at it?

Talk about unreasonable. I report it is working - and you won't look at it?

Yes, you said everything is fine and denied that the need was 15 times higher than what Japan produces... You even said I'm talking bullshit when I claimed the need to be 15 times higher...

Have you made your tests with an enlarged pool to be able to know exact difference between what needed and what produced?
I guess not yet, as you didn't know how to raise the pool until I told you and until you didn't know how to calculate the ship costs until Ellendan told you...

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Historiker

So this is bogus. I cannot change the fact the game "charges" you for ships which appear after it starts. I have mitigated it and then given you the points for the remainder. It isn't OK with me - but I cannot do more than I have done. So stop saying I like it. I didn't write the code - and as far as I know no one intends to let me patch it either.

Yes you can. You can add enough shipyard points for all foreign ships to the pool.

News flash: I just did that - and more. I reduced some of the costs, and added far more than the required cost to the capacity.

If I had understood you correctly, you've raised the number of shipyards, not the number of points in the pool at the beginning, no?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Historiker


Go on as you want, if you don't understand this problem, there's no hope in further efforts to convice you - so I'll let you go on undiscussed and play another mod or change your Version in a much more historic way...

Do you mean I put in two man days of work and you won't look at it?

Talk about unreasonable. I report it is working - and you won't look at it?

Yes, you said everything is fine and denied that the need was 15 times higher than what Japan produces...

Because there is not. For one thing, I changed tankers from 4x to 3x - so they went from 16 times to only 9 times - and that was the worst case. For another thing, I have explained that you have confused the total number of ships in the list with the number that should/can be built: they are not the same thing - and it is wrong to make them all build. For another thing, I have run tests - and am finding a lot of things producing better. I don't want to overshoot this problem.
Finally - it is not possible to do a multiple like 15 - or 10 - or 5 -

and if one were to try it would take - oh - six months or more - for technical reasons - by which time WITP I will not be in use any more

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Historiker


Yes you can. You can add enough shipyard points for all foreign ships to the pool.

News flash: I just did that - and more. I reduced some of the costs, and added far more than the required cost to the capacity.

If I had understood you correctly, you've raised the number of shipyards, not the number of points in the pool at the beginning, no?

Yes. To understand the shipbuilding rate - I had to do it that way - for testing. But we can increase the starting pools - to compensate for some things we must pay for we should not have to pay for - now you explained how to do that. For which thank you. Vielen dank!

[el cid again]

For technical reasons scenarios differ: x.7895 level shipyard capacities are as follows:

CVO and RAO

warships 1299; merchants 1571; repair 1285

CAIO

warships 1299; merchants 1566; repair 1273

BBO

warships 1284; merchants 1526; repair 1240

RPO and PPO

warships 1299; merchants 1571; repair 1280

EOS

warships 1299; merchants 1541; repair 1270

AIO

warships 1299; merchants 1536; repair 1236

EEO

warships 1254; merchants 1496; repair 1184


The base points to start with are ten, twenty (EOS/AIO) or thirty (EEO) times these values.

By family:

CVO & RAO 12990 warships, 15710 + 4158 = 19868merchants
CAUI 12990 warships, 15660 + 4158 = 19818 merchants

BBO 12840 warships, 15260 + 4158 = 19418 merchants
RPO & PPO 12990 warships, 15710 + 4158 = 19868 merchants

EOS 25980 warships, 30820 merchants
AIO 25980 warships, 30720 merchants
EEO 37620 warships, 44880 merchants

to which we will add special cases

case 1: CVO and BBO families: for tankers delayed (4 ships) to prevent too much fuel mid ocean: 4158 points to merchants

case 2: CVO and BBO families: for German warships 102260 points
EOS family 108513 points

case 3: all scenarios: for German Ukermark: 24867 to merchants

case 4: all scenarios: for RTN vessels: zero because of Royal Thai Dockyards, and conversion of delay to damage points (2 cases)

case 5: all scenarios: For VFN vessels: 8660 warship points

case 6: all scenarios: for Ro-500 (which is U - 511) 6250 warship points

case 7: all scenarios: for Teia Maru (which is Arimis) 3670 merchant points

case 9: CVO and BBO families: for Conte Verde 10240 merchant points

case 10: all scenarios: For Okitsu (which is Lepanto) 160 warship points

case 11: all scenarios: for captured Allied barge and junk groups: 54288 merchant points

case 12: all scenarios: for captured Kachidoki Maru (which is President Harrison): 4510 merchant points

[el cid again]

I think the starting repair points should be = to the number of repair yards. There appears to be no way to change it in any case. Values in the repair yard pool are ignored. Apparently only local points are used - the pool is never looked at - and there is no way I know of to modify the local points at start.

In CVO and BBO families, not counting any compensation points, we should use ten days of production - because that is the normal industrial stockpile.

For EOS family we should use 20 to 30 days of production - because a war efficiently planned makes that possible. Presumably 20 for EOS and AIO, and 30 for EEO.

To which we can add the cost of German, Vichy, offset tanker (those not at sea appearing later to solve the problem of full tankers mid ocean), and possibly some other cases.

[m10bob]

Some may have forgotten the vanilla game only had 2 or 3(?) repair shipyards, and most newcomers are not even aware of the changes CHS/RHS have put into the game to improve it at so many levels.
I don't understand why a "free" mod creates so many hateful demands?
It is one thing to offer useful criticism, and make suggestions.
If CHS/RHS are not your cup 'O tea, and it is hard to remain civil, why not just move on, or, create your own mod? RHS has many authors, and Sid for the most part is its' "typesetter" and initial tester.

[el cid again]

grand total

CVO 130320 warship points + 117643 merchant points

this does not work - max value for fields appears to be 32 k (minus one) approximately

yep - 32 k (minus) limit

OK - here we go: I will do it anyway - by dumping 100 points per day into each pool.

This needs to happen by the 1020th turn (in the case of warships) - which at 100 points per day means 102,000 points.
130320 points minus 102,000 points = 38320 points to start. In addition, there are 465 more days in the game - so the player gets 46,500 additional points to compensate for ships which "cost too much" relative to before - points that come even if there is no other production. This value applies to CVO, RAO, CAIO, RPO and PPO.

For merchants this is similar, and is about 15643 points in the starting pool for CVO and RAO - while CAIO is about 15593 points.

[Historiker]

Is some extra HI added to feed the new shipyards?

[el cid again]

Yes - but not much. Only in places where it should have been and was not. And on both sides. HI - at least - can be captured.

[Historiker]

thx for information...

[el cid again]

I will now run a test (using CAIO) with these initial settings. 4 hours from now I will consider the results - and maybe upload.

[el cid again]

Aside from techjnical problems on my main station (virus)

I don't like ship producition yet

and I am confused by differences in numbers between scenarios

investigating

[okami]

In 7.7895 CVO the merchant pool is still 100 and the Naval pool is still 200. I thought these pools were to be adjusted to compensate for Thai ships and overly expensive AO/TK's?

[el cid again]

You are misreading the screen: it does not show a pool of 100 - it shows 100 arriving per day.

Merchants show 150 per day.

Multiply times 1020 turns and you get the number of points added to the pool to pay for foreign ships (in the case of warships) - after that date the extra is compensation for increased ship costs over stock.

The initial pools are 28320 naval and 21643 merchant. These correspond to huge total game totals.

IF you see 200 (not 150) in the merchant position - you have the old location file. The 100 is the same - so you can't tell from that.

After verifying the source files are right in this respect, I have reuploaded just location files - to insure you have them.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

You are misreading the screen: it does not show a pool of 100 - it shows 100 arriving per day.

Merchants show 150 per day.

Multiply times 1020 turns and you get the number of points added to the pool to pay for foreign ships (in the case of warships) - after that date the extra is compensation for increased ship costs over stock.

The initial pools are 28320 naval and 21643 merchant. These correspond to huge total game totals.

IF you see 200 (not 150) in the merchant position - you have the old location file. The 100 is the same - so you can't tell from that.

After verifying the source files are right in this respect, I have reuploaded just location files - to insure you have them.

Naval Shipyards 1299(200)
Merchant Shipyards 1571(100)
No change with last update. Naval Shipyard in pool 200 Merchant shipyard in pool 100.
CVO 7.7895 (insurance)
I am not misreading the screen. The screen I am reading is the Industry/Troop/Resource screen.