Commonwealth Supply Bases on Maleme

[Mehring]

I recently turned my hand to playing against the German AI in the historical Maleme campaign. What I've found is at least three of my supply bases that have no shortage of supplies but which will not process supply requests. They just sit there and do nothing all week while their drawing units starve. What is common to all of them is a very low (4%) personnel level. This is not due to combat results, they started off like that.

I don't know how to interpret the numbers in the the Dep tab, like whether 146/152 means a shortfall of 6 or whether the two numbers refer to quite different things, but the bars are all very blue, including the payload bar. Supply bases that do their job don't seem to have a full blue payload bar.

Is this a design feature? If so, what's the historical rationale?

[simovitch]

The ANZAC Brigade bases on Crete do seem to have a much lower headcount than the bases used in Greece and elsewhere. I'm not sure of the historical significance though, but it was probably thought through at some level.

This translates to not enough grunts to load the trucks, thus the big blue bar showing empty trucks sitting in the yard waiting to be loaded. The numbers are truck capacity and they mean: tonnes in use/tonnes available. The trucks are considered "in use" after they are loaded and on their way.

Handeling is approximately the number of tonnes that can be loaded in an hour which is a function of how many personnel there are employed at the base. You can see that it will take a very long time to load all them Brigade trucks.

The Divisional Bases have more than enough capacity and handeling but the backlog is occuring at the Brigade level. And for some reason the CREFORCE Corps Base begins the game at 10% strength. It sounds like someone was trying to represent a very strained Allied supply situation on Crete.

Again, I can't comment on the actual reason for the low PersQty as I was not a part of the early COTA development team.

hope this helps.

[Mehring]

Yes, excellent reply, many thanks.

I didn't check the CREFORCE base personnel level but at least it delivers something. Perhaps the question to put to the designers, then, is "did you mean for little to get through to the dependents of these bases, or for nothing?" Nothing is what is happening, even if dependents are sitting on top of the bases.

In passing, for ASL players who want some historical map action on the island, anticipating the release of this, supposedly next month, is losing me sleep-

http://www.heatofbattle.com/kreta.php

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Mehring

Perhaps the question to put to the designers, then, is "did you mean for little to get through to the dependents of these bases, or for nothing?" Nothing is what is happening, even if dependents are sitting on top of the bases.

If it were me, I wouldn't choke the supply line at the lowest echelon to simulate a supply crunch, that doesn't seem realistic. All that does is provide plentiful supply to divisional support assets but penalizes the poor line companies. I would limit the delivery to/from the Corps Base by adjusting the off-map delivery schedule down a bit.

Unless the designer steps up and tells me otherwise, this may need to be reworked.

[Mehring]

I just went back to the campaign and noticed that it's not just brigade level bases, the 2nd NZ divisional base also suffers from this low manpower and indolence. The Greek regimental bases seem to be ok and can even supply some NZ units, I notice. If I get the time and we don't here from someone that this is all historically accurate, I'll take a more thorough check of which bases work and which don't.

[Arjuna]

Steve Long did the original research for the crete scenario. I do recall at the time him mentioning that the NZers were short of many things. However, they did manage to resupply their guys with some supplies. In Steve's defence he did most of the original scenario designs before we had finished the new resupply system.
 
In any event the Bde Bases should function even if at a reduced capacity.
 
Do you have a saved game I could look at that clearly demonstrates a lack of supplies getting through? Ideally one before a resupply event ( 0600 and 1800 each day ) and one after. Then I can check out exactly what is going on. Thanks.

[Mehring]

Sure, I can save it just before a supply event as I'm still playing it. Can you remind me where to send it?
Thanks.

Just checked and the only NZ base that functions is 19 Brigade, with 52% personnel. I Lost one NZ base in this game, but it didn't work and all its dependents have had their supply requests redirected to a similarly non-functioning base.

[Arjuna]

support[at]panthergames[dot]com

[simovitch]

I ran the scenario through to the 1st supply event at 18:00. The NZ bases that start with their personnel reduced to 10% are not processing supply requests. Another good catch Mehring.

[Mehring]

You sure simovitch, I thought it was just the 4% bases that didn't work? Formations drawing from Creforce base draw supplies ok, and that's on 9%

Someone's gonna shoot me if this delays the patch again, I might even shoot myself. Ah, lucky, no gun.

[simovitch]

No, I'm not sure, I didn't look at all the bases - 4% seems very low.

It won't delay the patch If It's just a problem with adjusting the personnel quantities right in SM, and keep Dave on the programming track.

I think the way to go is adjust all the bases back to 100% and lower the daily supply priorty levels down to 10-20%. That would take about 15 minutes.

[Arjuna]

There is code in there that says a Base cannot siphon off personnel to resupply columns once its strength drops below 50 personnel. I have received your saved game but have not yet tested it. I bet this is the cause. The obvious fix is to increase the personnel of the Bde Bases.
 
Richard,
 
Could you please do so in any event. Thanks.

[Mehring]

I just checked the at start supply bases and all of 4, 5 and 10 brigade and 2 division bases are at 50 men or less. The other Crete historical scenario bases are better staffed.

By all means drop me a line if you need any help testing the change.

[Fred98]

What effect does this have on game play? 
 
Does it effect other scenarios?
 
-
 

[Mehring]

More or less all the NZ units that begin the scenario on map, once they have exhausted their supplies, won't get any more. So, the most immediate effects will be the irreversable depletion of arty ammo, then units will begin to run out of basics leading to their inability to recover from fatigue or move at more than a snail's pace. Then, with a few days of combat, the other supplies will run out. If you're lucky, after 4 or 5 days you'll end up with a mass of exhausted, defenceless troops which can barely move out of trouble's way. Otherwise you'll end up with their crosses dotting the map.

The overall effect is to shift the balance of play heavily in favour of the Germans. Even maintaining pressure on Maleme airfield is a fantasy as all the troops that begin within striking distance will run out of supplies.

With supplies, these troops can maintain pressure on Maleme. Possibly, they'll be able to hold on long enough for reinforcements and then counter attack with a chance of sucess. Otherwise, a retreat into the interior would be possible, to maintain a real threat to the airfield. This could be effected even with small troop numbers, forcing the Germans to divert significant troop numbers from the drive to Souda just to maintain security of supplies and a hold on the airfield. Unsupplied troops attempting such a strategy will enable the Germans to reverse the ratio, ie. a few Germans holding against many NZs, because the Germans will be able to move much faster in response to threats and be able to deal with them so much more effectively.

Those NZ troops that retreat to the east will be that much more effective in delaying the German advance. It will be a very different scenario when this is fixed, or it could be, anyway, depending upon how much supplies the fix gives these troops.

[simovitch]

I found several other Crete scenarios that had the same problem and fixed these as well. I also made spot checks on the other COTA scenarios featuring the Kiwis.

So on Crete the Allies will have plenty of supply at start but not much at all coming in through the SEP's. You should start feeling the pinch by the end game instead of 2-3 days into it.

[FredSanford3]

So much for feeling all proud of myself for forcing an Allied surrender last time I played this.

Rain>Parade>Me

[Arjuna]

Just think how proud you will be when you repeat the performance after the patch 3 is out. [:)]

[Mehring]

I forced a few surrenders too, a great boost for a relative newb. It made me curious to see how the boot fitted on the other foot, and I still managed to clear Prison Valley of Krauts, for a while at least. Got to Day six, 0801 hours and the game crashes there every time. It happened at another fixed point on a previous game but I didn't save it.
 
I'm resending this game to support, saved just a few seconds before the crash.

[Arjuna]

Mehring,
 
I emailed you a response. [:)]