x.7895 issues and 7.7896 uploading

[el cid again]

x.7895 were about AIO and CAIO - mostly - before issues of ship production and AAA were raised

and I reworked them carefully - tests having shown AI needed more help

they are late scenarios and not as well developed as they should be - particularly because they need more than even is
possible to fulfill their mission

these are TRAINING scenarios - so you can learn how RHS/WITP works without being embarassed
but AI is NOT going to win - or do very well - ever. Sorry.

Both AIO and CAIO have all river ports erased - to help the AI - and I just checked every one in both again - to be sure.
ALL Level 7 scenarios now uploaded.

Levels 5 and 6 are done- but you must ask for them.

Note for newbies: In spite of logic, AI is not intelligent - and AIO and CAIO may NEVER be used for AI control of the Allies. Sorry.
Same in all forms of WITP - AI is not up to even a poor job as the Allies.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

x.7895 were about AIO and CAIO - mostly - before issues of ship production and AAA were raised

and I reworked them carefully - tests having shown AI needed more help

they are late scenarios and not as well developed as they should be - particularly because they need more than even is
possible to fulfill their mission

these are TRAINING scenarios - so you can learn how RHS/WITP works without being embarassed
but AI is NOT going to win - or do very well - ever. Sorry.

Both AIO and CAIO have all river ports erased - to help the AI - and I just checked every one in both again - to be sure.
ALL Level 7 scenarios now uploaded.

Levels 5 and 6 are done- but you must ask for them.

Note for newbies: In spite of logic, AI is not intelligent - and AIO and CAIO may NEVER be used for AI control of the Allies. Sorry.
Same in all forms of WITP - AI is not up to even a poor job as the Allies.

Ah Sid come on. You have once again regressed to your soap box. Yes we know WITP is not well suited in anyway to have a computer player. Yes we know AIO & CAIO are your offers of a sandbox "training" game. I get so tired of hearing this sad old song. You must be tired of singing it. I am a fan of your work. You need not keep trying to "rub my" or our noses in it as your crusade against the evils of our enjoying playing solo games. We get it!!!

All this early this morning before coffee and checking out the new CAIO update. Jeez!!!

[Mifune]

The current versions of RHS level 7 and 6 have been uploaded to the RHS web site. I am still waiting to recieve RHS level 5.

[1EyedJacks]

Hi all,

Does this mean there is a patch for EOS and EEO available now?

[el cid again]

Yes it does. And if you are on the primary distribution list, it is in your inbox (unless your service has a problem). Levels 6 and 7 are on the RHS site as well. I have yet to send Mifune Level 5 - because there is a Level 5 user and I need to remember who that is - for the upload.

[m10bob]

An error of the Chinese AF exists in the latest version of RHSCVO, 7.7895, in that slot#1073 has them using the Ilyushin DB3, and in slot #1076 has them with the SB2m,(which is a later model than the one they had).
During the war, I can find NO Chinese usage of any Ilyushin aircraft, whatsoever.
The Chinese did have (during or prior to the war), Heinkels (early He111a models), Fords, Curtiss, Lockheed, Douglas, Polikarpov, Tupolev,North American,Republic, Vultee, Gloster,Fiat.

The Japanese even had a puppet state air force within China (Cachin) using the Japanese Tachikawa Ki-36 for army close support, known as the Ida to the allies as it was armed.
(The Japanese also armed their allies in Mongolia and Thailand with this plane.

[Mifune]

Alright the current RHS level 5 scenarios have now been uploaded to the RHS web site.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

An error of the Chinese AF exists in the latest version of RHSCVO, 7.7895, in that slot#1073 has them using the Ilyushin DB3, and in slot #1076 has them with the SB2m,(which is a later model than the one they had).
During the war, I can find NO Chinese usage of any Ilyushin aircraft, whatsoever.
The Chinese did have (during or prior to the war), Heinkels (early He111a models), Fords, Curtiss, Lockheed, Douglas, Polikarpov, Tupolev,North American,Republic, Vultee, Gloster,Fiat.

The Japanese even had a puppet state air force within China (Cachin) using the Japanese Tachikawa Ki-36 for army close support, known as the Ida to the allies as it was armed.
(The Japanese also armed their allies in Mongolia and Thailand with this plane.

Actually - I just changed ROCAF significantly - and no version of WITP has this new OB - which unfortunately is slightly simplified.
The ROCAF had a wide variety of aircraft - often in penny packets - and also by 1941 - often most of which were lost. There were indeed Iluyshin aircraft - stock even had the IL-4 in ROCAF but not in Soviet air forces. It DID serve in China before the Soviet Far East too.
I found a detail OB unit by unit. The problem is, many units change names - or even disband. And while a unit is listed with all its types, dates are not given, and often it had several types at the same time. So just what to include is a bit of an interpretation. In some cases I also had to use similar aircraft rather than the right aircraft - because of slot limits. Also - we have only one upgrade setting per type - so sometimes you get the wrong options. But it was a big complicated mix - and we have manages to get that pretty close.

I affirm this unit - which is 10th squadron of 8th bomb group - was operating this aircraft - it is not just close - it is right. My memory says that the same aircraft is or was in CHS - but in the wrong squadron. I was more surprised by things like B-24s and B-25s than by this.

While Ida is in RHS - it is not present in its primary form. We basically ignore observation planes and trainers - and this plane served mainly in both roles. It is in RHS (and stock and CHS) because of its other roles - ground support - and in RHS also it is used to represent similar planes in the private air force of Unit 731 (biological warfare). A few Allied observation planes are in where they were used for maritime patrol and recon - as are a few airliners and civil flying boats on each side - but mostly we don't do civil aircraft, trainers or observation planes. You can think of the Chinese Puppet Regime planes as being part of the 1st and 2nd Ground Support Units if you want to - which are exceptional cases. We also did put them into RTAF. They aer not in IMAF - nor in the Indonesian Anti Dutch AF - because they were in such small numbers they must have been observation planes - not bombers. But it is possible some units of these should be in. I hate to do too much of this - players tend to ignore politics - and you will find puppet air forces used aggressively - and upgrading to other aircraft in many games (I suspect).

[Buck Beach]

Are you contemplating any updates after reviewing the results of the recent AAA test runs?

[el cid again]

No. But I have not looked at any reports from others this morning yet. So far I fail to detect any problems whatever - even the one I think may exist (very heavy DP guns - specifically the battleship main guns - not the Richeleiu 6 inch).

[Buck Beach]

Another question.  I just looked at the CVO. what happened to all the Allied riverboats?  Note ,I do not play this scenario.

[el cid again]

CVO was lost. It was rebuilt using CAIO files - and of course there are no river boats in CAIO. RHSRAO is the same scenario - but it has active Russians - and it DOES have the river boats. I seem not to have remembered to recreate them - and there is no easy way to do that. The main difference between scenarios is in the ship files.

Note that this ONLY applies to Level 7 - Level 5 and 6 CVO were not lost - and so players can have CHS like maps - in 5 - or RHS like maps - in 6 - if they simply must play CVO (it exists to please those who want passive Russians - not for me)

I will think about how to address this - but there is no nice solution from my point of view. CVO at the moment is more like CAIO than intended because it was rebuilt using CAIO files.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: m10bob

An error of the Chinese AF exists in the latest version of RHSCVO, 7.7895, in that slot#1073 has them using the Ilyushin DB3, and in slot #1076 has them with the SB2m,(which is a later model than the one they had).
During the war, I can find NO Chinese usage of any Ilyushin aircraft, whatsoever.
The Chinese did have (during or prior to the war), Heinkels (early He111a models), Fords, Curtiss, Lockheed, Douglas, Polikarpov, Tupolev,North American,Republic, Vultee, Gloster,Fiat.

The Japanese even had a puppet state air force within China (Cachin) using the Japanese Tachikawa Ki-36 for army close support, known as the Ida to the allies as it was armed.
(The Japanese also armed their allies in Mongolia and Thailand with this plane.

Actually - I just changed ROCAF significantly - and no version of WITP has this new OB - which unfortunately is slightly simplified.
The ROCAF had a wide variety of aircraft - often in penny packets - and also by 1941 - often most of which were lost. There were indeed Iluyshin aircraft - stock even had the IL-4 in ROCAF but not in Soviet air forces. It DID serve in China before the Soviet Far East too.
I found a detail OB unit by unit. The problem is, many units change names - or even disband. And while a unit is listed with all its types, dates are not given, and often it had several types at the same time. So just what to include is a bit of an interpretation. In some cases I also had to use similar aircraft rather than the right aircraft - because of slot limits. Also - we have only one upgrade setting per type - so sometimes you get the wrong options. But it was a big complicated mix - and we have manages to get that pretty close.

I affirm this unit - which is 10th squadron of 8th bomb group - was operating this aircraft - it is not just close - it is right. My memory says that the same aircraft is or was in CHS - but in the wrong squadron. I was more surprised by things like B-24s and B-25s than by this.

While Ida is in RHS - it is not present in its primary form. We basically ignore observation planes and trainers - and this plane served mainly in both roles. It is in RHS (and stock and CHS) because of its other roles - ground support - and in RHS also it is used to represent similar planes in the private air force of Unit 731 (biological warfare). A few Allied observation planes are in where they were used for maritime patrol and recon - as are a few airliners and civil flying boats on each side - but mostly we don't do civil aircraft, trainers or observation planes. You can think of the Chinese Puppet Regime planes as being part of the 1st and 2nd Ground Support Units if you want to - which are exceptional cases. We also did put them into RTAF. They aer not in IMAF - nor in the Indonesian Anti Dutch AF - because they were in such small numbers they must have been observation planes - not bombers. But it is possible some units of these should be in. I hate to do too much of this - players tend to ignore politics - and you will find puppet air forces used aggressively - and upgrading to other aircraft in many games (I suspect).

Sid, please allow me to fall back and re-group. I just checked the Chinese website which I put in the scenario research sub-forum just above, and my very first post is that of the Chinese air force: http://cwlam2000hk.sinaman.com/index.htm

They did indeed have the DB4 aircraft!
(Perhaps they were used to replace SB units, (since most of their order of 200 were lost during the Sino-Japanese war)?
That website also shows a lot of other planes found in no version of WITP, so if AE can create more slots, maybe some of them can find their way in?

Another problem I found with the RHSCVO 7.7895 is that the Vickers Vildebeest/Vincent torpedo bomber version lost its' slot# 93 18in torpedo, and has been replaced with the slot#92 82mm Mortar!.(I can only hope we don't find grunt units running around trying to shove torpedoes toward their opponents.)

[el cid again]

wierd - this happens from time to time - because I use Matrix Editor which moves things one slot (for fun?)


it is faster than other editors and I maintain 22 scenario file sets


It is wrong in 70 to 74 at the aircraft level

but who is going to upgrade to a Vildebeeste? Not going to be a problem I am sure. Unless you upgrade to this plane, this weapon will not show up.

I will of course fix it.

Just figured out how to fix CVO - use RAO ship file - and date change every Soviet sub to 1945 - otherwise it will work. Still - a lot of work.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

wierd - this happens from time to time - because I use Matrix Editor which moves things one slot (for fun?)


it is faster than other editors and I maintain 22 scenario file sets


It is wrong in 70 to 74 at the aircraft level

but who is going to upgrade to a Vildebeeste? Not going to be a problem I am sure. Unless you upgrade to this plane, this weapon will not show up.

I will of course fix it.

Just figured out how to fix CVO - use RAO ship file - and date change every Soviet sub to 1945 - otherwise it will work. Still - a lot of work.

We know you like to tinker, but you don't deserve bad things like this happening to your projects.

[el cid again]

1) Some air group orders can help AI in AIO and CAIO.

2) RAO ship file can be used to fix CVO river craft - but requires date delaying Soviet submarines.

3) I may be able to fix an error in stock and all WITP forms re ROA HQ 106 - and will try

4) I just calibtated Japanese warship construction (measured). 317 more points per month permit building everything (which is too much). So we will add somewhat fewer shipyards - and that will work.

5) I have tried and failed to calibrate merchant ships - 850 more points per month are not enough. This is going to require some work - but first we have to have a numerical goal. Will try again with 1850 more per month .

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: el cid again

wierd - this happens from time to time - because I use Matrix Editor which moves things one slot (for fun?)


it is faster than other editors and I maintain 22 scenario file sets


It is wrong in 70 to 74 at the aircraft level

but who is going to upgrade to a Vildebeeste? Not going to be a problem I am sure. Unless you upgrade to this plane, this weapon will not show up.

I will of course fix it.

Just figured out how to fix CVO - use RAO ship file - and date change every Soviet sub to 1945 - otherwise it will work. Still - a lot of work.

We know you like to tinker, but you don't deserve bad things like this happening to your projects.

well - it was my fault - I copied over all backups before I detected a file copy in the orignal CVO file set - and I no longer had a CVO set. Too much work had been done to go back - and I should have made more backups and not copied over every one. I was tired and lazy.

[m10bob]

FWIW, I likely have copies of every RHS file sent since day one(?), especially RHSCVO 6. as I have only been with ver 7 approx 5-6 months?

[el cid again]

CVO in Level 5 and 6 are OK - just Level 7 - and the problem (river vessels) isn't terrible either: no one outside the RHS world ever gets them anyway.

The problem when the Level 7 CVO file was lost is that - going back involed a lot of work - and that would not even be possible now - I don't know what it was in the record by record, field by field sense - nor exactly how many of those records have changed since? But this is not really a big problem - just a pain - involving datat entry for me.

The second ship building test indicates we are close to the right value for merchants - only one ship failed to build. I will re run at 2000 points per day over (vice 1850) which should let me measure it precisely (it being what is needed on the average to get every ship). Once we know that we can figure the fraction we want you to have. 2000 points is too much - so I must do something about that. ]

The second test also indicated the daily requirements for warships is 78 points per day less than I first measured. it is not going to be hard to get this right.

I might complete 7.7896 tomorrow.

[el cid again]

The third test still showed insufficient merchant tonnage - addint nearly 3 million points (game total) to the start values plus the 150 per day compensation for foreign builds. This is going to be a problem to fix. But first I have to measure it. Trying 2500 per day over the 150 (up from 2000) -

but warships surpluse still was 73 points per day too high - and building all. We are down to a requirement of 149 points per day more than we start with - and that means warships can stand as is. I don't want players to be able to build everything. Nevertheless, I will correct (aiming for zero) - so we know precisely what is needed.

The merchant problem seems focused on three classes of tankers - so it may not be too hard to sollve.

I forgot this - but we also added many two ship units (DE and MSW for example) - and these too increased total build requirements. But probably thousands of small craft matter more than it seems. Many build during the war. A Japanese LC unit has 48 durability points -
and that is 23,040 build points - although you are representing 48 vessels - and more correct than only the few in non RHS mods - you still need to generate those points. Also - it is unreasonable to think one needs more than 1.3 years to build a landing craft - even if one includes long lead time. Soft coding is better design philosophy. And in WITP I we lack the slots to go over to smaller groups of landing craft - note RHS does not really give you all of them. Those carried by ships are abstract - only separate organized companies are in the mod. So it might help if we let a durability point represent 2 x LCMs, reducing cost to 5760 points.