MTW XL MOD Greatest Mod Ever!

[orwell]

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

Would you Ravinhood, or anyone else for that matter, know of any mods for MTW2 on the horizon, that would make it playable? Do you know if the RTR team has plans to do anything? MTW2 was on my hard drive for all of a week before I shelfed it. How can MadMinute, with their limited resources produce a similiar game (in respect to the combat element) that is so dynamic and good, but CA cannot? Sad, as I actually enjoyed Shogun and the First MTW (with the XL MOD) and to a lesser degree the Rome Total Realism Mod but have sworn not to make another purchase from CA until I find them in the baragin bin and have knowledge of a mod that makes it worth my time.

Europa Barbarorum has a mod which, IMO, well outdoes anything RTR has accomplished, and they are porting to EB2. http://www.europabarbarorum.com/index.html

I'm blind, it's already been mentioned above. Oh well.

[ravinhood]

 The sad thing about any mod for RTW is it doesn't improve the AI they just give it more resources or increase the stats. M2TW isn't quite as bad as RTW in the AI department (I think they allowed scripting the AI in M2TW), but, it it still too stupid for veteran experienced gamers I mean to the rediculous stupid levels. I can tolerate Shogun and MTW origional, but, I tried several of the mods others made for RTW (M2TW I just gave completely up on) and found that only the one I made really made a difference in the challenge that "I" wanted. I wanted long battles and lots of deaths with very little routing, those other mods never provided that. The routing issues were still there in others mods and routing was the major issue in RTW to begin with. I don't know why anyone would enjoy 20 second battles or even just 2 minute battles. MTW origional and my mod versions have 45 minute battles. Only dam thing wrong in RTW with that is you can't save those epic battles for viewing later in it like you can MTW and that's another thing that makes MTW origioinal so great. You can save every battle and watch it again an again an again. I have some saved that were over an hour long....what a great game. 

[orwell]

MTW seems to hate me, crashes every time there's a battle in XL, haven't tried just the original yet, but the display seems rather screwed up as well.

Ravinhood, have you tried SPQR? It sounds like something that might hold your interest, though as you said there's only so much that can be modded.

[ilovestrategy]

I like Morrowind, Daggerfall and Oblivion. I can play any of them and have a good time. [:)]

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

I like Morrowind, Daggerfall and Oblivion. I can play any of them and have a good time. [:)]

I have to say, in all fairness, that I DO enjoy Oblivion after about (non-exaggerated) 2-3 gigs worth of mods for it. Both in what I was saying here, and in the review of it that I mentioned that isn't online yet, I was only referring to the game straight out of the box and mod-free. Granted, most would probably find it horribly frustratring that a level 1 character in my modded version can generally only survive through a combo of sheer luck and cunning, but this to me makes the game much more entertaining and adds some real incentive to both power that character up through levelling, and seperately complete quests in order to gain money, which becomes much harder to come across.

I loved Morrowind right out of the box- never really played Daggerfall because the computer I had at the time didn't get along with it.

[ravinhood]

I liked Daggerfall best because it really never ended. You never had to follow the storyline, but, you could get 1000's of quests as each an every npc in the game could lead you to one in each town or even outside of town as you just traveled along in any direction. Over 150,000 square miles of adventuring real estate no one in their lifetime would cover. I remember setting out from east to west just to see how long it would take me and never made it. The combat engine then was slashing or thrusting from side to side, diagonally, up and down left and right and quite enjoyable as it made you feel like you were actually fighing a battle and not just hitting a keyboard key. The music when you got into town was usually chipper and there were even year festivals in some towns if you entered them on certain days. The dungeons and crypts and caves were HUGE and you could easily get lost in them if you weren't careful. I remember even the first cave/dungeon took me hours to find the exit. They just don't make them like that anymore. Morrowind was pretty good, but, I just never liked its combat engine after playing Daggerfall. It was nothing more than hold the left mouse button down for a period of time and let go...that was it. The longer you held it down the more damage you did up to a point. Oblivion brought back some of that good old fun of combat in Daggerfall to me. A lot of people don't like Oblivion though because of the leveled mobs feature, but, it was so easily moddable and that was fixed right off.
 
And yes I tried SPQR mod. It was from that mod actually that I made and enhanced my own mod. He had sort of the right idea, but, the routing was still present. Adding more hit points instead of adjusting the combat stats and turning off morale was the key to success for challenge in the RTW game for me. Taking away upkeep completely (except for naval units as I found the AI more prone to building navy instead of land units in several cases) and taking away turn limits for production like SPQR did made for a very fun and challenging game. The way I modded it though sort of restriccted me to playing one of the three Roman factions and/or the very weak ones as I gave many of the main factions lots of denari to start off with. I got tired of Egypt always being the power to come out of the South East so I beefed up the Selucids somewhat as well and then sometimes the Selucids would be the power, sometimes Egypt and sometimes the Parthians. Egypt was waaaayyy overpowered out of the box. Well maybe not historically, but, historically accurate RTW never was anyways. So, I turned it into a more fun risklike playing game that I enjoy and to hell with history. lol I just like playing with historical UNITS, but, I've never really cared if a game was historically accurate after that.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I liked Daggerfall best because it really never ended. You never had to follow the storyline, but, you could get 1000's of quests as each an every npc in the game could lead you to one in each town or even outside of town as you just traveled along in any direction. Over 150,000 square miles of adventuring real estate no one in their lifetime would cover. I remember setting out from east to west just to see how long it would take me and never made it. The combat engine then was slashing or thrusting from side to side, diagonally, up and down left and right and quite enjoyable as it made you feel like you were actually fighing a battle and not just hitting a keyboard key. The music when you got into town was usually chipper and there were even year festivals in some towns if you entered them on certain days. The dungeons and crypts and caves were HUGE and you could easily get lost in them if you weren't careful. I remember even the first cave/dungeon took me hours to find the exit. They just don't make them like that anymore. Morrowind was pretty good, but, I just never liked its combat engine after playing Daggerfall. It was nothing more than hold the left mouse button down for a period of time and let go...that was it. The longer you held it down the more damage you did up to a point. Oblivion brought back some of that good old fun of combat in Daggerfall to me. A lot of people don't like Oblivion though because of the leveled mobs feature, but, it was so easily moddable and that was fixed right off.

And yes I tried SPQR mod. It was from that mod actually that I made and enhanced my own mod. He had sort of the right idea, but, the routing was still present. Adding more hit points instead of adjusting the combat stats and turning off morale was the key to success for challenge in the RTW game for me. Taking away upkeep completely (except for naval units as I found the AI more prone to building navy instead of land units in several cases) and taking away turn limits for production like SPQR did made for a very fun and challenging game. The way I modded it though sort of restriccted me to playing one of the three Roman factions and/or the very weak ones as I gave many of the main factions lots of denari to start off with. I got tired of Egypt always being the power to come out of the South East so I beefed up the Selucids somewhat as well and then sometimes the Selucids would be the power, sometimes Egypt and sometimes the Parthians. Egypt was waaaayyy overpowered out of the box. Well maybe not historically, but, historically accurate RTW never was anyways. So, I turned it into a more fun risklike playing game that I enjoy and to hell with history. lol I just like playing with historical UNITS, but, I've never really cared if a game was historically accurate after that.

To even suggest that "Egypt" in Rome out of the box had any semblance of historical accuracy would just be a horror

(not directed at you ravinhood, just a comment)

It was under Ptolemaic rule at the time, not the Scorpion King as depicted in vanilla RTW.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I liked Daggerfall best because it really never ended. You never had to follow the storyline, but, you could get 1000's of quests as each an every npc in the game could lead you to one in each town or even outside of town as you just traveled along in any direction. Over 150,000 square miles of adventuring real estate no one in their lifetime would cover. I remember setting out from east to west just to see how long it would take me and never made it. The combat engine then was slashing or thrusting from side to side, diagonally, up and down left and right and quite enjoyable as it made you feel like you were actually fighing a battle and not just hitting a keyboard key. The music when you got into town was usually chipper and there were even year festivals in some towns if you entered them on certain days. The dungeons and crypts and caves were HUGE and you could easily get lost in them if you weren't careful. I remember even the first cave/dungeon took me hours to find the exit. They just don't make them like that anymore. Morrowind was pretty good, but, I just never liked its combat engine after playing Daggerfall. It was nothing more than hold the left mouse button down for a period of time and let go...that was it. The longer you held it down the more damage you did up to a point. Oblivion brought back some of that good old fun of combat in Daggerfall to me. A lot of people don't like Oblivion though because of the leveled mobs feature, but, it was so easily moddable and that was fixed right off.

And yes I tried SPQR mod. It was from that mod actually that I made and enhanced my own mod. He had sort of the right idea, but, the routing was still present. Adding more hit points instead of adjusting the combat stats and turning off morale was the key to success for challenge in the RTW game for me. Taking away upkeep completely (except for naval units as I found the AI more prone to building navy instead of land units in several cases) and taking away turn limits for production like SPQR did made for a very fun and challenging game. The way I modded it though sort of restriccted me to playing one of the three Roman factions and/or the very weak ones as I gave many of the main factions lots of denari to start off with. I got tired of Egypt always being the power to come out of the South East so I beefed up the Selucids somewhat as well and then sometimes the Selucids would be the power, sometimes Egypt and sometimes the Parthians. Egypt was waaaayyy overpowered out of the box. Well maybe not historically, but, historically accurate RTW never was anyways. So, I turned it into a more fun risklike playing game that I enjoy and to hell with history. lol I just like playing with historical UNITS, but, I've never really cared if a game was historically accurate after that.

The thing I dislike the most about my heavily modded Oblivion is the same thing that I hated about Morrowind- there is no more "Role Playing" in either of those games than was in Doom 2. They're just action/adventure games with stats really, as all of the dialogue and interaction with every aspect except the combat was exactly the same whether you were playing as a big, dumb brute fighter, or a highly intelligent but wimpy pilgrim.

The reason I tend to rip so hard into Oblivion is because it's horrifying to see it declared as "The new direction of RPG's!"- the closest thing to a good RPG on a computer are the Triumvirate of Fallout 1 and 2, and Planescape: Torment. Those three are the only games I know of in which you can actually design and then play a character to the detail, and still complete the game regardless of their strengths/weaknesses. As in you can create a smooth talking diplomatic type and actually play through the whole game as such, and not realize halfway through that you're screwed because you didn't buff your combat stats up enough. For amusement's sake, try creating a Fallout character with an Intelligence rating of "1" (the lowest), and see what his/her attempt at speaking to other NPCs comes out like! Of course the first sentence of this paragraph is made even worse when you realize that Bethesda is now creating Fallout 3- a series so completely different from the TES games in every fundamental gameplay mechanic I can think of, really does sound from the previews like they're just turning it into Oblivion with Guns. The raping of the Fallout series truly does make me depressed.

I know that was OT, sorry.

[ravinhood]

So K my topics are generally general topics anyways. I don't get upset when they swing in another game topic, it's when they turn into flames and fire by a few select ones here (see my signature )that I might say something about. Mainly we are talking about some great games with great mods or what could have made them great and what might make them greater in the long run. I agree with you though that RPG games are getting away from the traditional RPGlike ways many of us grew up with. But, I'm not one of those that really minds as I've never really stayed between the lines when it comes to gaming (or actual life hehe). I like action RPGs as much as I like traditional RPGS. But, I like good ones with good interface and not a lot you have to do to fight the enemy, but, just enough like Daggerfall and Oblivion.
 
Did you ever try an old commodore 64 game called WASTELAND Mic82? I think that game was the mother/father of the Fall Out series and I've always enjoyed playing that and replaying it. I didn't even mind the text based combat engine in that one, at least it happened then and not a month later in some monthly report page.
 
I personally miss the turn based RPG games myself. I enjoyed having time to think out the situation and then respond each turn. The Gold Box series of SSI are still some of my favorites and I'll always enjoy Ultima IV and V the best. Ultima II wasn't bad either. But, games like Diablo and Diablo 2, The TES series, I have thouroughly enjoyed. They have the perfect speed of combat and I don't get frustrated cause I only have ONE character I have to control. Unlike the Baldur's Gate series where every battle was like a mish mash trying to keep up and I'm just one of those that WILL NOT use PAUSE in a real time game. lol I guess that's just a pet peave of mine that if it's real time you are cheating yourself and the game and the AI using pause. That's just how I believe and I'll never change, I'm too old.
 
I can only imagine what the next 20 years of gaming will bring. I hope I live long enough to see just one good game with all the great elements of games of the past in it. A great real time AI to fight the tactical battles from the strategic or operational map true to the Total War series of old. I'm a huge ancients fan and I want more than anything a better RTW game back to provinces instead of these silly 3D maps that the AI can't cope with. One game that is really pretty good at it is "Knights of Honor" but, of course it is set in the Medival times and well one thing I don't like about it is it restricts you to hardly any leaders to make armies out of. You can make armies, but, you can't use them in the field without a leader and you need too many of the leaders for government things. It was a good concept, but, they ruined it with restrictions. The combat AI is great in it I'll give it that, it's stomped me more than a couple of times already. And because I'm not an historical accuracy nut I rather like "Imperial Glory" as well for a real time tactical with turn based strategic overlay in the Napoleonic times. I think it's good not to be a fanatic when it comes to historical accuracy. Not saying tanks should be in ancient egypt, but, as long as the UNITS are historical or even close I can be happy with how the rest of the game pans out even if not historical and just a risklike game to play conquer the world with.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

So K my topics are generally general topics anyways. I don't get upset when they swing in another game topic, it's when they turn into flames and fire by a few select ones here (see my signature )that I might say something about. Mainly we are talking about some great games with great mods or what could have made them great and what might make them greater in the long run. I agree with you though that RPG games are getting away from the traditional RPGlike ways many of us grew up with. But, I'm not one of those that really minds as I've never really stayed between the lines when it comes to gaming (or actual life hehe). I like action RPGs as much as I like traditional RPGS. But, I like good ones with good interface and not a lot you have to do to fight the enemy, but, just enough like Daggerfall and Oblivion.

Did you ever try an old commodore 64 game called WASTELAND Mic82? I think that game was the mother/father of the Fall Out series and I've always enjoyed playing that and replaying it. I didn't even mind the text based combat engine in that one, at least it happened then and not a month later in some monthly report page.

I personally miss the turn based RPG games myself. I enjoyed having time to think out the situation and then respond each turn. The Gold Box series of SSI are still some of my favorites and I'll always enjoy Ultima IV and V the best. Ultima II wasn't bad either. But, games like Diablo and Diablo 2, The TES series, I have thouroughly enjoyed. They have the perfect speed of combat and I don't get frustrated cause I only have ONE character I have to control. Unlike the Baldur's Gate series where every battle was like a mish mash trying to keep up and I'm just one of those that WILL NOT use PAUSE in a real time game. lol I guess that's just a pet peave of mine that if it's real time you are cheating yourself and the game and the AI using pause. That's just how I believe and I'll never change, I'm too old.

I can only imagine what the next 20 years of gaming will bring. I hope I live long enough to see just one good game with all the great elements of games of the past in it. A great real time AI to fight the tactical battles from the strategic or operational map true to the Total War series of old. I'm a huge ancients fan and I want more than anything a better RTW game back to provinces instead of these silly 3D maps that the AI can't cope with. One game that is really pretty good at it is "Knights of Honor" but, of course it is set in the Medival times and well one thing I don't like about it is it restricts you to hardly any leaders to make armies out of. You can make armies, but, you can't use them in the field without a leader and you need too many of the leaders for government things. It was a good concept, but, they ruined it with restrictions. The combat AI is great in it I'll give it that, it's stomped me more than a couple of times already. And because I'm not an historical accuracy nut I rather like "Imperial Glory" as well for a real time tactical with turn based strategic overlay in the Napoleonic times. I think it's good not to be a fanatic when it comes to historical accuracy. Not saying tanks should be in ancient egypt, but, as long as the UNITS are historical or even close I can be happy with how the rest of the game pans out even if not historical and just a risklike game to play conquer the world with.

I've tried playing Wasteland on a previous computer with DosBox and it never would work right- I was probably 6 years old when it came out so missed out on that one It really looked interesting though, just liked to freeze the computer too often to stick with.

I missed the Gold Box games as well, but used to play Ultima: Exodus on my Nintendo and now have it surprisingly up and running on this same computer. I fully intend to play Ultima 3-7 entirely before I die, so I've probably got a while to go with that goal. I hear you as well on the "Infinity Engine" games (Baldur's Gate and etc), I despise the combat so much in those games that it almost wrecks the fun! "Real Time with Pause!" just seemed to me like trying to cater to the twitch crowd while still allowing yourself to list "turn based combat" as a feature without mentioning the half-assery that it actually was. I never got much into BG, but Planescape: Torment is one of my favorite games, and well worth suffering through that combat engine for (it isn't as hack and slash oriented as BG either).

Now of course the beloved Fallout franchise has been "resurrected" under the same guy who I believe was quoted as saying something like "Role playing, to me, is about riding around on a horse and killing things". That would Mr. Todd "Soil Erosion!" Howard, of course. Most of the Fallout 3 official previews I've heard usually ramble on about the "Extreme ultra violence giving the game an adult feel!" (I think they missed the point there), of course the graphics, and the great new combat engine that allows either realtime first person shooter play, or the ability to pause and make it turn based- where have we heard that before? It seems as well like they've just raped the whole storyline/lore behind the game, changing it into the usual fantasy esque "Good guys and bad guys" tripe (Super Mutants = Bad, Brotherhood of Steel = Chivalrous Good Knights- pretty much a total 180 from the original games).

I liked Knights of Honor as well- I just didn't play through the campaign more than a couple of times due to all of the different kingdoms having a kind of generic feel. Playing as Leinster wasn't really any different than playing as the Byzantine Empire, except for a handful of special units being different. You're right on about the restriction on your own leaders (you can only have up to 7 IIRC) was a real problem once you controlled a big chunk of territory- that number really should have increased along with the size of your kingdom! Definitely a fun game but not really loaded with replay value for me.

If there were a "2D Map Mod" for my now favorite Deus lo Vult Medieval 2 mod, I'd jump all over it- the challenge of the game would increase dramatically! It'd be nice if they'd learn the lesson of the AI not using that map properly, but I have a feeling that the upcoming TW Empires game will probably be surrounded by hype like "You can zoom in on the 3D map and see soil erosion it's so detailed!" I predict the usual graphics rambling preceeding that one. [:@]

[ravinhood]

Lol zoom in on the 3D map and see SOIL EROSION hahahaha I choked on my coke on that one. You seem to have several issues with crashing games. I wish I could help you out there. I hardly ever have crashing issues on any games except the full motion 3D graphics hog shooters and most of that is overheating I'm pretty sure cause when I reboot or my puter reboots for me my temp is up over 50 degrees and normally it's around 46. I play a LOT of those old games using DOSBOX now and even some of them work well just using XP dos. Getting Master of Magic to work was a challenge, but, I finally done it. It's my favorte fantasy wargame of all time well almost of all time "War of the Lance" is right up there with it, cept I can't get any sound out of it and the AI plays faster than greased lightning in that game I can't even keep up with it's moves, but, really I should be playing FOW anyways haha so it's just keeping me honest. But, it's a great fantasy wargame of old times, if you can get your hands on that I think you'll enjoy the campaign. One of the few games that the AI can beat me and often. lol Those evil dragons are murder on your armies until you get dragons and dragon lances and dragon orbs. The combat engine is a laugh, but, well you gotta figure for a game of that time it offered a LOT and it's real time non pauseable and hands off like Slitherines Spartan/Troy/Legion. You can quick battle all the battles though and that's what I usually do now. It doesn't cheat you in the quick calcs, the real time combat was just for the kiddies and eye candy peoples I think.
 
Yah know I've never played the full versions of Fallout series. I had a demo of the first one and it ran rather sluggish on my computer and that's a rarity that I see sluggish movement and such out of a game that really has a lot lower requirements than my system has. I don't know why it ran sluggish though and because the demo did that I never bought the retail versions. I've noticed they've come down quite a bit though in price and I might chance it now since I've greatly increased my system power since I demoed it a long time ago. I've also been following the III editon of it and knowing Bethesda I'm afraid it's going to get screwed in the next sequel and not going to be anything like the first two games. That's what is sad about these developers who move away from what has been working. Now don't get me wrong I don't really like II's and III's and IV's of a game, but, I do like so see a good engine remain and just add more too it not take away what already works. That's what happens to too many games nowadays though. Remember Lord of the Realms III?? hahah A total move from the first two games and the crowd roared over that one. I think next to Victoria from Paradox that game went to .99 cents faster than any other. Victoria went to .99 cents the first month I laughed so hard. A lot of people like Victoria though.
 
Also just fyi there's a new version of DoSBox to download and each one has improved play with some of the older dos titles I had to fidget with to get them to work even with dosbox. I'd still say at least 95% if not more old dos games work well with DoSBox and that's enough for me. I just wish I could figure out how to work these commodore 64 emulators I really want to play "Heart of Africa" again on my pc. But, what it tells me to do is all greek to me and I've never been able to get one of these emulators to work. ;(

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Lol zoom in on the 3D map and see SOIL EROSION hahahaha I choked on my coke on that one. You seem to have several issues with crashing games. I wish I could help you out there. I hardly ever have crashing issues on any games except the full motion 3D graphics hog shooters and most of that is overheating I'm pretty sure cause when I reboot or my puter reboots for me my temp is up over 50 degrees and normally it's around 46. I play a LOT of those old games using DOSBOX now and even some of them work well just using XP dos. Getting Master of Magic to work was a challenge, but, I finally done it. It's my favorte fantasy wargame of all time well almost of all time "War of the Lance" is right up there with it, cept I can't get any sound out of it and the AI plays faster than greased lightning in that game I can't even keep up with it's moves, but, really I should be playing FOW anyways haha so it's just keeping me honest. But, it's a great fantasy wargame of old times, if you can get your hands on that I think you'll enjoy the campaign. One of the few games that the AI can beat me and often. lol Those evil dragons are murder on your armies until you get dragons and dragon lances and dragon orbs. The combat engine is a laugh, but, well you gotta figure for a game of that time it offered a LOT and it's real time non pauseable and hands off like Slitherines Spartan/Troy/Legion. You can quick battle all the battles though and that's what I usually do now. It doesn't cheat you in the quick calcs, the real time combat was just for the kiddies and eye candy peoples I think.

Yah know I've never played the full versions of Fallout series. I had a demo of the first one and it ran rather sluggish on my computer and that's a rarity that I see sluggish movement and such out of a game that really has a lot lower requirements than my system has. I don't know why it ran sluggish though and because the demo did that I never bought the retail versions. I've noticed they've come down quite a bit though in price and I might chance it now since I've greatly increased my system power since I demoed it a long time ago. I've also been following the III editon of it and knowing Bethesda I'm afraid it's going to get screwed in the next sequel and not going to be anything like the first two games. That's what is sad about these developers who move away from what has been working. Now don't get me wrong I don't really like II's and III's and IV's of a game, but, I do like so see a good engine remain and just add more too it not take away what already works. That's what happens to too many games nowadays though. Remember Lord of the Realms III?? hahah A total move from the first two games and the crowd roared over that one. I think next to Victoria from Paradox that game went to .99 cents faster than any other. Victoria went to .99 cents the first month I laughed so hard. A lot of people like Victoria though.

Also just fyi there's a new version of DoSBox to download and each one has improved play with some of the older dos titles I had to fidget with to get them to work even with dosbox. I'd still say at least 95% if not more old dos games work well with DoSBox and that's enough for me. I just wish I could figure out how to work these commodore 64 emulators I really want to play "Heart of Africa" again on my pc. But, what it tells me to do is all greek to me and I've never been able to get one of these emulators to work. ;(

I hadn't actually even thought of Wasteland until you mentioned it in years, the computer it (and Daggerfall) kept crashing was an old one that didn't work correctly half of the time anyway. I've played some Master of Magic on this one, along with Ultima IV and miraculously had Age of Rifles and the old "Great Battles" series running on it once without hiccups. I never played War of the Lance but really enjoy the Slitherine games (I have Gates of Troy, Chariots, and Legion Arena- Spartan will be on the list eventually as well along with Legion II if it ever comes out).

If you can get them running (and get past the low resolution graphics which would probably be hellish on any monitor with a native res higher than 1280x1024), the Fallout games are about as close to perfection as a computer RPG can be. Most people seem to like the 1st one much more than the sequel, I enjoyed both equally, and like it or not, Fallout 2 still blows away every other RPG out there besides perhaps Planescape: Torment (which is also a classic once you get used to the bizarre LSD trip-esque setting).

I liked Lords of the Realm II, avoided III like the plague after hearing the reviews (I can say the same about Master of Orion 2 and 3 as well- loved the 2nd, ran like hell from the 3rd). I actually have Victoria here (bought it for $.99 [;)]) and haven't ever tried it out, I own most of the Paradox games in the Europa Universalis vein. I really like EU2 and Crusader Kings (w/ Deus Vult) out of those!

The soil erosion bit was another crack at the fanfare around Oblivion, one of the (not kidding) hyped features of that game [;)] I guess that part at least turned out better than the "Radiant AI" did.

I just have to wonder though, why Fallout of all the series to brutally rape? Not many people ever played the original games anyway, the disgrace of a Fallout game that came out before on the Xbox was universally hated, and the game has a relatively small fan base that becomes near homicidal at the idea of making a mockery out of it, and likely won't have anything to do with buying a game that doesn't add up the originals... I just don't get it there.

[ravinhood]

"War of the Lance" even by todays standards in graphics isn't that bad. Oh I think it's 8bit or 16bit max, but, it's still pretty colorful. The hardest thing to get used to in playing WotL is the interface cause you basically have to use the keyboard the whole game and the number pad most of all. But, for us old timers that's how we started out playing computer games. The keyboard and joystick were the only methods in the early days. Games like Questron and Phantasie and Legacy of the Ancients I guess we were elated when we found those were purely and mostly joystick operation games. lol Then of course one day the mouse came along and that changed things forever. I don't know if it was a good forever or not since when you play by keyboard you develop a good memory instead of just learning to click click click. I guess it's why it's easy for me to go back and play a purely keyboard type game. I got used to it then and it doesn't bother me now if a game is more keyboard than mouse driven. I can still use the ole numeric keypad just like the old days. I wasn't introduced to the mouse though of course until the Amiga 500 days and that was in the late 80's like 88 or 89 when I got my Amiga 500. One of the first games was "Sword of Aragon" and it used still both the keyboard and the mouse. Ima nut for fantasy games as much as wargames. I prefer fantasy wargames over rpg, but, I still like a good rpg (turn based) when I can find them. I'm toying around with installing "Blade of Destiny" since I never really got around to playing that one. It's like first person movement (like the old gold box series) and then animated turn based battles with 6 characters of many different types you can choose to play with. Standard choices of course, warrior, mage, thief, druid, elves, barbarians, humans and the like. There's still a great library of old DOS games to play if anyone has a hankering for something a bit or even a lot different from todays ilk. Underdogs has a slew of them. I'd have to setup my old commodores and Amiga 500 to play some of these old nostalgia games if it wasn't for Underdog. Wish I could find a PC version of "WINGS" though, my favorite WWI air sim game. Guess I'll just have to wait for the remake of that one. Since I think the only way to play it on PC is to use an "emulator" and I already told you my experience with those. lol

[Skeleton]

Gentlemen,

Being almost computer illerate, how does one know if the Oscuro (Oblivion) mod has been applied? I haven't played an RPG in about ten years but picked this up super cheap and wanted to give the mod a try. I downloaded it, extracted everything, but have no idea if it is working. Any suggestions would be most welcome.

[mikul82]

It's confusing, it isn't just you.

Extract it into the Oblivion/Data folder, then when you open the Oblivion launcher, click "Data Files", be sure to select the OOO mod, then launch the game. Make sure to extract the OOO patch into the Oblivion/Data folder as well!

I'm eventually going to put together my personal "make Oblivion finally fun" mod list, but it's around 2-3 gigs worth of mods and not going to be written anytime soon. If you want some other interesting mods to try out as well let me know and I'll post some.


Edit: I'm not sure if there are any immediate visual cues that it's running, but if you install it as above and have it checked off in the "data files", it should be running just fine.

[ravinhood]

Wow you're running 2-3gigs of mods mic? lol I have quite a few, but, hardly that many running. But, staying in the same city most of the time I guess I don't need too many. I think the garden mod and the arena mod are the most fun for me. In the slum area back there where all the shacks are is where I started my garden. Now it's all over that area and I gots carrots and cabbages and strawberries and watermelons and rare flowers and stuff all growin back there. It takes 3 days for them to respawn and I mixes up some more potions to use or sell to the merchants. Then I goes and fights in the arena for a day or so and then I might travel to one of the caves near the first city and clean it out again or the sewer of the city or just go house to house and see which ones I can break into and steal stuff from. lol It really suks that you sorta have to cheat to keep your stats in order. I go down into the sewer to let the rats beatup on me so's to get my blocking and armor skills up so's I can get maximum hit points when I level. Some of the things they tied into hit points in stupid. But, then again I guess armor and blocking do have to do with your hit points. lol I really wish they would goto more of a Star Wars Galaxy type skill system as that also depended on usage, but, it didn't restrict you to not using something so you wouldn't level up in the numbers. SWG doesn't use any leveling numbers it is all from skill usage how much better you get. I always liked that system. It's just too bad the rest of the game suks.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Wow you're running 2-3gigs of mods mic? lol I have quite a few, but, hardly that many running. But, staying in the same city most of the time I guess I don't need too many. I think the garden mod and the arena mod are the most fun for me. In the slum area back there where all the shacks are is where I started my garden. Now it's all over that area and I gots carrots and cabbages and strawberries and watermelons and rare flowers and stuff all growin back there. It takes 3 days for them to respawn and I mixes up some more potions to use or sell to the merchants. Then I goes and fights in the arena for a day or so and then I might travel to one of the caves near the first city and clean it out again or the sewer of the city or just go house to house and see which ones I can break into and steal stuff from. lol It really suks that you sorta have to cheat to keep your stats in order. I go down into the sewer to let the rats beatup on me so's to get my blocking and armor skills up so's I can get maximum hit points when I level. Some of the things they tied into hit points in stupid. But, then again I guess armor and blocking do have to do with your hit points. lol I really wish they would goto more of a Star Wars Galaxy type skill system as that also depended on usage, but, it didn't restrict you to not using something so you wouldn't level up in the numbers. SWG doesn't use any leveling numbers it is all from skill usage how much better you get. I always liked that system. It's just too bad the rest of the game suks.

What can I say, I really didn't like that game out of the box [;)] My current character still has to run like hell from anything scarier than a goblin, he's still at level one (and I'm using OOO with the "Deadly Reflex" mod that optionally increases weapon lethality dramatically among other things) and jogging for more than 100 yards leaves him ready to pass out (also using a "Real Fatigue" mod, no more running all the way across the map without so much as breaking a sweat).


Edit- You know, I think it's actually more like 4 gigs... I filled an entire DVD with them, burned it and stuck in in the same case as my Oblivion disc so I don't have to re-download everything if I uninstall/reinstall the game. [X(]

[ravinhood]

You do know all those mods stay on your hard drive in your "My Documents" for the Oblivion game don't you? That's where it stores the save game files and all as well. Saves you from having to reinstall all those mods everytime you install the game again. I'm also using the realistic economy one so you can't just unload all your merchandise on a few merchants all the time. I have to travel around to get rid of everything. I use the more realistic timer so days don't just fly by unless you actually do use the rest feature. It was getting so I hardly ever rested for days and days without any adverse effects. As for fatigue I carry bottles and bottles of fatigue potions and use a lot of them in the arena, same with healing potions. I also used that mod that puts more people and bandits on the road, but, I found the bandits kept killing everyone and loot was strewn from here to kingdom come so I had to take that one out. lol it was kinda funny turning the corner to see bandits attacking the other npc's. Sometimes the npc's would win, but, most often it was the bandits. I installed a few mods that add new weapons and areas to the game, but, not many. I might have 1/2 a gig of mods installed if that much at most. I only look to add things if I find something just totally out of whack. Oh I installed the longer minion/pet mods so I wasn't having to cast summon this or that every few seconds. Lol it was fun summoning my own skeleton and then having fights with it. One thing about the Obsuro mod is when you goto some of those caves/dungeons you surely get put to the test. I've died several times in some of those bandit caves. I like how the people go about their daily routines though in Oblivion and how they talk about things to each other even when you aren't interacting with them. It's the most realistic game in that sense of all of them I've played. It really feels like you're in an actual living thriving world. Oh and being able to be a spectator of the arena fights and betting on them is kewl also.
 
I guess the thing that bugged me most about Oblivion is how small of a world it really is. Only 16 square miles. After you've played Daggerfall it's soooooooo small of a world really and to have insta travel in it seems rediculous. But, just as in Oblivion I see people even in online games like Guild Wars who complain if there wasn't an insta travel system. It's the one thing they implemented into Everquest that ruined the game for many of its fans. I don't like insta travel myself, but, in GW you really have no option since there really isn't any persistant world to travel in and everything is instanced and mobs are every 10 ft and you can't avoid them like you can in say an Everquest or WOW or other mmorpgs that provide paths you can take when traveling from place to place. I don't mind magical insta travel that players can do like druids and wizards in Everquest could teleport whole groups from place to place, but, the stones in Planes of Power were stupid implementations and ruined a lot of peoples income, me being one of them. lol I worked hard to level my druid up to be able to teleport people around the world and make a small profit from it and then they come along and ruin that with teleportation stones to every flippin where.

[mikul82]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

You do know all those mods stay on your hard drive in your "My Documents" for the Oblivion game don't you? That's where it stores the save game files and all as well. Saves you from having to reinstall all those mods everytime you install the game again. I'm also using the realistic economy one so you can't just unload all your merchandise on a few merchants all the time. I have to travel around to get rid of everything. I use the more realistic timer so days don't just fly by unless you actually do use the rest feature. It was getting so I hardly ever rested for days and days without any adverse effects. As for fatigue I carry bottles and bottles of fatigue potions and use a lot of them in the arena, same with healing potions. I also used that mod that puts more people and bandits on the road, but, I found the bandits kept killing everyone and loot was strewn from here to kingdom come so I had to take that one out. lol it was kinda funny turning the corner to see bandits attacking the other npc's. Sometimes the npc's would win, but, most often it was the bandits. I installed a few mods that add new weapons and areas to the game, but, not many. I might have 1/2 a gig of mods installed if that much at most. I only look to add things if I find something just totally out of whack. Oh I installed the longer minion/pet mods so I wasn't having to cast summon this or that every few seconds. Lol it was fun summoning my own skeleton and then having fights with it. One thing about the Obsuro mod is when you goto some of those caves/dungeons you surely get put to the test. I've died several times in some of those bandit caves. I like how the people go about their daily routines though in Oblivion and how they talk about things to each other even when you aren't interacting with them. It's the most realistic game in that sense of all of them I've played. It really feels like you're in an actual living thriving world. Oh and being able to be a spectator of the arena fights and betting on them is kewl also.

I guess the thing that bugged me most about Oblivion is how small of a world it really is. Only 16 square miles. After you've played Daggerfall it's soooooooo small of a world really and to have insta travel in it seems rediculous. But, just as in Oblivion I see people even in online games like Guild Wars who complain if there wasn't an insta travel system. It's the one thing they implemented into Everquest that ruined the game for many of its fans. I don't like insta travel myself, but, in GW you really have no option since there really isn't any persistant world to travel in and everything is instanced and mobs are every 10 ft and you can't avoid them like you can in say an Everquest or WOW or other mmorpgs that provide paths you can take when traveling from place to place. I don't mind magical insta travel that players can do like druids and wizards in Everquest could teleport whole groups from place to place, but, the stones in Planes of Power were stupid implementations and ruined a lot of peoples income, me being one of them. lol I worked hard to level my druid up to be able to teleport people around the world and make a small profit from it and then they come along and ruin that with teleportation stones to every flippin where.

If you ever want some REAL fun with any RPG or action-RPG, try playing in strict ironman mode- once your character dies, he/she's dead and it's time to restart with a new one [X(] Save only in case of a crash or to quit playing, but no re-loading if you get your character killed- they stay dead. It makes Jagged Alliance 2, Baldur's Gate, and Morrowind into a non-stop adrenaline rush. Playing that way with OOO plus the "make the game a million times harder" mods that I like with Oblivion would require balls the size of an Ox's however- I plan to do it after playing around with this character for awhile and getting a feel for all the new stuff however!

I dislike the fast travel as well. I liked Morrowind's "Ride the Silt Strider" or pay the Mage guild to teleport method MUCH better. I also miss the "Mark" and "Recall" spells.

[General Quarters]

I just want to second R's original point. MTW is way better than MTW2, and the XL mod makes it more challenging and more fun.