MOST StupidEST-EST Rule!

[Soapy Frog]

The occupation of the capital is only important at the start of the economic phase; if a minor/provincial capital is occupied unbeseiged in the economic phase, no money or manpower can be collected from that minor/province. If the national capital is occupied unbeseiged in the economic phase, the manpower from the capital province is lost, and furthermore the major power gets no money from any source (except lending).
 
At no other point is the occupation/beseiged status of provincial or national capitals at all improtant or relevant, and there is no requirement for "uninterrupted" occupation or anything of this sort.
 
The uninterrupted occupation is for conquest/change of control of minors. That is a seperate issue.

[dauphan129]

My FTF group always played that you had to surrender if your Capital was occupied during an economic phase.

Also, if all your home province capitals were occupied you were disolved and your country was split up with each province going to the nation that occupied it's individual capital. The game was over for you and you should keep tabs to see when the next game began.

None of you played this way?

If you never had to surrender, some folks never would, just to be a pain. There has to be a mechanic whereby a player can force another to surrender.

[Soapy Frog]

ORIGINAL: dauphan129

My FTF group always played that you had to surrender if your Capital was occupied during an economic phase.

That's fine but it's not the rules.

Also, if all your home province capitals were occupied you were disolved and your country was split up with each province going to the nation that occupied it's individual capital. The game was over for you and you should keep tabs to see when the next game began.

That IS the rules. Civil Disorder.

None of you played this way?

If you never had to surrender some folks never would just to be a pain. There has to be a mechanic whereby a player can force another to surrender.

Gnerally most groups do not play that way as the game is long and its nice for everyone to be able to play to the end. Also the base rules do not adequately reflect the possibility of Prussia or Spain becoming resurgent, as they did historically.

And so the optional limits on territorial loss and player elimintation are commonly used; which state that Civil Disorder does not eliminate you, instead requires you to surrender unconditionally to all powers currently at war (as you can see, someone who "won't" surrender can still be forced to, so the mechanic you want is there in the optional as well). Also maximum territorial loss for any Power is 3 home nation, non-capital provinces.

That's been standard in all groups I have played with and most people I have discussed the game with over the years.

*Edited for atrocious typing

[Alex Gilbert]

I, for one, would like a bit more info about this forced surrender. I know for a fact that having your capital occupied by unbesieged enemy units does NOT force you to surrender by itself. Murat knows this too, as he has held my capital for the last 3 months and I have not surrendered (yet) [:D]

So there must be something else going on here-- are the other provincial capitals held? Is Prussia in the instability/fiasco zone?

I agree with all who have said that simply capturing an enemy capital should not force surrender, but I do not think that is what has happened here.

[Trin]

ORIGINAL: Soapy Frog

The occupation of the capital is only important at the start of the economic phase;

Well apparently it also matters in EIANW rules, in the diplomacy phase. Here, during the diplomacy phase, the player was told he MUST surrender

ORIGINAL: Soapy Frog

if a minor/provincial capital is occupied unbeseiged in the economic phase, no money or manpower can be collected from that minor/province. If the national capital is occupied unbeseiged in the economic phase, the manpower from the capital province is lost, and furthermore the major power gets no money from any source (except lending).

At no other point is the occupation/beseiged status of provincial or national capitals at all improtant or relevant, and there is no requirement for "uninterrupted" occupation or anything of this sort.

The uninterrupted occupation is for conquest/change of control of minors. That is a seperate issue.

The 'must' surrender rule in EIANW makes it relevant, even if only as a standard to compare against. Conquering a minor is the equivalent of making him surrender to you. The prerequisites that must be satisfied for the control flag on a minor power to change, are clearly spelled out. If the current scenario is correct, the prerequisites for forcing a surrender of an MP are in fact, far less.

[Murat]

ORIGINAL: Alex Gilbert

I, for one, would like a bit more info about this forced surrender. I know for a fact that having your capital occupied by unbesieged enemy units does NOT force you to surrender by itself. Murat knows this too, as he has held my capital for the last 3 months and I have not surrendered (yet) [:D]

So there must be something else going on here-- are the other provincial capitals held? Is Prussia in the instability/fiasco zone?

I agree with all who have said that simply capturing an enemy capital should not force surrender, but I do not think that is what has happened here.

Actually I did not know. For all I know you have been forced to a conditional but since I have not offered it you have not been bound. Your screen never showed anything?

[Alex Gilbert]

ORIGINAL: Murat

ORIGINAL: Alex Gilbert

I, for one, would like a bit more info about this forced surrender. I know for a fact that having your capital occupied by unbesieged enemy units does NOT force you to surrender by itself. Murat knows this too, as he has held my capital for the last 3 months and I have not surrendered (yet) [:D]

So there must be something else going on here-- are the other provincial capitals held? Is Prussia in the instability/fiasco zone?

I agree with all who have said that simply capturing an enemy capital should not force surrender, but I do not think that is what has happened here.

Actually I did not know. For all I know you have been forced to a conditional but since I have not offered it you have not been bound. Your screen never showed anything?

No, I was never forced into anything.

[Soapy Frog]

Trin: I agree, I was just pointing out how it SHOULD be!