RHS file posting thread: coutesy update for AI scenario air groups issued

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Thanks for your input M10bob, as I have said before I have confidence in your adjustments. Now a question, those RAF Vildebeest/Vincent units in CAIO do show it's ordinance as slot 092 but it is described as an 18" MK-XII Torpedo and not a mortar. [&:]

BTW feel free to suggest any of your other observations and changes here relating to the a/c[8D]

Partner, my comments are ONLY relevant to RHSCVO...Sorry..

That is troubling. Initially, I had thought that Sid had created CAIO using CVO as the parent model and the OOB. In fact at one point I was in the process of modifying CVO to get rid of the riverports and ships in order to play the more true to life scenario as opposed to his AIO that I found too radical for my taste. When he made the CAIO it eliminated most the problems I was previously having with Japanese TF going on a road to nowhere up no access rivers, that completely screwed up my games. That's when I started using it. Now I am finding that the data for CAIO is not true to the CVO parent. Not only is it not what I wanted but I feel that could easily be the cause of many of the errors myself and others have found the data overall. I may have to revert to the CVO and manually adjust it to achieve what I want.
[/quote]


The OOB's may be identical, I have not looked. BTW, I may have reversed that "slot #92 and #93 thing", but you figured it out..[;)]

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks




Just curious - If I'm in a current game and I have a squadron with mortars instead of torpedoes, what happens if I upgrade to a different plane on T1 and then upgrade back to the Vildebeest on T2? Will it correct the problem?

Not an issue - unless you ever upgrade to a Vildebeeste. The squadrons (air group record actually) was not affected by this editor error - which slips a device downward one slot. In fact, your strategy would CAUSE the problem. Your units either have torpedoes or bombs - depending on which they represent - but upgrading to Vildebeeste will give them mortars!

I have a question. How are you able to update a current games data? Everything I read here (WITP board) is that the data files only effect new games.

Also, Sid are you saying M10bob's adjustments would cause a problem. I am chomping at the bit to start the new CAIO game but want to make all the needed adjustments first.

as a player - the easy thing to do is get corrected files and start a new game

as a programmer - the files are not encrypted - so you change whatever needs changing - the files are not entirely hard to read - although some fields have unknown functions - so changes to a save game file are possible - if you know one vital fact I do not feel free to post - but which any programmer can quickly figure out

M10Bob's proposed changes - upgrade the unit to something else THEN upgrade to Vildebeeste - WILL cause a problem in pre current files - and NOT doing that is far better - as there is not any problem in the units. If he did that- go back to the file just before he did it and have him redo the turn. The ONLY way to get a problem with Vildebeeste is to upgrade a unit to that aircraft. A unit that starts with it has a proper loadout (one of two different ones, depending on if it is a Vildebeeste or a Vincent - that is, torpedo or bombs).

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: m10bob

For we RHS users, I was having some issues with the Vickers Vildebeest/Vincent which starts the war in several squadrons. The Vincent was a bomber, but the Vildebeest was a torpedo bomber and in the last couple of "patches", I had reported the torpedo-carrying version had no arms (other than the machine guns).
Well, this morning I got into the editor and discovered the torpedo version all had an editor anomolie which caused the main payload to jump from slot 093(18 in torpedo) to slot 092(a land mortar).
To correct this issue, just go into the editor, go to "air groups", scroll down to RAF units, and find the Vildebeest/Vincent units.
If they show 250 lb bombs, they are O.K., keep going till you find others with the slot 092 mortars.These you need to manually change to the next slot,#93, which is the torpedo.


Now, if you feel adventurous, you can also go to "aircraft" in the editor, find the Japanese "Peggy", and remove its' bombs and replace them with the same torpedo carried by the Betty.
(This is historically accurate and the plane was originally deployed with the torpedo.)
If you do remove the bombs, and give it the torpedo, go to the next slot and change the number to "1"(one torp), and on the last slot, make it #12EXT.....
The game itself is robust enough that it will give the plane bombs for certain missions anyway.

Thanks for your input M10bob, as I have said before I have confidence in your adjustments. Now a question, those RAF Vildebeest/Vincent units in CAIO do show it's ordinance as slot 092 but it is described as an 18" MK-XII Torpedo and not a mortar. [&:]

BTW feel free to suggest any of your other observations and changes here relating to the a/c[8D]

The Vildebeeste issue was fixed - but possibly not in all scenarios - until I re uploaded the aircraft file. It was not worth addressing even when it existed - but IF you see this mortar - it means you ALSO do not have the latest P-38 or Ki-43 aircraft - so get the revised file. The Vildebeeste is right in all the units that use it.

The matter of the Ki-67 is a matter of choice - but it is better to have the default loadout be bombs. That way a Ki-21 or Ki-49 (or anything else) which upgrades will not get torpedoes - which they did not do - and for which enough torpedoes did not exist and could not be made.
The few units that had torpedoes DO have them in RHS - I promise. We have invented "multiple loadouts" for planes - and many Allied bombers have special (non default) loadouts - those notes AP ASW GP etc have meaning!

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Thanks for your input M10bob, as I have said before I have confidence in your adjustments. Now a question, those RAF Vildebeest/Vincent units in CAIO do show it's ordinance as slot 092 but it is described as an 18" MK-XII Torpedo and not a mortar. [&:]

BTW feel free to suggest any of your other observations and changes here relating to the a/c[8D]

Partner, my comments are ONLY relevant to RHSCVO...Sorry..

That is troubling. Initially, I had thought that Sid had created CAIO using CVO as the parent model and the OOB. In fact at one point I was in the process of modifying CVO to get rid of the riverports and ships in order to play the more true to life scenario as opposed to his AIO that I found too radical for my taste. When he made the CAIO it eliminated most the problems I was previously having with Japanese TF going on a road to nowhere up no access rivers, that completely screwed up my games. That's when I started using it. Now I am finding that the data for CAIO is not true to the CVO parent. Not only is it not what I wanted but I feel that could easily be the cause of many of the errors myself and others have found the data overall. I may have to revert to the CVO and manually adjust it to achieve what I want.
[/quote]

You are correct. CAIO is almost CVO -

but in the upload it looks like I missed at least one file in the transfer from working to upload folders - and CVO failed to get the latest planes - since fixed.

If you see the right loadout on Vincent - you have the right file. Even if you did not - Vincent/Vildebeeste was NOT a problem in ANY unit.

CAIO is intended for play vs a computer - but note ONLY for practice - the AI is hopelessly stupid - and only AIO has a strong enough Japan to last even to mid war. The data for CAIO (and AIO as well) also are changing over time - but in ways to HELP the computer player - because it is not smart enough to cancel junk ships, give ideal orders to planes, send things to the right places, etc. For the first time we now have a CAIO that DOES NOT share all the data - but it shares most - and the differences HELP the AI. The only problem is to be sure you have all the current files - and you now should have them. - as I re uploaded leaders and aircraft - which some scenarios didn't have in the current form. [when you copy many files, it is possible to select one too few - or more than one too few - and I am working on a tiny laptop - because main station is down - so print is small]

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

CAIO is intended for play vs a computer - but note ONLY for practice - the AI is hopelessly stupid - and only AIO has a strong enough Japan to last even to mid war. [:D][:D][:D]

The data for CAIO (and AIO as well) also are changing over time - but in ways to HELP the computer player - because it is not smart enough to cancel junk ships, give ideal orders to planes, send things to the right places, etc. For the first time we now have a CAIO that DOES NOT share all the data - but it shares most - and the differences HELP the AI. The only problem is to be sure you have all the current files - and you now should have them. - as I re uploaded leaders and aircraft - which some scenarios didn't have in the current form. [when you copy many files, it is possible to select one too few - or more than one too few - and I am working on a tiny laptop - because main station is down - so print is small]

I gave the AIO a good try until the typical errors and scenario updates shut me down at the end of Jan 1942. I enjoyed the difference, but was finding that the Japanese initial thrust in taking Hawaii was a terrible wasts of their assets, wasn't or couldn't be supplied or reinforced and (more importantly) it seemed to be at the expense of support for the DEI campaign allowing almost unopposed Allied shipping activity without the normal hindsight fear of the tidel wave coming. It also provided an excellent training platform for the Allied assets in and around Pearl to continually bomb and bombard Maui and big island bases (albeit the Bombardment TFs did receive some nasty surprises from the bases coastal guns). Oh and I wasn't crazy about the unhistorical changes to the a/c OOB

I still might return to play this again at some point because it did add variety.

[el cid again]

AIO is not at its best in the Central Pacific Campaign - but it DOES serve its strategic function: it gets the attention of USN for a while. AI retreats too quickly and does not sustain the objectives - even when it has the assets - and I am not sure we can program it to do so? It ignores objectives - changes them - etc.

Nevertheless, it does NOT hurt the offensives in other areas - it is stronger in fact - but it is still as stupid as ever - not taking everything it should.

AIO is based on a different set of planning assumptions - so departures from history are done in a few places - but with a very historical foundation: all were very real options - and in the case of air OB - the Allies BELIEVED planes like Me-109 and Ju-88 were serving - and we use the REAL code names really assigned to them. AIO is EOS family - so it is not for players who want history as it was. The problem is - as it was Japan was too weak - and combined with weak AI - there is no challenge whatever (a big problem for CAIO). You need the extra strength of AIO - and it is barely enough to be a challenge. It might be better to do AIO without the central pacific campaign of EOS - but that requires a lot of work to change.

RHS was always intended for human vs human play, but AIO and CAIO were desired - first for those who cannot do human vs human came AIO with a stronger Japan - then CAIO for those who wanted to practice CVO before being embarassed vs humans. Each releasse features incrimental minor changes to help the AI - and over time they are getting slightly better programmed. This last release was the biggest incrimental effort so far - and the first to address late war matters specifically for AI play only (and only in these scenarios). It is an attempt to make the play slightly more challenging by helping AI "know" things it cannot know - at the price you are stuck with my opinion (e.g. what junk ship not to build so you don't waste points on it - or even what good ship that is too late to matter not to build). This means for a long period mroe points will be available for "good ships" - etc. I can make them better - but never quite what I would want - due to the structure of code.

[m10bob]

[quote]ORIGINAL: el cid again


[quote]ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

[quote]ORIGINAL: el cid again





Please note, I did NOT propose upgrading the unit, switching back, repainting, polishing, whatever. I pointed out an editor anomaly and explained (for the 2nd time in a month) how to correct it without calling for yet another patch.[8D]

[el cid again]

Also note that the first call corrected the data - it may have been right in all but one scenario - and that the right files were subsiquently uploaded.

Even before the first call - this was a minor issue - because it is not likely anyone would upgrade to this aircraft - the wrong loadout would never reach any air group.

[el cid again]

I am thinking about a variation for AIO - making its operations like CAIO - in spite of its EOS foundation. Only a few TF changes would do that.
Then AIO might be more supported by the hard code - which wants a start of war offensive like history. This would be a one off - not affecting other scenarios - and be called AIO 7.78971

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I am thinking about a variation for AIO - making its operations like CAIO - in spite of its EOS foundation. Only a few TF changes would do that.
Then AIO might be more supported by the hard code - which wants a start of war offensive like history. This would be a one off - not affecting other scenarios - and be called AIO 7.78971

I would give it a try.

[el cid again]

It turns out to be easy - but instead of modifying AIO as such - I will leave it alone - and add a scenario called MAIO (for Modified AIO). That won't mess up the issued installer and won't upset anyone who wants to use AIO as practice for EOS.

[Mifune]

The latest RHS level 6 scenarios have now been uploaded to the RHS web site. Also uploaded are the RHS resource utilities and a couple of upadtes with text notes are to be found within the Scenario Updates folder.

[el cid again]

RHS air group files have been re uploaded in 7.78971 form - using things learned from debugging
RHSMAIO - a new scenario which is not in the installer package (see separate thread)
[RHSMAIO is also uploaded as a comprehensive first issue in 7.78971 form - and at this time it is not
part of the installer package - but should be installed after other scenarios are installed. MAIO
is a member of the EOS family and requires EOS Japanese aircraft art along with other RHS art.]

The air group files are not in the installer at this time in this updated form.

These files are significantly enhanced for AIO and CAOI - but only contain one or two eratta for
the rest.

They should be dumped on top of a current Level 7 install.

They are offered because of what was learned debugging MAIO - and because AI scenarios always
need all the help they can get. They should only be used for new game starts.