Solomon Islands Map

[Ballista]

I'll have a hard time playing the game for awhile when it comes out, as I'll be spending time cruising around the map going "oooo" and "aahhhh". Good stuff......

[trees]

The new maps are indeed beautiful. But I still wonder if it is necessary to make every last speck of land in the Pacific an actual hex. Original scale WiF didn't have this problem as an average hex in the Pacific probably had several islands in it. I think getting rid of the really small ones would make the map look less cluttered in places and help the players focus on military concerns. It probably won't make any difference to actual game play how many islands are or are not on there, you could add an infinite number of islands without ports. I won't bring this up again and I would volunteer to research some of them. (Ones without a wikipedia entry at all are usually a clue they are only a few acres in size.) And, deleting a few of these can only help shrink the data this game carries around though I guess by 2006 that doesn't matter so much.

The name "Minto Reef" caught my eye on the above map, so I googled it and found this phrase: "Minto, with its great number of visible shipwrecks atop a 5 mile circle of reef without any land visible represents a huge hazard to passing shipping, and has claimed many a past vessel navigating blindly in tropic squalls." I like geography and have enjoyed the map threads but for this game I am only interested in geography that matters to the combatants in WWII.

I also really like that the Marshalls boundary was re-routed around 'Woho' to keep the same relative number of airbases on that boundary, thanks. I like using land-based air in the Pacific and adding one to that boundary would have made things different for how I play. On the other hand a player I respect recently asked me why I put a US unit on Wake in 1940...he said he had never seen a Japanese player take it, even undefended.

[marcuswatney]

One post in this thread did mention the non-appearance of Tulagi, one of the islets close to the coast of Florida where the Marine Paras and Rangers suffered such appalling casualties. To expand...

There was no minor port at Guadalcanal. The only reason Guadalcanal had strategic value was that it had a large grassy area on its north shore suitable for building an airstrip. but no minor port, not even a worthwhile anchorage.

The minor port was at Tulagi (or, if you like, in the sheltered waters between Tulagi and Florida. Tulagi was so important that it was the administrative centre for the whole of the Solomons. The Japanese used it as a seaplane base (as they did Shortlands).

So at this scale the minor port symbol should be at Florida and the southeast hex of Guadalcanal (on the basis of DFE) should be plain terrain suitable for four airbases (Henderson, Fighter 1, Fighter 2, and Carney).

Is Guadalcanal supposed to be a two-front port? Espiritu Santo certainly should be, but I am not sure about Guadalcanal/Florida.

If you insist on keeping Guadalcanal as a minor port so as to focus attention on it, then please move the symbol to the eastern hex, which is where Henderson Field was (at the point where the north coast bends southeast). Also, all but Ichiki's attack came from the west, so this will allow the Japanese to contest the island in the historical way.

Why are islands like Florida, Russell and Vella Lavella without jungle? They were all covered in jungle, which is why the flat grassy area on Guadalcanal was so valuable.

[Froonp]

Here is a more recent view of that place.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Why are islands like Florida, Russell and Vella Lavella without jungle? They were all covered in jungle, which is why the flat grassy area on Guadalcanal was so valuable.

I don't know, I left the hex types as they were. Maybe the Solomons Islands deserved to have a coupld of clear terrain hexes, and those were chose as the lest jungle dense ?

Also, whether jungle or plain does not matter for air unit stacking. It is 1 air unit per hex. The minor port makes it 2 Air units.

Also, I disagree about the position of Henderson Field. It is on the eastern part of the island. Look at that map, Henderson Field is at Lunga Point. Also, not all attacks form the Japanese came from the east. Bloody Ridge was from the west, and there also were attacks from the south.

[marcuswatney]

Yes, you're right about the location of Lunga Point: my mistake.
 
I did say in my post that all but Ichiki's suicidal attack (by less than a regiment) came from the west.  The attack you say came from the south actually came from the west, down the Marayuma Trail, and then turned north for the actual assault on Bloody Ridge.
 
It would be good to shift the port one hex east so that the Japanese could at least have a chance to contest Guadalcanal.

[composer99]

???
 
How does the port's hex affect whether the Japanese can contest it or not?

[marcuswatney]

If the port is in the eastern hex, then the Japanese can secure the western hex and attack overland from there at better odds, rather than trying a risky invasion into the defended port.  Japanese marines can even work their way down the southern string of islands in the Solomons.  The campaign on Guadalcanal lasted from August 1942 to February 1943 largely because the Japanese kept reinforcing the western end of the island.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

If the port is in the eastern hex, then the Japanese can secure the western hex and attack overland from there at better odds, rather than trying a risky invasion into the defended port.  Japanese marines can even work their way down the southern string of islands in the Solomons.  The campaign on Guadalcanal lasted from August 1942 to February 1943 largely because the Japanese kept reinforcing the western end of the island.

In WIF game play it doesn't make a lot of difference. It's only a little farther for the Japanese to 'walk' (via Florida) to the other end of the island. And once they have a unit there, they can land additional units in a controlled hex without invading.

[marcuswatney]

As the Japanese player, you wouldn't really want to land east of an American landing on Guadalcanal, and have the US Marines smile sweetly at you as they just 'walked' northwest towards Bougainville, would you? You would want to land on the west end of the island to both have a chance at a counterattack and block northwestward island-hopping. It was, after all, what the Japanese did historically.

This is a classic example of the need to Design For Effect: to fit the hexgrid to the situation, and not allow topography to interfere with recreating the options the two commanders had in real life. For example, topographically, a two-hexside approach to Singapore cannot be justified as the landward side of the island is only 27 miles (43 km) long. But of course you have rightly Designed For Effect so that the stacking limits do allow the Japanese to do what they did historically ... even though that means twisting geography to fit the game's needs.

The terrain in the vicinity of any historical battle needs to be designed thoughfully to ensure that, without straitjacketing players, they can recreate what happened if they really want to. After all, the reason we play wargames rather than abstract games like chess is to gain an insight into military history. And we won't get that vicarious thrill of improving on the performance of the real people if the game does not present us with the same threats and opportunities as they faced all those years ago.

[brian brian]

WiF gives every country free SeaBees, allowing airplanes to base almost anywhere, including jungle hexes. This changes the Pacific struggle somewhat and is probably the reason for a port symbol on Guadalcanal ... to make it into an even more valuable hex as an airbase that can base two planes instead of one.

Personally, I've never seen a fight for it...why not just skip it and head straight for New Ireland? Or skip the Nimitz/McArthur 2-prong strategy altogether and put the Green Machine on 'bulldoze' mode and go straight through the Marshalls.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

WiF gives every country free SeaBees, allowing airplanes to base almost anywhere, including jungle hexes. This changes the Pacific struggle somewhat and is probably the reason for a port symbol on Guadalcanal ... to make it into an even more valuable hex as an airbase that can base two planes instead of one.

Personally, I've never seen a fight for it...why not just skip it and head straight for New Ireland? Or skip the Nimitz/McArthur 2-prong strategy altogether and put the Green Machine on 'bulldoze' mode and go straight through the Marshalls.

Yes, I never fought for Guadalcanal either. I only used it a couple of times as the US to anchor slow BBs, and as a NAV base. I never used it as the Japanese.

[marcuswatney]

A minor matter which will not affect game-play, but, since you have chosen to show the northern border of the Solomons, should perhaps be drawn in for historical accuracy...
 
There's a border missing in New Guinea.  New Guinea at this time was divided into three.  The west, as you have marked, was Netherlands New Guinea.  The eastern half was divided down the Bismark Range into plain Papua in the south and Territory of New Guinea in the northeast.
 
There was a subtle legal difference.  Papua was owned by Australia outright, having been given to her by Britain round about 1906.  The Territory of New Guinea was the German colony seized by Australia in 1914.  After the First World War, Australia administered it under a League of Nations mandate.  The Territory of New Guinea consisted of not only the northeast of New Guinea but also the Admiralty Islands, New Britain and New Ireland, right up to the border with the Solomons.
 
Buna was in Papua, but Lae and Salamaua were in the Territory.  So I think the border should be shown running along the alpine hexsides to meet the northern coast at the hexside with the W of 'Papua (CW)'.
 
Since the Territory was broader than Papua, it would be more accurate to shift two of the alpine hexsides.  Looking at the hex northwest of the word 'Bismarck', the NW alpine should be shifted to the W, and the E alpine shifted to the SE.
 
I think you should identify Buna as a historical site, as to the Australians it was a major (and very controversial) bloodbath which soured relations with the Americans, especially with Eichelberger.  Buna is the jungle hex 2NE Port Moresby.
 
Lae needs to be moved one hex NE: it was on the other side of the bay.  Where it is presently is Salamaua.
 
Under the mandates, the protecting powers were forbidden to fortify.  I have often thought that building fortifications should therefore be illegal in all mandated territories until Japan militarises the Marshalls.  This would discourage the unhistorical pre-war fortification of Rabaul by the Allies, while permitting the fortification of Port Moresby.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
I think you should identify Buna as a historical site, as to the Australians it was a major (and very controversial) bloodbath which soured relations with the Americans, especially with Eichelberger.  Buna is the jungle hex 2NE Port Moresby.

It's already there. You might have commented on old maps.

Lae needs to be moved one hex NE: it was on the other side of the bay.  Where it is presently is Salamaua.

I modified the place but not as you said. Lae is not in the hex NE, it is in the N of the hex it is now.

Under the mandates, the protecting powers were forbidden to fortify.  I have often thought that building fortifications should therefore be illegal in all mandated territories until Japan militarises the Marshalls.  This would discourage the unhistorical pre-war fortification of Rabaul by the Allies, while permitting the fortification of Port Moresby.

The unhistorical pre-war fortification of Rabaul is moot, as the allies can't put a unit in Rabaul before the US play the right US entry Option. thus, if they put a fort here, it is worth nothing and destroyed freely by the Japaneses when they invade during their red wave. Same for Port Moresby.

I don't think that there is benefit in distinguishing Papua and the Territory of New Guinea.

[marcuswatney]

It is simply that you have put red border lines between the Admiralty Islands and New Ireland, and between New Britain and North East New Guinea, when in fact all these were part of the same ex-German mandate and administered together.  Those red-lines shouldn't be there, but the one down the Bismarcks should.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

It is simply that you have put red border lines between the Admiralty Islands and New Ireland, and between New Britain and North East New Guinea, when in fact all these were part of the same ex-German mandate and administered together.  Those red-lines shouldn't be there, but the one down the Bismarcks should.

So you're asking that the NE part of Papua down to Lae approximatively should be a separate Territory named Northeast New Guinea, and that Admiralty Islands, New Ireland, New Britain should all be a single Territory included in Northeast New Guinea. What you say is backed up by maps from the pre-war timeframe that I have.

I'd like to make Northeast New Guinea appear on the map (I love historical accuracy), unfortunately we are reaching the limit of the number of countries in the game. Merging all 3 into one would help, but I'm worried to do that because of conquest / liberations issues, especially with New Britain. New Britain now is conquered by conquering Rabaul only (which is free during the surprise invasions). Conquering Rabaul gives Japan all New Britain as soon as the conquest step comes. Having New Britain part of this new Territory would make the conquest of New Britain either be done hex per hex by the Japanese, or would need him to also conquer Wewak and Lae, which generaly are ignored by the Japanese as they give no good bases on no good targets. So the best from my point of view would be to create a new Territory (Northeast New Guinea), but we are already at the maximum number of countries... Unless Steve removes the limit ? But last time I asked, he told me... well... to forget about that [:D]

[Froonp]

There is another Territory that I would have liked to add in the game, this is Tannu Tuva, in the Sayan Mountains, near Mongolia. This was an independent country at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannu_Tuva.
It has 0 impact in the game, and also 0 interest, but it was accurate.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

It is simply that you have put red border lines between the Admiralty Islands and New Ireland, and between New Britain and North East New Guinea, when in fact all these were part of the same ex-German mandate and administered together.  Those red-lines shouldn't be there, but the one down the Bismarcks should.

So you're asking that the NE part of Papua down to Lae approximatively should be a separate Territory named Northeast New Guinea, and that Admiralty Islands, New Ireland, New Britain should all be a single Territory included in Northeast New Guinea. What you say is backed up by maps from the pre-war timeframe that I have.

I'd like to make Northeast New Guinea appear on the map (I love historical accuracy), unfortunately we are reaching the limit of the number of countries in the game. Merging all 3 into one would help, but I'm worried to do that because of conquest / liberations issues, especially with New Britain. New Britain now is conquered by conquering Rabaul only (which is free during the surprise invasions). Conquering Rabaul gives Japan all New Britain as soon as the conquest step comes. Having New Britain part of this new Territory would make the conquest of New Britain either be done hex per hex by the Japanese, or would need him to also conquer Wewak and Lae, which generaly are ignored by the Japanese as they give no good bases on no good targets. So the best from my point of view would be to create a new Territory (Northeast New Guinea), but we are already at the maximum number of countries... Unless Steve removes the limit ? But last time I asked, he told me... well... to forget about that [:D]

Clearly you did not take my advice.[;)] You were suppose to forget about that![:D]

[marcuswatney]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

There is another Territory that I would have liked to add in the game, this is Tannu Tuva

I had noticed the non-appearance of Tannu Tuva, with its capital of Kyzyl Khoto at the source of the Yenessei, but assumed that this was because its independence was sham (China still claimed sovereignty over it, which was why before the war a pretence of independence suited Stalin: it was finally annexed by the Soviet Union in 1944). Perhaps it merits a name in red and nothing more, like Ruthenia?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
I had noticed the non-appearance of Tannu Tuva, with its capital of Kyzyl Khoto at the source of the Yenessei, but assumed that this was because its independence was sham (China still claimed sovereignty over it, which was why before the war a pretence of independence suited Stalin: it was finally annexed by the Soviet Union in 1944). Perhaps it merits a name in red and nothing more, like Ruthenia?

I have put the name already [:D]. I'll also add the name of the capital, good idea !