I DON'T want my money back !

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

The point is, that having an idea of what to do will help immensely with absorbing the 'rules' on how to do it.

[Alex777]

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

I'm just tired of people complaining about a manual they never opened once.

Dude, we READ THE MANUAL (see our posts in this thread). The question is whether you read our posts before responding to them.

[zenmaster]

I also don't think the interface is that bad.

I admit that I played the board game many years ago in college and loved it, but I never even really read the manual.
( I have skimmed it a few time for reference such as which countries make up Ottoman, Minor Country Moral, etc....)

I was able to click my way through the interface.
I could not spot one piece of info and posted a question and somebody here showed me where I could see the stacks's morale.

I also read the forums about how to use the "AutoSetup" feature which make my quick start much easier.
I probably restarted 4-5games the first night I was playing as I was trying to work stuff out.

But by the end I had it down and never even picked up the manual by that point.

I'm not saying a Tutorial would not be nice.
Maybe the manual could be better (I have not fully read it yet....).

However, the UI was intuitive enough for me to pick it up.

If you read the forums, you also must realize the position that Marshall and others were in.
I suspect if Marshall had held off releasing too much too soon, some of the members may have stormed his home and forced him to release the game at gunpoint :>>>

So long as updates and add-ons continue to flow for this game over the next few months I will be happy with my purchase.

[Alex777]

Well, it's not what I would call a disaster.  Like everyone else, I was able to understand the interface after a bit of work.  The annoying part, I think, is the suggestion that those who are complaining either (1) didn't read the manual; or (2) should have realized that the program is marketed to those who played the board game (as if that would somehow solve the UI difficulties).

[76mm]

Hmmm, I'm very interested in this game but have never played the boardgame, and the overwhelming feedback on this forum is that the game is difficult to figure out how to play. So I'm holding off for now until the AI is improved a bit and a better manual/tutorial appears. I've been playing wargames for 30 years but don't have much patience for poor UIs or manuals, so I'm standing by for better feedback. I doubt I'm alone...

[tgb]

I don't know - I'm no genius, and I had never played EiA before (but I had played lots of other wargames).

First time through I experimented. As each phase came up I read the chapter on that phase, absorbed what I could, and learned the interface. After the first few months of doing this I felt I had a decent grasp of the "wherefores", if not the "whys".

After that I read the manual cover to cover. Then I started my first "real" game as GB, coming to the forum for clarification on fine points that were still eluding me.

The I read the manual AGAIN, cover to cover. AT this point I feel I have a full grasp of the game, even if I still have my "D'oh" moments (forgetting to buy factors for Free States, for example).

All in all I'd say it took 2-3 weeks of daily play with the manual open to learn the game and it's system.

Compared to some of the Paradox titles, that's nothing (hello, Victoria!)

[pzgndr]

Well said tgb. I never played EiA before either and somehow managed to to figure out the interface in a couple of days and then get into playing the game.

For every squeaky wheel complaining about how impossible it is, there are several other newbies who figured it out. It really is not that difficult.

[fvianello]

ORIGINAL: tgb
Compared to some of the Paradox titles, that's nothing (hello, Victoria!)

my god, Victoria!! THAT'S a game I was never able to learn.

[mariom1au]

Interesting reading.
Rant mode on.
I am in the same boat as far as not wanting a refund but there are quite a few things that have been changed without thinking of the ramifications on how you play the game.
The user interface is a bit clunky but once you have played around with it you more or less can work it out, but where does it tell you how to play. One example that gave me the  was how do you initiate a siege? A very simple thing when you know what to click but I certainly couldn't see it documented anywhere.
 
My bigger concerns are the lack of combined movement, the effect of paying 4pp to DOW a major power, the effect of extra fleets (in both combat and counter limits), the pp effects of the combat system and transport fleets (enough said).
I could probably come up with some more but I am inclined not to push it. I want to see this as a successful game for Matrix but also as a good game to play. I am certainly hoping that the patch(es) will fix the major issues, however as an experienced player of EIA I don't get how some of this stuff got through playtesting.
Oh and please don't take this as an attack on the playtesters I don't know the politics of what occurred behind the scenes.
Rant mode off. Hopefully I can start posting nice things to say in future.
Cheers

[NeverMan]

Tutorial needed. This is a COMMERCIAL GAME made by a COMPANY. Some of the posters here treat this game as though it were some community project freeware, which it is NOT. It's a $70 game. Let me repeat, a SEVENTY DOLLAR GAME!! That's the most expensive computer game I have ever even considered buying.

That said, the very little I did play of the game came pretty easy. Although I found, at that time, the UI to be ugly, out dated and clunky (which it looks like it still is, like some 1985 pixel programmer put together the graphics), I didnt' find it difficult to "use", in the sense that I could move my corps, make attacks, make builds, etc, etc.

[Murat]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Tutorial needed. This is a COMMERCIAL GAME made by a COMPANY. Some of the posters here treat this game as though it were some community project freeware, which it is NOT. It's a $70 game. Let me repeat, a SEVENTY DOLLAR GAME!! That's the most expensive computer game I have ever even considered buying.

That said, the very little I did play of the game came pretty easy. Although I found, at that time, the UI to be ugly, out dated and clunky (which it looks like it still is, like some 1985 pixel programmer put together the graphics), I didnt' find it difficult to "use", in the sense that I could move my corps, make attacks, make builds, etc, etc.

1] I am hoping you are saying that this should have had a tutorial.
2] You were a playtester, where were these comments before release? I find it appalling that a playtester describes the UI in such terms.
3] Luckily the community has worked on the project. SOMEONE has to help get the game working better especially in light of playtesters not having done so.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Murat

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Tutorial needed. This is a COMMERCIAL GAME made by a COMPANY. Some of the posters here treat this game as though it were some community project freeware, which it is NOT. It's a $70 game. Let me repeat, a SEVENTY DOLLAR GAME!! That's the most expensive computer game I have ever even considered buying.

That said, the very little I did play of the game came pretty easy. Although I found, at that time, the UI to be ugly, out dated and clunky (which it looks like it still is, like some 1985 pixel programmer put together the graphics), I didnt' find it difficult to "use", in the sense that I could move my corps, make attacks, make builds, etc, etc.

1] I am hoping you are saying that this should have had a tutorial.
2] You were a playtester, where were these comments before release? I find it appalling that a playtester describes the UI in such terms.
3] Luckily the community has worked on the project. SOMEONE has to help get the game working better especially in light of playtesters not having done so.

1] "Tutorial needed"...... I think that's pretty self explanatory.
2] READ MY POSTS!!!! I never got a chance to playtest, can't tell you how many times I have to tell you this.
3] Once again, you are attacking a group of people who put their free time into making this game happen. It just makes you look bitter and ignorant.

[Murat]

1] Glad you agree, mine is kind of simplistic.
2] tm.asp?m=1694934&mpage=2

ORIGINAL:  NeverMan
...when I became a betatester...
...Yes and? I made that post before they made me a playtester, what is your point?...

3] It was not for free as you pointed out since there was a free game to be had worth U$70 which as you admitted in many cases was not earned.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Murat

1] Glad you agree, mine is kind of simplistic.
2]

ORIGINAL:  NeverMan
...when I became a betatester...

3] It was not for free as you pointed out since there was a free game to be had worth U$70 which as you admitted in many cases was not earned.

2] discussed to no end or agreement.
3] I doubt that was the intention of many considering they didn't know they would be getting a free copy until they saw the NDA. I really hope MatrixGames doesn't accidently send me one, as I feel really bad about my lack of participation and certainly don't deserve, by any means, a copy. I just don't think it's cool of you to attack an entire group of people that spent a lot of time playing and trying to fix this game. It's not cool in fact, it's pretty damn dicky of you. Stop being bitter and get over it.

[Gravit]

3) IMO if someone commits to playtesting and either doesn't do what they committed to do or does a poor job of it then those of us who purchase a product, EXPECTI?NG it to have been playtested will have open season on the lack of product quality.  I have other Matrix products and they rock.  Somehow quality went in the toilet for this particular game.  Matrix needs to know the customer's displeasure to prevent this from happening with future products (such as World in Flames!!!).  I'm now not going to buy that game until I see a chorus of people who did posting that it was PLAYTESTED.