Resource Types

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Given some of the comments/concern about clutter, I decided I would only show the small font items , like resource types, at zoom levels 6, 7 & 8 (not at 1 - 5).

Originaly I intended to have the type of resource written in size 6 (unledgible at zoom 1 & 2), but I think that I'll have them written in size 4 or smaller so that they are ledgible at the zooms at which they appear (6-8), but still very small. I would like these to be very very small so as to limit the clutter.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I just hope you aren't using much time on this. Let Marcus write it up as an appendix on the CD and keep on truckin'. Every WiF player knows the Swedish resources are Iron Ore and Ploesti and the NEI have the oil. Beyond that, who has really cared?

Patrice is doing all the changes to the data. I wrote 3 lines of code, which took 5 minutes.

[marcuswatney]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I just hope you aren't using much time on this. Let Marcus write it up as an appendix on the CD and keep on truckin'. Every WiF player knows the Swedish resources are Iron Ore and Ploesti and the NEI have the oil. Beyond that, who has really cared?

It has to make commercial sense to make the game attractive to as wide a constituency as possible. Some people play wargames for pure entertainment but quite a few others read military histories as a hobby and see wargames as a way of learning more about that history.

One of the strange things about WiF is that it is simultaneously both brilliant and dreadful. The impulse system, the unknown length of a turn, the use of HQs, the sea boxes, the highly detailed air and naval units with their multitude of varieties ... these are all stunning and, in their time, highly innovative. But the game is flawed by the unimportance of any island not on a front boundary, and by its extremely poor (non-existent, I would say) economic model. Correct me if I am wrong, because I may have missed a module in the intervening years, but am I not right that in WiF there isn't even a growth mechanic?

Third Reich, published in 1974, eleven years before WiF, had a very basic growth mechanism that rewarded Germany for delaying total war by increasing its base income by 50% of build points available but not spent at the end of any particular year. Guns or butter? The decision was there for players to take. But in WiF what incentive is there not to spend, spend, spend?

I played WiF a great deal in the early nineties but gave up in frustration at the difference between the wonderfully detailed playing pieces and the woefully inadequate terrain and economics. This failure was summed up in a recent post by a player who commented that he never bothered with a MacArthur drive through the Southwest Pacific because he couldn't see a point to it when Nimitz could just steam-roller through the Central Pacific. Precisely. But put in a rule for US Army-Navy rivalry similar to IJA-IJN rivalry and a true picture of what was really going on in Washington begins to emerge. MacArthur saw himself as a future presidential candidate and he had many friends where it mattered.

So my gentle effort to encourage players to begin thinking about the running of a war economy I suppose does have a hidden agenda: what I would dearly like to see is Economies-in-Flames!

[brian brian]

good points Marcus. It was I who pointed out that WiF lets you pick a one or two prong drive through the Pacific (or none: India > Malay Barrier > heart of Japanese economy), and I will never play with the Japanese Command Conflict option because of the lack of matching ones for the Western Allies, who had similar problems in certain areas.

WiF does have some built in economic growth now as each country's production multiple goes up steadily throughout the game, but there are little to no player decisions affecting that. And there aren't a lot of competitors out there for a game of WiF's scope; the ones I know about make WiF's economics look fairly detailed. Didn't Victory Game's take on the Pacific struggle include a fixed reinforcement schedule throughout the whole game? What other game allows the players to design their armed forces as they go? Moving beyond generic 'other' resources and oil resources makes for interesting reading, but I I for one don't care if a resource is labelled on an already busy map. And the paper game is just about to update and improve the unit production process as soon as the next Annual comes out any ole year now.

[warspite1]

Surely we are not looking at introducing "economies-in-flames"? With the likely game launch already put back to the end of 2008, do we really want to be exploring further new concepts before getting the game launched?

One of the great things about WIF is the constant new product that has come onto the market - Ships in Flames, Planes in Flames, Politics in Flames et al. Players could then incorporate these or not as they chose. However the point is that there was a tried and tested game on the market to add to.

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick, but if not PLEASE can we stick to producing in computer format (as far as possible) a faithful reproduction of WIF - which I thought was the goal.

Things like tinkering - or even radically overhauling - the economic rules can surely follow once the game is out.

For what its worth I love all aspects of WWII history - military, economic, political - and would welcome looking at some of these concepts in due course - but please can we have the initial game out first?

[marcuswatney]

I wasn't suggesting Economies-in-Flames for MWiF ... I was just merely musing about the possible future direction of the system in Harry's earshot.

[marcuswatney]

India:  1SE Patna iron 2%
near Mahanad iron
near 'India' manganese 21% (this one better placed 2S)
 
2NE Hyderabad: can't find anything here - choices are:
 
2SW Hyderabad more manganese (at Sandur)
1NW Madras Mica 28% (at Nellore)
1SE Calicut rubber (at Travancore)
2W Madras gold (Kolar, just east of Bangalore)
 
The mica and rubber being on the coast makes their capture too easy for the Japanese, so I would recommend more manganese, as gold production is <2%.

[marcuswatney]

Cyprus: chromium <2% (in Troodos Mountains) or copper <1% (at Lefka). Recommend chromium as it is definitely in the mountains.

Czechoslovakia: 1W Prague iron <1%

I reckon that leaves only Canada, USA and Mexico remaining (which I will leave to others to determine) plus some of USSR.

[marcuswatney]

Bulgaria: Lead or zinc? I recommend lead, as it is used in batteries and ammunition.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Surely we are not looking at introducing "economies-in-flames"? With the likely game launch already put back to the end of 2008, do we really want to be exploring further new concepts before getting the game launched?

One of the great things about WIF is the constant new product that has come onto the market - Ships in Flames, Planes in Flames, Politics in Flames et al. Players could then incorporate these or not as they chose. However the point is that there was a tried and tested game on the market to add to.

Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick, but if not PLEASE can we stick to producing in computer format (as far as possible) a faithful reproduction of WIF - which I thought was the goal.

Things like tinkering - or even radically overhauling - the economic rules can surely follow once the game is out.

For what its worth I love all aspects of WWII history - military, economic, political - and would welcome looking at some of these concepts in due course - but please can we have the initial game out first?

Additions or changes to my task list are generally greeted with a flame thrower.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
Cyprus: chromium <2% (in Troodos Mountains) or copper <1% (at Lefka). Recommend chromium as it is definitely in the mountains.

I had written Copper, because I saw that there was more Cu than Ch on the map. I changed to Chromium.

Czechoslovakia: 1W Prague iron <1%

I had written Coal, but there is also Iron.

I reckon that leaves only Canada, USA and Mexico remaining (which I will leave to others to determine) plus some of USSR.

Canada is done, and Mexico too.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

I wasn't suggesting Economies-in-Flames for MWiF ... I was just merely musing about the possible future direction of the system in Harry's earshot.

The latest Annual, the 2008 one that is about to be released, contain a new free kit called Production in Flames.
It has nothing to do with gicing names to resources, but it refines the production rules of WiF FE.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Bulgaria: Lead or zinc? I recommend lead, as it is used in batteries and ammunition.

I had written Lead/Zinc. I left Lead only.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

India:  1SE Patna iron 2%
near Mahanad iron
near 'India' manganese 21% (this one better placed 2S)

2NE Hyderabad: can't find anything here - choices are:

2SW Hyderabad more manganese (at Sandur)
1NW Madras Mica 28% (at Nellore)
1SE Calicut rubber (at Travancore)
2W Madras gold (Kolar, just east of Bangalore)

The mica and rubber being on the coast makes their capture too easy for the Japanese, so I would recommend more manganese, as gold production is <2%.

The resources are not where you indicate. They are here :

[warspite1]

The latest Annual, the 2008 one that is about to be released, contain a new free kit called Production in Flames.
It has nothing to do with gicing names to resources, but it refines the production rules of WiF FE.


Does anyone have any idea when the 2008 annual is due on sale?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

India:  1SE Patna iron 2%
near Mahanad iron
near 'India' manganese 21% (this one better placed 2S)

2NE Hyderabad: can't find anything here - choices are:

2SW Hyderabad more manganese (at Sandur)
1NW Madras Mica 28% (at Nellore)
1SE Calicut rubber (at Travancore)
2W Madras gold (Kolar, just east of Bangalore)

The mica and rubber being on the coast makes their capture too easy for the Japanese, so I would recommend more manganese, as gold production is <2%.

OK, I re read and better understood your post.
I found coal in Yellandu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellandu) just 2 hex east of Hyderabad, which leaves the RP near the place where WiF FE has it.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The latest Annual, the 2008 one that is about to be released, contain a new free kit called Production in Flames.
It has nothing to do with gicing names to resources, but it refines the production rules of WiF FE.

Does anyone have any idea when the 2008 annual is due on sale?

Soon.

Is that OK ? [;)]

[Froonp]

Deleted because redone below, better.

[Froonp]

Here are the resources not yet identified (with directions as to where they are).

Clear 65,299 USA (2 hexes SW of Chicago)
Clear 64,296 USA (W Des Moines)
Clear 69,293 USA (SW Kansas City)
Clear 54,273 USA (E Spokane)
Mountain 74,271 USA (NW Los Angeles)
Forest 71,307 USA (NW Knoxville)
Mountain 65,310 USA (W Pittsburg)
Clear 68,306 USA (SW Colombus, Ohio)
Forest 72,306 USA (E Knoxville)
Forest 58,283 USA (Billings)
Mountain 68,284 USA (2 hex SW Denver)
Mountain 66,278 USA (E Salt Lake City)
Mountain 67,269 USA (W Reno, Sierra Nevada)
Clear 55,296 USA (NW Duluth)
Clear 71,299 USA (SE Saint Louis)
Mountain 74,304 USA (NE Birmingham, SW Chattanooga)
Clear 51,64 USSR (SE Voronezh)
Clear 43,62 USSR (E Moscow)
Forest 63,72 USSR (SE Tiflis)
Forest 39,88 USSR (W Sverdlovsk)
Kokand USSR (3 hex SE Tashkent)
Forest 42,87 USSR (2 hex NE Ufa, Urals)

[warspite1]

The latest Annual, the 2008 one that is about to be released, contain a new free kit called Production in Flames.
It has nothing to do with gicing names to resources, but it refines the production rules of WiF FE.

Does anyone have any idea when the 2008 annual is due on sale?


Soon.

Is that OK ?


Sounds good to me! - thank you [:)]