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castor troy
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

No, afaik you need first to activate the russians,moving in the "famous" hex...then you can attack the AFs...not before!
And i already moved back most of my major fighting force. In safer AFs...At Vladivostok remain only 150 fighters.

My planes won't be caught on the ground...


hmm, strange. An opponent of mine did exactly that to me. I have no idea if he was able to move a unit into the "famous" hex - like you call it - (which hex would that be???) unseen, but my planes were all on training when he bombed my airfields and it happened SUDDENLY. The day before I was not aware that the Japanese would attack me.
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

No, afaik you need first to activate the russians,moving in the "famous" hex...then you can attack the AFs...not before!
And i already moved back most of my major fighting force. In safer AFs...At Vladivostok remain only 150 fighters.

My planes won't be caught on the ground...


hmm, strange. An opponent of mine did exactly that to me. I have no idea if he was able to move a unit into the "famous" hex - like you call it - (which hex would that be???) unseen, but my planes were all on training when he bombed my airfields and it happened SUDDENLY. The day before I was not aware that the Japanese would attack me.

The hex is the one just south of Mutakiang...and...mhhhmmm...well, so better to move them all back now...however i'd need more feedbacks on this issue...i've been experiencing this with Hawker and that's what i've known about russian activation...
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castor troy
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by castor troy »

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

No, afaik you need first to activate the russians,moving in the "famous" hex...then you can attack the AFs...not before!
And i already moved back most of my major fighting force. In safer AFs...At Vladivostok remain only 150 fighters.

My planes won't be caught on the ground...


hmm, strange. An opponent of mine did exactly that to me. I have no idea if he was able to move a unit into the "famous" hex - like you call it - (which hex would that be???) unseen, but my planes were all on training when he bombed my airfields and it happened SUDDENLY. The day before I was not aware that the Japanese would attack me.

The hex is the one just south of Mutakiang...and...mhhhmmm...well, so better to move them all back now...however i'd need more feedbacks on this issue...i've been experiencing this with Hawker and that's what i've known about russian activation...


isn´t something in the manual that says something about a recon flight is already enough to activate the Russians? If recon is possible, I wonder if the Japanese can´t just order their aircraft on an airfield strike to activate the Russians. Would be easy to test against the AI but ... I´m at work now! [:D]
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Jim D Burns
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Jim D Burns »

I *think* what happens is he sets his air groups to their missions and they get to fly in the afternoon phase, after a land unit has activated Russia. I know Russian air can be caught on the ground, so this makes sense. Never played a Russian attack though, so someone with firsthand knowledge needs to chime in.

Jim
Bogo Mil
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Bogo Mil »

I was off for some days, but I have some comments on the discussions here.

In my opinion, a "gamey style" is not such a bad thing. It is more a question of philosophy. The most successful strategy game of all times is always played "gamey" - or do you know a chess player who tries to reproduce real world tactics of ancient Indian armies? Trollelite plays quite gamey and uses all tricks, which are allowed by the game and your house rules. You should just adjust your style a bit and do the same. It might become a new, interesting experience. All that whining about gameyness kills more fun than the gameyness itself.


In China you have still a chance to hold Chungking. The place is urban, has autosupply and is so far inland, that the Japs have great difficulties to supply a big army. I think you should not try to evacuate all your army via Liuching -  too many eggs in one basket, imho. A part should go via the clear hex NW of Hengchow. He can not close both paths that easily.

In the meantime, you have to exploit his weak position in the Pacific. His offensive and defensive capabilitiews there are very limited. I would consider to weaken the defense of most of your islands and Northern Oz. This should free enough troops for another big offensive. In this theatre, you have the chance to "win" a lot of time compared to the historic timeline. I would go for New Guinea now.
Maybe you lose one or two places to a limited counteroffensive if you weakened them too much. But this will not break you. All I said against the "Amboina diversion" will work here in the other way.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Benjamin Franklin)
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

ORIGINAL: Bogo Mil

In my opinion, a "gamey style" is not such a bad thing. It is more a question of philosophy. The most successful strategy game of all times is always played "gamey" - or do you know a chess player who tries to reproduce real world tactics of ancient Indian armies? Trollelite plays quite gamey and uses all tricks, which are allowed by the game and your house rules. You should just adjust your style a bit and do the same. It might become a new, interesting experience. All that whining about gameyness kills more fun than the gameyness itself.



AFAIK a recon flight doesn't activate the russians. Only marching towards that Hex activate them and so enable the attack air missions...

However, Bogo, i never whined (or, well, i THINK i never did it) nor called for gameyness.
And i want to avoid any comment that can leads me back to that discussion.
I'm sorry if this attitude may sound rude to your post, but i've already expressed my feelings and my policy here.
Thx.

My pacific islands are already empty.I have units only on Tarawa, Wotje,Maloelap,Eniwetok, Johnstons(a single base force here), Wake and Midway. Nothing more.

The diversions towards Ambonia or Timor will be made (i'm moving supplies and fuel for that towards Darwin) but it will require some time.
For the time being the CENTPAC vector is where we can push.
It's may guys...the allies really do not have those many units available at the moment!
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hades1001
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by hades1001 »

Everyone here except G.H is talking about how "gamey" troll, they just didn't get that troll moved in all his Southern Army and took G.H. by surprise, that is the key point why G.H. is going to lost China, not because troll used some tricks. This is a great success of tactics, someone here just try to ignore this success and keep talking something else.
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Invasion like flames;
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Everyone here except G.H is talking about how "gamey" troll, they just didn't get that troll moved in all his Southern Army and took G.H. by surprise, that is the key point why G.H. is going to lost China. This is a great success of [font="trebuchet ms"]tactics, someone here just try to ignore this success and keep talking something else.[/font]

I completely agree on that. I also told that to Trollelite...he has made a masterpiece of tactic at Canton.
I'm not losing china because of some flaw in the code.
If Troll had used the paras in a non-base hex like he did in India, his merits would probably be less clear...but he didn't. So hat off to Trollelite.
...at the same time let's blame myself...i didn't notice the manace[:@]...to confident[:(]
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TenChiMato
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by TenChiMato »

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Everyone here except G.H is talking about how "gamey" troll, they just didn't get that troll moved in all his Southern Army and took G.H. by surprise, that is the key point why G.H. is going to lost China, not because troll used some tricks. This is a great success of tactics, someone here just try to ignore this success and keep talking something else.

Iam not sure we have read the same AAR, in any case the one thing Iam sure about is that noone mentionned as gamey the mass concentration of forces in Canton.

As GH mentionned the use of non-base hexes paras attacks or other 'subject to debate' tricks as seen in India would have been another matter. As for catching GH offbalance at Canton with a mass transfer of forces, one will appreciate the styleplay or not but it has nothing to do with gameyness imo.

aztez
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by aztez »

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

ORIGINAL: castor troy





hmm, strange. An opponent of mine did exactly that to me. I have no idea if he was able to move a unit into the "famous" hex - like you call it - (which hex would that be???) unseen, but my planes were all on training when he bombed my airfields and it happened SUDDENLY. The day before I was not aware that the Japanese would attack me.

The hex is the one just south of Mutakiang...and...mhhhmmm...well, so better to move them all back now...however i'd need more feedbacks on this issue...i've been experiencing this with Hawker and that's what i've known about russian activation...


isn´t something in the manual that says something about a recon flight is already enough to activate the Russians? If recon is possible, I wonder if the Japanese can´t just order their aircraft on an airfield strike to activate the Russians. Would be easy to test against the AI but ... I´m at work now! [:D]


No the recon flights don't activate Russia.

You need to enter the specific hex just as GH described.

Very wise move regarding moving your airforce into safer airfields. I would suggest Northern part which are out of reach by trollelite.
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Jim D Burns
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Jim D Burns »

ORIGINAL: aztez
Very wise move regarding moving your airforce into safer airfields. I would suggest Northern part which are out of reach by trollelite.

Umm, as far as i know you cannot rebase anything in Russia till after activation. But I'll check that in my next turn just to be sure.

Jim
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mlees
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by mlees »

I am playing RHS CVO, against a Ai controlled Japan.
 
The Japanese AI air stikes the Russian airfield 2 hexes NE of Vladivostok twice a week, and daily launches recon missions over USSR territory. No automatic Soviet activation, Soviet units frozen in place, aircraft missions allowed remain training or stand down only. (Active allied units may not move to Soviet bases, either. I tried to ship supplies to a Soviet base dot in the hopes of assisting in the building up of a base there.)
 
I assume that activation may only come through a Japanese LCU entering the USSR (the "magic hex". not sure which one that is. Near Vlad?), or through Manchuko garrison requirements not being met by Japan.
aztez
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by aztez »

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
ORIGINAL: aztez
Very wise move regarding moving your airforce into safer airfields. I would suggest Northern part which are out of reach by trollelite.

Umm, as far as i know you cannot rebase anything in Russia till after activation. But I'll check that in my next turn just to be sure.

Jim

Oh.. There is no time to evacuate some bombers and fighters into North? I guess I should have read the houserules.

You might actually suggest at least 2 weeks "freetime" when Russia gets activated or I think you might be in very deep trouble.

He will come with at least 2 huge armies in Russia. And I would bet the main thrust will be headed into Northern Russia thus cutting your forces in two. Also there will be another army in the Southern Russia encircling Vladivostok.

So, if your HR prevent you to reorganize your defense and withdraw at least some airforce you will be in world of trouble!

Hmmm, didn't want to paint negative picture to the future but that the way I see things develop! [:D][:D]
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mlees
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by mlees »

Oh.. There is no time to evacuate some bombers and fighters into North? I guess I should have read the houserules.

Not a house rule. Game hard code.
aztez
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by aztez »

ORIGINAL: mlees
Oh.. There is no time to evacuate some bombers and fighters into North? I guess I should have read the houserules.

Not a house rule. Game hard code.

I hope Houserules aren't hardcoded! [:D][:D] ...What I meant was that didn't read whether there were any houserules in place regarding Russia. I sincerely hope there are.

As for the activation. Well, Trollelite must the enter the triggering hex meaning that he cannot launch airstrikes same time so there should be a chance to withdraw some aircraft before he hits the airfields.

I should know since I have invaded Russia with mixed results.... [8|]
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/05/42
 
I've already moved back many of my air groups in Russia...so there's no hard coded rule about that.
However there's no HR about the russian activation...so i have to face the two armies you're talking about.
Anyway at Bozrya (and in the area around) there are 9 forts and an army of 2000 AVs...not bad.
At Vladivostok i already have a plan for its defence...anyway my main concern is about a landing in the back...those coastal bases are very lightly defended...
we'll see.
In China we managed to put 1300 AVs at Liuchow...his 18 units are still marching...anyway..i doubt i have any chance of keeping the pocket open[:o]
 
More 1300 Jap AVs are marching from Nanchang...he defeated a light chinese division which was left behind...more 1300 AVs...[:o]
 
At Truk he moved many more fighters...140 today...and i lost 2 recon lightings due to A2A combat...at 25000 fts...gosh, his pilots must be really skilled!!!
 
Anyway, Everything is ready for Ponape. 2 Bombardment TFs are moving from Eniwetok and the CVs are arrived. The fast transport maga-group is being loaded, as long as a small transport TF with the Raider BN... Let's see guys...it will be a HOT week!!!
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 73,80
 
 
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 63
F-4 Lightning x 5
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
 
Port supply hits 3
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape Coastal Gun Regiment, at 73,80
 
 
Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 14
B-25C Mitchell x 30
B-26B Marauder x 18
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 47,38
 
Japanese Shock attack
 
Attacking force 9927 troops, 24 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1342 *this is the jap army coming out of Nanchang...really too many AVs...*
 
Defending force 609 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 12
 
Japanese max assault: 316 - adjusted assault: 306
 
Allied max defense: 11 - adjusted defense: 1
 
Japanese assault odds: 306 to 1
 
 
Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
 
Allied ground losses:
152 casualties reported
 
 
Defeated Allied Units Retreating!
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

The actual status of Russian forces

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hades1001
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by hades1001 »

I don't think your actions in central pacific is unnoticed, do you?

where is his KB anyway?
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/06/42
 
We're ready for Ponape.
He has a surface force at Truk!
We conducted a minesweeping operation today. More in program for tomorrow.
My 2 BB TFs are ready to come into action...let's see if his CAs spotted at Truk wanna come out and play against my BBs...I've set my whole bomber army to Naval attack at Eniwetok, with the P-38s on escort...
The invasion TFs will be kept on foot for another day...wanna first see what my BBs do...
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1014 encounters mine field at Ponape (73,80) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
 
7 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
MSW Bobolink, Shell hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage*those bastards are still operative!!*[:@]
MSW Whippoorwill
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 73,80
 
 
Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 2
B-17E Fortress x 62
F-4 Lightning x 6
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
17 casualties reported
 
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 2
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape Coastal Gun Regiment, at 73,80
 
 
Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 14
B-25C Mitchell x 34
B-26B Marauder x 24
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported
 

 
 
Hold your breath....
 
Karachi is at 270,000 supplies...lost 4,000 in the last week[:(]
Manila is still at 11,300...
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Gen.Hoepner
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RE: China is lost. Changsha falls

Post by Gen.Hoepner »

ORIGINAL: hades1001

I don't think your actions in central pacific is unnoticed, do you?

where is his KB anyway?


Not at all...no news from the KB since 1 month!
If he wanna come out with the Kb it will be fun...
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