At first glance version 4 appears great, but after running a few campaigns I now wish I had not ungraded to version 4. Why
1. It takes ages for a turn to pass
2. The initial core unit allowance is far too great, and in return the enemy artillery can massacre any infantry attack (the same probelm in SP 3, artillery far too accurate and deadly to AFVs and troops)
3. The numbers of troops within platoons now differ between squads for no reason
4. The pictures and details for some of the units are now totally messed up, and Ive only tried a few units so far.
5. My units don t seem to opportunity fire at the enemy.
6. The option to change range etc. for the whole unit by selecting the commander and clicking the formation button toggle now does not seem to work.
All these problems after just one night, I think I will return to version 2.3
Anyone else have any views ?
6.
Anyone else prefer version 2.3 over version 4.0
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
Hello Ballan.
1.The length of time it takes for a turn could be a function of Op Fire. Are you answering Yes/No or just letting it time out? Or it could be that the computer has bought a whole mess of units & it takes some time to move them.
2. if you don't like the core units allowance settings, set what you want to allow yourself and your opponent in the preferences.
3. you probably have the default "reduced Squads" on in your preferences. this gives you the realistic fact that some of your troops are away on leave, sick, wounded & replacements haven't arrived yet. Don't like? turn it off in your preferences.
4. The OOBs are an ongoing project in version 4. they were in version 1 & 2 as well. You have to realize that OOB files are a monster. The decision to stay with the OOB standard was made early in the coding of SPWaW and changing to a more managable file standard (and the requisite recoding) was just "not on". I personally am impressed with how few bugs there are given the amount of changes made.
5. do you have the units' range set to a reasonable number. Sometimes the computer starts the unit's range of fire for all units at 2. IIRC, this usually happens for defensive engagements (you are asked to delay or are being assaulted).
6. I haven't seen this on myself, but it may be a bug.
I hope this is some help to you,
Bonzo
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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com
1.The length of time it takes for a turn could be a function of Op Fire. Are you answering Yes/No or just letting it time out? Or it could be that the computer has bought a whole mess of units & it takes some time to move them.
2. if you don't like the core units allowance settings, set what you want to allow yourself and your opponent in the preferences.
3. you probably have the default "reduced Squads" on in your preferences. this gives you the realistic fact that some of your troops are away on leave, sick, wounded & replacements haven't arrived yet. Don't like? turn it off in your preferences.
4. The OOBs are an ongoing project in version 4. they were in version 1 & 2 as well. You have to realize that OOB files are a monster. The decision to stay with the OOB standard was made early in the coding of SPWaW and changing to a more managable file standard (and the requisite recoding) was just "not on". I personally am impressed with how few bugs there are given the amount of changes made.
5. do you have the units' range set to a reasonable number. Sometimes the computer starts the unit's range of fire for all units at 2. IIRC, this usually happens for defensive engagements (you are asked to delay or are being assaulted).
6. I haven't seen this on myself, but it may be a bug.
I hope this is some help to you,
Bonzo
------------------
Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com
Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Webmaster
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://www.nwbattalion.com
E-mail
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://www.nwbattalion.com
Here's what I've noticed, regarding the points you've made...
<<< 1. It takes ages for a turn to pass >>>
At least on my system, all aspects of the game have speeded up substantially.
<<< 2. The initial core unit allowance is far too great, and in return the enemy artillery can massacre any infantry attack (the same probelm in SP 3, artillery far too accurate and deadly to AFVs and troops) >>>
I'm halfway through the 4th scenario in a campaign that I started (US vs. Ger '43) and haven't had this problem at all. The AIs use of artillery, while probably more accurate than RL, does not detract in any way from the playability of the game. Since the end of WW1, artillery has been the primary casualty producer in modern warfare.
<<< 3. The numbers of troops within platoons now differ between squads for no reason >>>
As Bonzo pointed out, this is the "reduced squads" option that was added for ver 4.0. If anything, it adds to the realism of the game, as infantry squads rarely were full strength in combat.
<<< 4. The pictures and details for some of the units are now totally messed up, and Ive only tried a few units so far. >>>
True, some of them are, but the OOBs/LBMs are for the most part a major improvemement over v2.3. If you see something that is wrong, post it in the OOB topic.
<<< 5. My units don t seem to opportunity fire at the enemy. >>>
Not sure about this one, haven't had this problem. I for one love the new OP fire routine. Perhaps you have the delay set too low and are missing it?
<<< 6. The option to change range etc. for the whole unit by selecting the commander and clicking the formation button toggle now does not seem to work. >>>
Again, not too sure, I've always selected the headquarters unit, right clicked on it, changed the range, and select "apply to all units in formation" It still works.
<<< Anyone else have any views ? >>>
I don't =) Please don't regard the above as a flame, it was not intended to be.
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alea iacta est
sooperduk@hotmail.com
<<< 1. It takes ages for a turn to pass >>>
At least on my system, all aspects of the game have speeded up substantially.
<<< 2. The initial core unit allowance is far too great, and in return the enemy artillery can massacre any infantry attack (the same probelm in SP 3, artillery far too accurate and deadly to AFVs and troops) >>>
I'm halfway through the 4th scenario in a campaign that I started (US vs. Ger '43) and haven't had this problem at all. The AIs use of artillery, while probably more accurate than RL, does not detract in any way from the playability of the game. Since the end of WW1, artillery has been the primary casualty producer in modern warfare.
<<< 3. The numbers of troops within platoons now differ between squads for no reason >>>
As Bonzo pointed out, this is the "reduced squads" option that was added for ver 4.0. If anything, it adds to the realism of the game, as infantry squads rarely were full strength in combat.
<<< 4. The pictures and details for some of the units are now totally messed up, and Ive only tried a few units so far. >>>
True, some of them are, but the OOBs/LBMs are for the most part a major improvemement over v2.3. If you see something that is wrong, post it in the OOB topic.
<<< 5. My units don t seem to opportunity fire at the enemy. >>>
Not sure about this one, haven't had this problem. I for one love the new OP fire routine. Perhaps you have the delay set too low and are missing it?
<<< 6. The option to change range etc. for the whole unit by selecting the commander and clicking the formation button toggle now does not seem to work. >>>
Again, not too sure, I've always selected the headquarters unit, right clicked on it, changed the range, and select "apply to all units in formation" It still works.
<<< Anyone else have any views ? >>>
I don't =) Please don't regard the above as a flame, it was not intended to be.
------------------
alea iacta est
sooperduk@hotmail.com
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
-- George Orwell
-- George Orwell
Many of your problems are due to an inadequate understanding of the changes in the game.
My strong recommendation is to read the latest manual to understand these,Ballan.
I'll address a few of your points. All of them are answered in the manual.
1. Already done. But check all your settings and make sure all your delays are set on xxx in the preferences menu for a fast game, including fast artillery.
2. As has been set you can set the core number to what you want in the preferences menu..200, 400, 800, 3000...and also you can set turns, visibility, use a custom map. In essence the Battle generator has become a simplistic scenario editor if you so choose to use it as such.
3. That is the reduced squad option, changeable in preferences and explained in the manual.
4. You need to specify which ones so we can check them. I have not seen any as yet.
5. Opportunity fire is probably on. You haven't noticed a tiny screen at the bottom asking you if you want to fire. When you don't answer, the units won't fire. This is also another reason why the game seems delayed to you. Its waiting for your response.
Go to preferences and turn it off. Set it to 0. Then op fire is automatic.
Again, I strongly suggest reading that manual. It will help you a lot to appreciate these great changes.
Wild Bill
My strong recommendation is to read the latest manual to understand these,Ballan.
I'll address a few of your points. All of them are answered in the manual.
1. Already done. But check all your settings and make sure all your delays are set on xxx in the preferences menu for a fast game, including fast artillery.
2. As has been set you can set the core number to what you want in the preferences menu..200, 400, 800, 3000...and also you can set turns, visibility, use a custom map. In essence the Battle generator has become a simplistic scenario editor if you so choose to use it as such.
3. That is the reduced squad option, changeable in preferences and explained in the manual.
4. You need to specify which ones so we can check them. I have not seen any as yet.
5. Opportunity fire is probably on. You haven't noticed a tiny screen at the bottom asking you if you want to fire. When you don't answer, the units won't fire. This is also another reason why the game seems delayed to you. Its waiting for your response.
Go to preferences and turn it off. Set it to 0. Then op fire is automatic.
Again, I strongly suggest reading that manual. It will help you a lot to appreciate these great changes.
Wild Bill
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant
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victorhauser
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: austin, texas
Ballan
I noticed as I was getting ready to post this, in response to your problems, that WB had already answered your questions.
I would like to add the following though..
As far as artillery fire is concerned, it cuts both ways. I bought a lot of artillery with my support points and during the 1st three turns I managed to destroy several hidden units plus uncover a mine field with artillery fire. It saved a lot of my infantry and armor units which would otherwise have been casualties. So I take the good with the bad.
As much as it pains some of us to read, since it seems to be taboo among computer gamers, I play around with the program a bit just to get a feel for it. Then I approach the manual to gain the finer points I missed while playing ignorantly. Using this method I have come to enjoy the games even more.
Grok
I noticed as I was getting ready to post this, in response to your problems, that WB had already answered your questions.
I would like to add the following though..
As far as artillery fire is concerned, it cuts both ways. I bought a lot of artillery with my support points and during the 1st three turns I managed to destroy several hidden units plus uncover a mine field with artillery fire. It saved a lot of my infantry and armor units which would otherwise have been casualties. So I take the good with the bad.
As much as it pains some of us to read, since it seems to be taboo among computer gamers, I play around with the program a bit just to get a feel for it. Then I approach the manual to gain the finer points I missed while playing ignorantly. Using this method I have come to enjoy the games even more.
Grok
"My teeth have more bite, than your mouth has bark!"
Oh, dear!
I, too, had my moment of panic when first coming to grips with v.4.
Even having read the manual twice, I encountered some uncomfortable moments.
It's a function of how many changes there have been. To enjoy v.4, one has to re-learn certain aspects of the game that one may have got used to.
It's all worthwhile, because v.4 has transformed this game into something much closer to perfection.
Thanks to the Matrix team for bringing this jewel out.
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Fabs
I, too, had my moment of panic when first coming to grips with v.4.
Even having read the manual twice, I encountered some uncomfortable moments.
It's a function of how many changes there have been. To enjoy v.4, one has to re-learn certain aspects of the game that one may have got used to.
It's all worthwhile, because v.4 has transformed this game into something much closer to perfection.
Thanks to the Matrix team for bringing this jewel out.
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Fabs
Fabs
Point 6, not getting all the units in the formation to obey the range setting. This is probably due to playing with command/control on and having one or more units out of contact. If they are not in contact to receive the order from the platoon commander they can't obey it. Either turn command/control off or keep your formations together.
Hope it helps..
Hope it helps..
"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.
only thing about 4.0 that i'm not liking is the deletion of the number of men in an enemy squad with the limited intel option on.
Of course the obvious solution is to switch that preference off, unfort, there are too many other features tied in with it for realism so i have to leave it on. I can understand the FOW issue, but dont see what value having the # of men not displayed serves for intel issues. Once discovered, does it really matter if the # of men is not displayed? Having the big numerals displaying was actually one of the few things i liked about hte SP-III engine vs prev versions as it made it alot easier to keep track of infantry (friendly as well as enemy) forces on the map.
other than that ver 4 is way superior to 2.3, it blows my socks off (litterally), ask the Russians at Kursk (ouch)
Of course the obvious solution is to switch that preference off, unfort, there are too many other features tied in with it for realism so i have to leave it on. I can understand the FOW issue, but dont see what value having the # of men not displayed serves for intel issues. Once discovered, does it really matter if the # of men is not displayed? Having the big numerals displaying was actually one of the few things i liked about hte SP-III engine vs prev versions as it made it alot easier to keep track of infantry (friendly as well as enemy) forces on the map.
other than that ver 4 is way superior to 2.3, it blows my socks off (litterally), ask the Russians at Kursk (ouch)
After taking the advice from messages such as Bonzo and Wild Bill Ive a better understanding of the new game which version 4 certainly is. I thought I didnt need the read the version 4 manual, but I suppose I was wrong. Theres a few minor bugs such as the SU-12 appearing as a truct with no armor, but these will probably be ironed with time. Thanks for the postings fellas.
I'm playing with full realism. One thing that alarmed me, at first, was the idea that infantry temas would no longer specify their number. I could imagine my chasing a one man squad with no idea as to whether it was a full squad or not.
Psst! I've noticed something that y'all might have, and that's that at great range, you can inflict a loss on infantry and if you count the men on the graphic, it doesn't change, BUT, when you get infantry closer, at least when you give it some losses, you can then see each loss is represented graphically. BOY! Doesn't that add to the realism?!
Psst! I've noticed something that y'all might have, and that's that at great range, you can inflict a loss on infantry and if you count the men on the graphic, it doesn't change, BUT, when you get infantry closer, at least when you give it some losses, you can then see each loss is represented graphically. BOY! Doesn't that add to the realism?!
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Major Destruction
- Posts: 792
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- Location: Canada
- Contact:
The (depleted) squad size can make a difference to the number of weapons that it may employ. Seriously depleted squads may not have sufficient numbers of men to fire all of their weapons. Without knowing accurately the number of enemy men in an opposing squad you can never be sure if they will use weapon 4 which is usually a AT weapon or satchel charge.
In addition, larger squads typically have more killing ability. A full squad is more dangerous than a seriously depleted unit in terms of small arms fire against your infantry. Now you can never be sure just how dangerous they are until they open fire- and in online play you will never be sure if your opponent will opfire now .......or later.
IMO this is one of the best new features of the game.
In addition, larger squads typically have more killing ability. A full squad is more dangerous than a seriously depleted unit in terms of small arms fire against your infantry. Now you can never be sure just how dangerous they are until they open fire- and in online play you will never be sure if your opponent will opfire now .......or later.
IMO this is one of the best new features of the game.
They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.
Julius Caesar, 57 BC
Julius Caesar, 57 BC
As for point #2 about the core point allowance being far too great. I have seen folks point out that you can modify that number, but nobody has stated weather or not they agree with point #2.
Is it too great? I tend to agree that is sure "seems" too great, but I am not in a position to say for sure.
Is it too great? I tend to agree that is sure "seems" too great, but I am not in a position to say for sure.
I disagree, I think it's just about right. Many of us, in version 2.3 were starting out with 1500 instead of the 1200 or 1290 it started out with. The units are more expensive, but in reality, to me anyway, 3200 is sort of like the 1500 of old, but in any case, if one opposes the new default because you'll have to manage too many units, you can always adapt and just buy more expensive units and less trucks (not that I buy trucks).
Hello...
We increased the number of possible campaign core force points due to play testing requests. Since the cost of most armor increased, the players could no longer afford that with which they liked to play.
Although the new values are set for a medium sized core force, the player does not have to play with a medium sized core force.
If you are allowed 4500 points and wish to play with a 1500 point force, just purchase 1500 points worth of units. The computer opponent will see you bought 1500 points of units and buy units accordingly. It bases purchase points on what you spent, not what you could have spent.
Have Fun...
Michael Wood
___________________________________________
We increased the number of possible campaign core force points due to play testing requests. Since the cost of most armor increased, the players could no longer afford that with which they liked to play.
The new values are larger. If these are not large enough, the player can set the number of points for the core units by seting the player one battle points value in the preferences. This will provide a different beginning maximum purchase limitaion.Originally posted by Rhone:
As for point #2 about the core point allowance being far too great. I have seen folks point out that you can modify that number, but nobody has stated weather or not they agree with point #2.
Is it too great? I tend to agree that is sure "seems" too great, but I am not in a position to say for sure.
Although the new values are set for a medium sized core force, the player does not have to play with a medium sized core force.
If you are allowed 4500 points and wish to play with a 1500 point force, just purchase 1500 points worth of units. The computer opponent will see you bought 1500 points of units and buy units accordingly. It bases purchase points on what you spent, not what you could have spent.
Have Fun...
Michael Wood
___________________________________________
Originally posted by Mike Wood:
The new values are larger. If these are not large enough, the player can set the number of points for the core units by seting the player one battle points value in the preferences. This will provide a different beginning maximum purchase limitaion.
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Exactly!
Being fairly new to this campaign stuff, I started a new V4.0 campaign and just left the core point value on whatever it was on. Wow, I got 5000 points and 3500 support points. I said "Why not?" and started buying! Somehow I ended up with only 16 tanks and the Germans came at me with 42 tanks, but I had so much artillery and aircraft most of them never got close!
It was great - but the point being everything in this game is adjustable, so make it the way you want!
V2.3 better than 4.0? No way!
Don
The new values are larger. If these are not large enough, the player can set the number of points for the core units by seting the player one battle points value in the preferences. This will provide a different beginning maximum purchase limitaion.
---------------------------------------------
Exactly!
Being fairly new to this campaign stuff, I started a new V4.0 campaign and just left the core point value on whatever it was on. Wow, I got 5000 points and 3500 support points. I said "Why not?" and started buying! Somehow I ended up with only 16 tanks and the Germans came at me with 42 tanks, but I had so much artillery and aircraft most of them never got close!
It was great - but the point being everything in this game is adjustable, so make it the way you want!
V2.3 better than 4.0? No way!
Don
Don "Sapper" Llewellyn
Ballan, you did nothing wrong stating your view. It worked out well because in answering your questions I am sure we answered many questions on the part of others.
The changes from 2.3 to 4.0 are major and do require some reading to understand them. I think once you have a good grasp on how all this new stuff works, you'll be more than pleased.
It was a good post, my friend...Wild Bill
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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games
The changes from 2.3 to 4.0 are major and do require some reading to understand them. I think once you have a good grasp on how all this new stuff works, you'll be more than pleased.
It was a good post, my friend...Wild Bill
------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant