Defending the empire 1943, the allies attack - a Jap AAR
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: Battle over Akyab
Just a thought, Panzerjaeger - why couldn't you just pull out and let him take Akyab? Within 5 months it'll be completey indefensible through his larger army, better airpower and likely naval bombardments. Those divisions might be better on some of your Pacific rim defences in order to make US island hopping more costly.
I'm saying this because my opponent has a habbit of landing a significant number of troops at Akyab at the begining of a game and thus not giving me the chance to take it without any resistance. This generally becomes the focal point of my strategy and forces me into invading India.
In a recent game I've started, Im seriously considering ignoring Akyab altogether and focusing on other targets. You can't really defend everything...
Just my 2 cents!
I'm saying this because my opponent has a habbit of landing a significant number of troops at Akyab at the begining of a game and thus not giving me the chance to take it without any resistance. This generally becomes the focal point of my strategy and forces me into invading India.
In a recent game I've started, Im seriously considering ignoring Akyab altogether and focusing on other targets. You can't really defend everything...
Just my 2 cents!
RE: Battle over Akyab
As I see it the problem with abandoning Akyab is the following.
1) Rangoon is inside RAF fighter range. Mandalay and Pagan are in normal Spitfire range. That means I cannot defend anything in Burma against airstrikes anymore. Right now he cannot reach Rangoon with fighters, that is extremely valuable.
2) With Akyab gone, all Japanese bases north of Rangoon becomes in danger of being encircled. If he can march down and take Akyab, he can dump supply into the base and just keep marching south.
3) He is committed to Akyab now. If I can defend here, I will have pinned his offensive capabilities in Burma for a long time. Even if he wants to retreat later, it is a two month march back to the railline, and then more months of R&R. He has committed to this offensive, and it is a very binary offensive. Just a large stack advancing along a straight line. No encirclements, no tactical manuevers, just straight on. That makes it extremely easy to defend against.
4) What is the point of leaving Akyab? I will just be faced with the same alternatives at Rangoon, or Victoria Point, or any other given base along that coastline.
I know he will throw his full airforce at Akyab, and he will throw the RN at it too. But that is a good thing, it means I know where he will be. As long as he is committed to Akyab, I can defend all of southeast asia more easily. There are 27 units coming down that trail, it would have been far worse had it been 15 here and 15 at Mandalay. Then I would have to defend more positions, now I can focus.
Im sending in the entire Combined Fleet. His RN units will not have anything to put up against that force. That means I will own the Bay of Bengal, and that means it is my BBs and CAs that will bombard his troops at Akyab, not the other way around.
1) Rangoon is inside RAF fighter range. Mandalay and Pagan are in normal Spitfire range. That means I cannot defend anything in Burma against airstrikes anymore. Right now he cannot reach Rangoon with fighters, that is extremely valuable.
2) With Akyab gone, all Japanese bases north of Rangoon becomes in danger of being encircled. If he can march down and take Akyab, he can dump supply into the base and just keep marching south.
3) He is committed to Akyab now. If I can defend here, I will have pinned his offensive capabilities in Burma for a long time. Even if he wants to retreat later, it is a two month march back to the railline, and then more months of R&R. He has committed to this offensive, and it is a very binary offensive. Just a large stack advancing along a straight line. No encirclements, no tactical manuevers, just straight on. That makes it extremely easy to defend against.
4) What is the point of leaving Akyab? I will just be faced with the same alternatives at Rangoon, or Victoria Point, or any other given base along that coastline.
I know he will throw his full airforce at Akyab, and he will throw the RN at it too. But that is a good thing, it means I know where he will be. As long as he is committed to Akyab, I can defend all of southeast asia more easily. There are 27 units coming down that trail, it would have been far worse had it been 15 here and 15 at Mandalay. Then I would have to defend more positions, now I can focus.
Im sending in the entire Combined Fleet. His RN units will not have anything to put up against that force. That means I will own the Bay of Bengal, and that means it is my BBs and CAs that will bombard his troops at Akyab, not the other way around.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: fcam1387
Just a thought, Panzerjaeger - why couldn't you just pull out and let him take Akyab? Within 5 months it'll be completey indefensible through his larger army, better airpower and likely naval bombardments. Those divisions might be better on some of your Pacific rim defences in order to make US island hopping more costly.
I'm saying this because my opponent has a habbit of landing a significant number of troops at Akyab at the begining of a game and thus not giving me the chance to take it without any resistance. This generally becomes the focal point of my strategy and forces me into invading India.
In a recent game I've started, Im seriously considering ignoring Akyab altogether and focusing on other targets. You can't really defend everything...
Just my 2 cents!
It wouldn´t solve anything. In a month or two, he would just face those 28 units somewhere else. Akyab is a good place to fight for. Jungle hex in malaria zone with good fort level is not an easy target. And he can´t just surround it, as it would take a few months of marching through wilderness. PH can gain a lot of time and even if Akyab falls, he is not loosing anything important (if he will be able to safe the troops).
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RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
As I see it the problem with abandoning Akyab is the following.
1) Rangoon is inside RAF fighter range. Mandalay and Pagan are in normal Spitfire range. That means I cannot defend anything in Burma against airstrikes anymore. Right now he cannot reach Rangoon with fighters, that is extremely valuable.
2) With Akyab gone, all Japanese bases north of Rangoon becomes in danger of being encircled. If he can march down and take Akyab, he can dump supply into the base and just keep marching south.
3) He is committed to Akyab now. If I can defend here, I will have pinned his offensive capabilities in Burma for a long time. Even if he wants to retreat later, it is a two month march back to the railline, and then more months of R&R. He has committed to this offensive, and it is a very binary offensive. Just a large stack advancing along a straight line. No encirclements, no tactical manuevers, just straight on. That makes it extremely easy to defend against.
4) What is the point of leaving Akyab? I will just be faced with the same alternatives at Rangoon, or Victoria Point, or any other given base along that coastline.
I know he will throw his full airforce at Akyab, and he will throw the RN at it too. But that is a good thing, it means I know where he will be. As long as he is committed to Akyab, I can defend all of southeast asia more easily. There are 27 units coming down that trail, it would have been far worse had it been 15 here and 15 at Mandalay. Then I would have to defend more positions, now I can focus.
Im sending in the entire Combined Fleet. His RN units will not have anything to put up against that force. That means I will own the Bay of Bengal, and that means it is my BBs and CAs that will bombard his troops at Akyab, not the other way around.
In my game with Moses (I was Japanese). Akyab was one of the focal points of the whole map. I did take it on roughly the historical timeframe. But immediately - summer 1942 - it became the primary target for Moses India based air. I used fighters in Burma - about 1 fighter unit at each base - to provide a distraction for his fighters and bombers. Trading fighter planes and pilots for damage to my units at Akyab. Until summer 1943, this tactic worked well. I also sent in, unit after unit to Burma to match his LCU build up at Akyab. With his focus on Akyab, it has made my defense easier. I doubt I can hold forever, but my overall strategy is to lose everywhere at about the same meaningful pace. That is he cannot bomb the SRA or the home islands from one area - significantly sooner than he can from another.
PzH has significant breathing space in the SOPAC area. A "smoke and mirrors" defense will probably hold up castor for most of the next 18 months and still castor will not be threatening either the SRA or the home islands directly along that Axis. So the Aleutians, NewGuinea, Timor, China and Burma are the key areas, these are the places that if lost soon will enable strategic bombing of resources, oil, heaevy industry, etc. The targets that will dramtically reduce Japan's resistence.
I kept a major surface force (with the Kongo's) at Rangoon and used this force to bombard Akyab. I also kept all four of the at start minelaying subs at Rangoon. I was able to sustain about a 2500 point mine field. This field has sunk a number of warhips, largest being a cruiser. I also kept Betty/Nell and escorts at Rangoon. I have the 14ID at Andaman. Keeping full control of the Gulf of Martaban is essential to the defense of Burma. I've also built up Nicobar and Sabang and dug in fully at Moulmein, Tavoy and Victoria's point. All these bases must be held to support the AK supply line to Rangoon. I made regular (monthly at least) devlieries of 50K or more supply to Rangoon. Allied bombing chews up your supply very quickly.
Abandoning AKYAB seems to undermine the whole defense of burma unless you can hold on the road behind the river. I just worried whether I could do that. If I had a couple of divisions I could sit there for a year to let them dig in then maybe. But whenever I got two divisions it seemed better to send them forward to prevent AKYAB from falling in the first place!
[:D]
WITP Admiral's Edition - Project Lead
War In Spain - Project Lead
War In Spain - Project Lead
RE: Battle over Akyab
Looks like there wont be any houserule regarding min alt for 4-engined bombers on naval attack. This is the reply I got when I asked if he would consider discussing such a houserule.
Bolded the part I found amusing.
As soon as I get my B-24s I will have a min alt for all 4Es on nav attack of 10.000 which means starting in 10/42. If that´s okay for you. Like I said, at the moment I have those B-17s that you see at Thursday Island with reduced bomb load but a very very high exp after 9 months of war. And that´s it, no more 4Es on the whole map. They are a pain in the ass for you there but I don´t get why you park your cruisers for two weeks there, just waiting to get bombed. If I put my cruisers for two weeks 8 hexes away from 90 Betties would you feel for me? And 40 Allied fighters wouldn´t stop 90 Betties either (all Betties with the looong discussed torpedo availability). Kitakami sunk but your heavy cruiser was 500lb bomb prove anyway (which he shouldn’t be). Those bombers had two weeks such a low morale (and most of them were damaged) that they never launched, today was their first attack again, even though they were set to nav attack all the time, so IMO you had plenty of time to place your ships elsewhere, no?
Bolded the part I found amusing.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
The reason the cruisers are there btw, is to protect cargo ships unloading supplies. Im sure Castor would prefer if I didnt escort my cargo ships so he could raid my ports with his DDs, but there you have it.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
In my game with Moses (I was Japanese). Akyab was one of the focal points of the whole map. I did take it on roughly the historical timeframe. But immediately - summer 1942 - it became the primary target for Moses India based air. I used fighters in Burma - about 1 fighter unit at each base - to provide a distraction for his fighters and bombers. Trading fighter planes and pilots for damage to my units at Akyab. Until summer 1943, this tactic worked well. I also sent in, unit after unit to Burma to match his LCU build up at Akyab. With his focus on Akyab, it has made my defense easier. I doubt I can hold forever, but my overall strategy is to lose everywhere at about the same meaningful pace. That is he cannot bomb the SRA or the home islands from one area - significantly sooner than he can from another.
PzH has significant breathing space in the SOPAC area. A "smoke and mirrors" defense will probably hold up castor for most of the next 18 months and still castor will not be threatening either the SRA or the home islands directly along that Axis. So the Aleutians, NewGuinea, Timor, China and Burma are the key areas, these are the places that if lost soon will enable strategic bombing of resources, oil, heaevy industry, etc. The targets that will dramtically reduce Japan's resistence.
I kept a major surface force (with the Kongo's) at Rangoon and used this force to bombard Akyab. I also kept all four of the at start minelaying subs at Rangoon. I was able to sustain about a 2500 point mine field. This field has sunk a number of warhips, largest being a cruiser. I also kept Betty/Nell and escorts at Rangoon. I have the 14ID at Andaman. Keeping full control of the Gulf of Martaban is essential to the defense of Burma. I've also built up Nicobar and Sabang and dug in fully at Moulmein, Tavoy and Victoria's point. All these bases must be held to support the AK supply line to Rangoon. I made regular (monthly at least) devlieries of 50K or more supply to Rangoon. Allied bombing chews up your supply very quickly.
Abandoning AKYAB seems to undermine the whole defense of burma unless you can hold on the road behind the river. I just worried whether I could do that. If I had a couple of divisions I could sit there for a year to let them dig in then maybe. But whenever I got two divisions it seemed better to send them forward to prevent AKYAB from falling in the first place!
[:D]
Well, it looks like something similar might be happening here. I dont know what all the 27 units are, but I have ID'ed both the 18th and 2nd UK Divisions, so its definitively "for real".
Right now Im bringing in everything I can. Ive got the 5th Div arriving in the theater in a week, Im not sure wether to land it directly into Akyab or to land it at Rangoon. Im also brining in the 4th from Tarawa, it should arrive in a month. Im thinking Im going to use the 4th as garrison for Andaman, Sabang and Victoria Point.
The entire Combined Fleet is also coming into the theater. The first units should arrive at Singapore within a week. Perhaps I will run the SA-2 convoy with them. If I do, then I should be able to land another division at Akyab before he arrives with his monster stack. It will be bloody though.
Right now Ive got all my transport planes flying in troops to Akyab. Im flying in an engineer regiment and the 15th army HQ from Rangoon, and Im flying in the 4th mixed brigade from Mandalay. At the same time I have 4 tank regiments moving up the trail. 33rd and Imperial Guards divisions are defending Mandalay and Mytikina respectively.
In the central pacific, I doubt he will dare to try anything. I think I broke his will for a great naval invasion when he lost his CV and BBs. I think he will be more likely to move his naval units into the Indian Ocean.
Meanwhile, he will mount serious land bomber offensives against Timor and Port Moresby, it is not unlikely at all that he will do his invasions here instead. Here he can land under LBA and land based fighter cover (once the P-38s arrive).
So is that plausible? CVs and naval units go to the Indian Ocean, while the first invasions come from Australia to Timor or Port Moresby?
In that case, I should probably move 21st Division from Noumea and put it in Gilli Gilli instead. That means I basically give up Noumea without a fight...
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
Another wonderful day for the airforce...

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/22/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 33,78
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 31
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 15
Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 5
B-26B Marauder x 33
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 11 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 3 destroyed, 14 damaged
Japanese Ships
AP Hikade Maru
AK Asosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
APD APD-34, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
What is there to say? I intercept his bombers. I have an altitude advantage. My fighter pilots are all veterans. The bombers are not particularily heavy armored. The results?
Sigh...I dont know what to do. I cant stop his bombers, I cant even damage or disrupt them...they just fly through and bomb the target.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/22/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 33,78
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 31
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 15
Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 5
B-26B Marauder x 33
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 11 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 3 destroyed, 14 damaged
Japanese Ships
AP Hikade Maru
AK Asosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
APD APD-34, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
What is there to say? I intercept his bombers. I have an altitude advantage. My fighter pilots are all veterans. The bombers are not particularily heavy armored. The results?
Sigh...I dont know what to do. I cant stop his bombers, I cant even damage or disrupt them...they just fly through and bomb the target.
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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
I think I managed to sink two subs today. All in the effort to clear the way between Rangoon and Singapore.
I have almost completed the airlift of 15th Army HQ to Akyab, the remaining elements should arrive tomorrow. The Combined Fleet is passing the Phillipines on its way to the combat area.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/23/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 27,33
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru
Allied Ships
SS Permit, hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 27,33
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru
Allied Ships
SS Permit, hits 3, on fire
Permit suffers a real and penetrating hit. She will probably make it to port, but at least she wont be in my shipping lanes for the next 3-4 months.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 28,32
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru
Allied Ships
SS KVII, hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
The Dutch sub later sinks. As you can see I am doing a concentrated ASW effort off Rangoon. I have several ASW TFs, as well as roughly one hundred bombers on ASW duty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 30
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 4
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 4 damaged
Well, I managed to prevent an attack for once. It probably helped that I outnumbered him 15 to 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,30
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 8
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 8
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 3
B-26B Marauder x 22
IL-4c x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 3 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged
IL-4c: 4 damaged
Japanese Ships
PG Kure Maru #5
PC Ch 9
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
The morale of the Marauder unit must be in shambles, they suffered a single aircraft damaged, and the entire BG turned back. Good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,91
Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 62
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
AK Nissyu Maru, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Tokuho Maru #5
AK Tatuno Maru, Bomb hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
Off Thursday Island.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 53,91
Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 6
A6M3 Zero x 52
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 22
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 31
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 21 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed, 27 damaged
Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Bomb hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
1 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
I find this rather interesting. In our mail conversation I said that if Castor believes it is ok to use 4-engined bombers on naval attack below 10k, then he can continue to use them like that.
...I guess he doesnt think its ok.
Today to my great surprise I managed to shoot down a couple of bombers. I cant wait for the B-29 menace...that must be twice as depressing as this.
I have almost completed the airlift of 15th Army HQ to Akyab, the remaining elements should arrive tomorrow. The Combined Fleet is passing the Phillipines on its way to the combat area.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/23/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 27,33
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru
Allied Ships
SS Permit, hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 27,33
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru
Allied Ships
SS Permit, hits 3, on fire
Permit suffers a real and penetrating hit. She will probably make it to port, but at least she wont be in my shipping lanes for the next 3-4 months.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 28,32
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru
Allied Ships
SS KVII, hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
The Dutch sub later sinks. As you can see I am doing a concentrated ASW effort off Rangoon. I have several ASW TFs, as well as roughly one hundred bombers on ASW duty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 30
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14
Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 4
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 4 damaged
Well, I managed to prevent an attack for once. It probably helped that I outnumbered him 15 to 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,30
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 8
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 8
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 3
B-26B Marauder x 22
IL-4c x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 3 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged
IL-4c: 4 damaged
Japanese Ships
PG Kure Maru #5
PC Ch 9
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
The morale of the Marauder unit must be in shambles, they suffered a single aircraft damaged, and the entire BG turned back. Good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,91
Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 62
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
AK Nissyu Maru, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Tokuho Maru #5
AK Tatuno Maru, Bomb hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
Off Thursday Island.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 53,91
Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 6
A6M3 Zero x 52
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 22
Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 31
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 21 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed, 27 damaged
Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Bomb hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
1 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
I find this rather interesting. In our mail conversation I said that if Castor believes it is ok to use 4-engined bombers on naval attack below 10k, then he can continue to use them like that.
...I guess he doesnt think its ok.
Today to my great surprise I managed to shoot down a couple of bombers. I cant wait for the B-29 menace...that must be twice as depressing as this.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
as for units on the trail, I have now identified the following:
2nd UK Div
18th UK Div
2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
1st Burma Rifles Brigade
14th Indian Division
2nd UK Div
18th UK Div
2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
1st Burma Rifles Brigade
14th Indian Division
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: The air war
I have decided to pull back the larger combat forces from the outer perimiter. I will leave the odd regiment and brigade here and there, but the divisions will be moved from the outer perimiter (Johnston Island, Tarawa, Noumea) and rebase to the inner (Saipan, Timor, Rangoon). This move will take a few months to complete, but I am dispatching the transports now.
Meanwhile, a disturbing realization hit me today. His Wellingtons are using 1000 lbs bombs. That means they are a danger to my capital ships as well as my transports and lighter escorts. Something will have to be done about this before I dare to venture with the Combined Fleet deep into the Bay of Bengal.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/24/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,30
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 20
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 19
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged
Japanese Ships
PG Chosa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
This attack was with 1000lbs bombs. I dont know what is more frightening...that he has these bombs in the first place, or that his pilots managed to hit a small PG with them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25
Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 2 damaged
Allied Ships
MSW Cromer, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Maryborough, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
This should force him to think twice about basing so close to my bases. The Vals sink one MSW and damage the other. Recon tells me there is a BB at Chandpur. I wonder if its true. He knows I have a CD gun unit at Akyab, so that might be the reason for him to bring his BBs so close to my bases. But one thing that he doesnt know is that the 8th Heavy Artillery Brigade is also at Akyab. They have some 240mm guns that should be able to force even a BB or CA to think twice about approaching the base.
I have 1200 mines and three artillery units at Akyab, and I hope that is enough to prevent him from trying to bombard the base. Meanwhile, the Combined Fleet are currently off Manilla, still enroute to Singapore.
Meanwhile, a disturbing realization hit me today. His Wellingtons are using 1000 lbs bombs. That means they are a danger to my capital ships as well as my transports and lighter escorts. Something will have to be done about this before I dare to venture with the Combined Fleet deep into the Bay of Bengal.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/24/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,30
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 20
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 19
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged
Japanese Ships
PG Chosa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
This attack was with 1000lbs bombs. I dont know what is more frightening...that he has these bombs in the first place, or that his pilots managed to hit a small PG with them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25
Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 10
Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 2 damaged
Allied Ships
MSW Cromer, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Maryborough, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
This should force him to think twice about basing so close to my bases. The Vals sink one MSW and damage the other. Recon tells me there is a BB at Chandpur. I wonder if its true. He knows I have a CD gun unit at Akyab, so that might be the reason for him to bring his BBs so close to my bases. But one thing that he doesnt know is that the 8th Heavy Artillery Brigade is also at Akyab. They have some 240mm guns that should be able to force even a BB or CA to think twice about approaching the base.
I have 1200 mines and three artillery units at Akyab, and I hope that is enough to prevent him from trying to bombard the base. Meanwhile, the Combined Fleet are currently off Manilla, still enroute to Singapore.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
- jwilkerson
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:02 am
- Location: Kansas
- Contact:
RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
In my game with Moses (I was Japanese). Akyab was one of the focal points of the whole map. I did take it on roughly the historical timeframe. But immediately - summer 1942 - it became the primary target for Moses India based air. I used fighters in Burma - about 1 fighter unit at each base - to provide a distraction for his fighters and bombers. Trading fighter planes and pilots for damage to my units at Akyab. Until summer 1943, this tactic worked well. I also sent in, unit after unit to Burma to match his LCU build up at Akyab. With his focus on Akyab, it has made my defense easier. I doubt I can hold forever, but my overall strategy is to lose everywhere at about the same meaningful pace. That is he cannot bomb the SRA or the home islands from one area - significantly sooner than he can from another.
PzH has significant breathing space in the SOPAC area. A "smoke and mirrors" defense will probably hold up castor for most of the next 18 months and still castor will not be threatening either the SRA or the home islands directly along that Axis. So the Aleutians, NewGuinea, Timor, China and Burma are the key areas, these are the places that if lost soon will enable strategic bombing of resources, oil, heaevy industry, etc. The targets that will dramtically reduce Japan's resistence.
I kept a major surface force (with the Kongo's) at Rangoon and used this force to bombard Akyab. I also kept all four of the at start minelaying subs at Rangoon. I was able to sustain about a 2500 point mine field. This field has sunk a number of warhips, largest being a cruiser. I also kept Betty/Nell and escorts at Rangoon. I have the 14ID at Andaman. Keeping full control of the Gulf of Martaban is essential to the defense of Burma. I've also built up Nicobar and Sabang and dug in fully at Moulmein, Tavoy and Victoria's point. All these bases must be held to support the AK supply line to Rangoon. I made regular (monthly at least) devlieries of 50K or more supply to Rangoon. Allied bombing chews up your supply very quickly.
Abandoning AKYAB seems to undermine the whole defense of burma unless you can hold on the road behind the river. I just worried whether I could do that. If I had a couple of divisions I could sit there for a year to let them dig in then maybe. But whenever I got two divisions it seemed better to send them forward to prevent AKYAB from falling in the first place!
[:D]
Well, it looks like something similar might be happening here. I dont know what all the 27 units are, but I have ID'ed both the 18th and 2nd UK Divisions, so its definitively "for real".
Right now Im bringing in everything I can. Ive got the 5th Div arriving in the theater in a week, Im not sure wether to land it directly into Akyab or to land it at Rangoon. Im also brining in the 4th from Tarawa, it should arrive in a month. Im thinking Im going to use the 4th as garrison for Andaman, Sabang and Victoria Point.
The entire Combined Fleet is also coming into the theater. The first units should arrive at Singapore within a week. Perhaps I will run the SA-2 convoy with them. If I do, then I should be able to land another division at Akyab before he arrives with his monster stack. It will be bloody though.
Right now Ive got all my transport planes flying in troops to Akyab. Im flying in an engineer regiment and the 15th army HQ from Rangoon, and Im flying in the 4th mixed brigade from Mandalay. At the same time I have 4 tank regiments moving up the trail. 33rd and Imperial Guards divisions are defending Mandalay and Mytikina respectively.
In the central pacific, I doubt he will dare to try anything. I think I broke his will for a great naval invasion when he lost his CV and BBs. I think he will be more likely to move his naval units into the Indian Ocean.
Meanwhile, he will mount serious land bomber offensives against Timor and Port Moresby, it is not unlikely at all that he will do his invasions here instead. Here he can land under LBA and land based fighter cover (once the P-38s arrive).
So is that plausible? CVs and naval units go to the Indian Ocean, while the first invasions come from Australia to Timor or Port Moresby?
In that case, I should probably move 21st Division from Noumea and put it in Gilli Gilli instead. That means I basically give up Noumea without a fight...
(1) I few in a whole division (55ID) from Rangoon to Akyab - and Moses was cover capping with P-38s. It can be done. But it will wear out your transport force - and I used a big bunch of the army transports (Topsey's) to do it.
(2) You should probably plan for 4 divisions, 4 brigades, 4 arty and 4 construction engineers as your garrison. Also build up the forts as much as you can.
(3) Building up around Timor and Western New Guinea is also key. Dig, dig, dig and make as many L4 airbases (betty bases) as you can. The more nearby supporting bases you have the harder it is for him to knock them all out at the same time. You need to pick a line like Hollandia and really build up all your bases West of there. The route to the SRA through Northern New Guinea is just as dangerous as the others. And the "beak" at Vogelkpf needs plenty of engineer attention as well. Can't have too many engineers. Use your big Independent Engineer Regiments for the priority jobs and single BF + Construction units for lower priority tasks.
(4) In CENPAC I would expect him to move big time once he knows KB is in Bengal. That's why he should be keeping his carriers on the US side of the map. But we will see. The tough thing about playing Moses was that he managed to put his emotions aside and always try to do the optimal thing for the Allies, every turn. I don't know Castor's style, but unless I know my opponent well, I try to avoid under-estimating. But even if he does come out. Your Betty's can keep him honest. Your "stop line" is the Marianas. Might as well start digging in at Tinian (the clear hex) now!
(5) Giving up Noumea without a fight? Well without KB around you can't fight for it anyway, so you might as well cut your losses.
(6) I defended one hex west down the trail from Mandalay myself. Letting him sit on Mandalay allows Mychina to be cut-off. I put one division and one AAA unit on the trail. His bombers hit the AAA unit quite a lot! Actually had to rotate it out and replace it with another.
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RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund
as for units on the trail, I have now identified the following:
2nd UK Div
18th UK Div
2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
1st Burma Rifles Brigade
14th Indian Division
Update
Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 1st Burma Rifles Brigade
Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 254th Indian Tank Brigade
Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
Ki-46-II Dinah takes recon photos of 14th Indian Division
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
(1) I few in a whole division (55ID) from Rangoon to Akyab - and Moses was cover capping with P-38s. It can be done. But it will wear out your transport force - and I used a big bunch of the army transports (Topsey's) to do it.
Well, actually I have managed to fly in the 4th Mixed brigade in little over four days. Now Im starting to fly in a regiment from the 33rd Division. So, during the past week I have reinforced Akyab with
15th Army HQ
21st Engineer Regiment
4th Mixed Brigade
Im at fort level 6 and 80% towards 7. Today Im going to try a bombing mission to see what it looks like.
At Akyab? All that at Akyab?(2) You should probably plan for 4 divisions, 4 brigades, 4 arty and 4 construction engineers as your garrison. Also build up the forts as much as you can.
(3) Building up around Timor and Western New Guinea is also key. Dig, dig, dig and make as many L4 airbases (betty bases) as you can. The more nearby supporting bases you have the harder it is for him to knock them all out at the same time. You need to pick a line like Hollandia and really build up all your bases West of there. The route to the SRA through Northern New Guinea is just as dangerous as the others. And the "beak" at Vogelkpf needs plenty of engineer attention as well. Can't have too many engineers. Use your big Independent Engineer Regiments for the priority jobs and single BF + Construction units for lower priority tasks.
Well, Ive got all my engineer units at various digging locations right now. I have three in the Aleutians, three at Gilli Gilli, and the rest in Burma. But I'll bring the Aleutian-gang down south and put them to work on Saipan/Guam/Tinian.
(4) In CENPAC I would expect him to move big time once he knows KB is in Bengal. That's why he should be keeping his carriers on the US side of the map. But we will see. The tough thing about playing Moses was that he managed to put his emotions aside and always try to do the optimal thing for the Allies, every turn. I don't know Castor's style, but unless I know my opponent well, I try to avoid under-estimating. But even if he does come out. Your Betty's can keep him honest. Your "stop line" is the Marianas. Might as well start digging in at Tinian (the clear hex) now!
Im trying not to underestimate him, but his move with the CVs up the coast of Australia directly into harms way off Thursday Island makes it hard. He used the same CVs very recklessly just two weeks later when he used them for a completely pointless raid deep inside Betty-territory again.
edit
Actually I should clarify that. I believe it is the other way around. I believe he is underestimating me, and that has caused him to make several misstakes. He let a huge part of his navy be caught at Darwin, he put all his CVs at risk at Thursday Island... I think that might be more about him underestimating me, than him being a bad player.
Now, I havent seen the CVs since then, so I guess he is up to something...I dont know what it is, but either an invasion in the south or central pacific, or the Indian Ocean are the best bets I think.
Yeah, Ill leave some nav guards and some base forces etc to give the impression of a defence, but the big units will go to New Guniea instead.(5) Giving up Noumea without a fight? Well without KB around you can't fight for it anyway, so you might as well cut your losses.
(6) I defended one hex west down the trail from Mandalay myself. Letting him sit on Mandalay allows Mychina to be cut-off. I put one division and one AAA unit on the trail. His bombers hit the AAA unit quite a lot! Actually had to rotate it out and replace it with another.
Well, Ive got a tank regiment up at the bend of the railline between Mandalay and Mychina, so I should spot him if he is trying to come down that trail. But it seems all of his army is marching down the trail towards Akyab.
I wonder what his defences at Ceylon looks like right now... do you think that is an idea I should entertain? Ive got the 4th Div coming in from Tarawa in about a month, should I try something funny with them, or just use them to boost the defences?
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
Ok, today I rechecked Akyab.
Lvl 7 forts
1250 AV
12000 supplies (more coming in)
What is required to break that? How will the allied divisions look fatigue and morale-wise after marching all the way to Akyab? What is their likely supply status?
Lvl 7 forts
1250 AV
12000 supplies (more coming in)
What is required to break that? How will the allied divisions look fatigue and morale-wise after marching all the way to Akyab? What is their likely supply status?
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
- jwilkerson
- Posts: 8272
- Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 4:02 am
- Location: Kansas
- Contact:
RE: Battle over Akyab
Level-7 is good ... level-9 is perfect!
Well if you get really lucky, maybe his giant stack (I call such stacks "telephone poles" from the old days where we actually had physical counters moving around) will arrive piece-meal and you can attack a piece of it right after it arrives. But I wouldn't count on that. If it all arrives together, I still doubt you could attack it he will get the Jungle terrain. And if he can guess when he will arrive he might bomb your troops anyway or at least have some of his airfarce of ground attack - so your attack would pull them in.
So you're probably best off on passive defense as far as LCU at Akyab are concerned.
The more supply you have at Rangoon, the more will get pulled forward. Same for him at his closet bases. He should be building up his forward supply with massive regular convoys.
===
As to Ceylon, or even Madras. If you're bring KB, you might as well go over there and have a look. Put your Alf's and maybe some of your Jake's on recon and they should tell you something about the land defenses. If you see some stacks with short sizes (1-2) then you might have a target!
You can also try to run some bombardments against his troops at Akyab, I did a bunch but didn't have much luck.
===
keep track of how many divisions and brigades you see in that stack, but based on unit count and that fact that you have seen it full of divided units, I guess it was a darn strong stack. And if it is 7 or more divisions and 7 or more brigades with supporting troops then yes, you'll need every bit of that garrison I laid out.
==
What is he targeting right now at Akyab and is he bombing anything else in Burma?
Well if you get really lucky, maybe his giant stack (I call such stacks "telephone poles" from the old days where we actually had physical counters moving around) will arrive piece-meal and you can attack a piece of it right after it arrives. But I wouldn't count on that. If it all arrives together, I still doubt you could attack it he will get the Jungle terrain. And if he can guess when he will arrive he might bomb your troops anyway or at least have some of his airfarce of ground attack - so your attack would pull them in.
So you're probably best off on passive defense as far as LCU at Akyab are concerned.
The more supply you have at Rangoon, the more will get pulled forward. Same for him at his closet bases. He should be building up his forward supply with massive regular convoys.
===
As to Ceylon, or even Madras. If you're bring KB, you might as well go over there and have a look. Put your Alf's and maybe some of your Jake's on recon and they should tell you something about the land defenses. If you see some stacks with short sizes (1-2) then you might have a target!
You can also try to run some bombardments against his troops at Akyab, I did a bunch but didn't have much luck.
===
keep track of how many divisions and brigades you see in that stack, but based on unit count and that fact that you have seen it full of divided units, I guess it was a darn strong stack. And if it is 7 or more divisions and 7 or more brigades with supporting troops then yes, you'll need every bit of that garrison I laid out.
==
What is he targeting right now at Akyab and is he bombing anything else in Burma?
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- DuckofTindalos
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RE: Battle over Akyab
Heh... "Telephone poles"... Don't remind me, Joe...[:D]
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
- jwilkerson
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RE: Battle over Akyab
BTW if you can bomb a few of the units in his giant stack it might help throw off the timing of their arrival.
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Ride to the sound of the guns!
The cavalry has arrived at Singapore. Now, ride to the sound of the guns!

After the upgrades, I have plenty of radar cover for my TFs.
The KB is escorted by 3 radar equipped DDs, the two surface combat TFs have one each.
For once, I have adequate AAA aswell. I believe the KB has over 6000 in flak value. Might not be much by US standards, but its about three times as much as you start out with.

After the upgrades, I have plenty of radar cover for my TFs.
The KB is escorted by 3 radar equipped DDs, the two surface combat TFs have one each.
For once, I have adequate AAA aswell. I believe the KB has over 6000 in flak value. Might not be much by US standards, but its about three times as much as you start out with.
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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
RE: Battle over Akyab
ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
What is he targeting right now at Akyab and is he bombing anything else in Burma?
Right now he isnt doing anything. Recon flights, no defensive CAP over his bases, no strikes on my bases. Calm before the storm no doubt, but I also think he suffered heavily in the convoy battles a week ago. I have spotted some capital ships at Chandpur, but they are not doing any raids.
I believe he is massing for an all-out attack on the airfield at Akyab. At the same time I believe he fears my bases. In almost all of his emails he keep complaining about how powerful the Japanese AAA is, so he has an enormous respect for that. Since I know this, Im pouring in AAA to my bases, I have 4-5 AA units at all bases in Burma...except, ironically...Akyab, where I only have one. I have more coming up the trail, but they will not arrive before his stack does.
So, my bet is the following will happen.
He will launch a huge shore bombardment attack on Akyab. The same day he will launch a massive airstrike at the base.
To counter that, Im moving in the Combined Fleet. I will move 5th Division directly to Akyab, they are currently three days out from Rangoon. They will wait for the fleet, and then they will sail together under the protective CAP of the KB. Once the 5th Div arrives, I will have over 1600 AV at akyab and they should be at fort lvl 8 by that time.
The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..



