Need a little help please

[Bobby Leverton]

I always look on this forums and have done for a number of years but i just wasn't a poster until now!

I'm looking forward to this one coming out and am a massive fan of the original, which i'm playing at the mo on the lastest patch.

I need a little help because i can never seem to get bomber command to inflict any damage on factories during night attacks even though i use 617 squadron, and it is really frustrating me. Is it possible to do this? [&:]

Also what is the best method to use when night bombing cities...is it best to send one big raid to a city or to attack a city with smaller raids coming from different directions. Or is it better to attack several cities with small raids during the night?

[fochinell]

I need a little help because i can never seem to get bomber command to inflict any damage on factories during night attacks even though i use 617 squadron, and it is really frustrating me. Is it possible to do this?

It is difficult to hit factories using BC. Some of the key points in my experience are:

1. Select big factories (big in size, not necessarily in output), with recent recce coverage (within last 2 days) as targets. Reduce altitude if the Flak permits (say 8,000 ft against an undefended target); although I usually can't be bothered to go below 20,000 feet as the morale loss from heavy Flak at lower altitudes isn't worth it IMO. Factories in urban areas give you a useful bonus in TERROR score by collateral urban damage even if you don't destroy them.

2. Concentration counts - a large number of synchronised smaller raids will be more accurate and do more damage than one large raid. Use a number of small raids following the same route to the same target. I am for a series of raids of up to 120-144 bombers (5 or 6 sqns of 24 a/c). Plot a route which avoids known flak nests - they will reduce your accuracy.

3. Select raid leaders with high morale and quipped with H2S. If you're short of H2S-equipped units, select high morale raid leaders and adjust their take-off time to bomb about 2-5 minutes after an H2S-lead raid. High morale (preferably 99%) is more important than high experience. Don't bother to send units with less than 50% morale; they will almost always miss.

4. If you're plotting a large group of raids on an urban target, consider having different approach routes to the target, i.e. have one raid come in from the north, one from the south and another from the east, all synchronised to have the same time-on-target. This will minimise creep-back (later-arriving units bombing early along the line of approach).

5. After you've hit the central urban areas and their RR targets, try and get the bombers to hit urban areas which haven't been substantially damaged yet. Do this by selecting factory targets in undamaged urban areas, and selecting approach routes over undamaged areas to exploit creep-back. Check the urban damage screen to see which areas have already been turned yellow by bombing and fire damage, and aim to hit un-touched grey areas instead.

6. For targets within 250 miles of the UK, use the Oboe-equipped mosquitos of 8 Group to hit the same target as the heavies, timed to arrive just after the first wave of raid leaders. They will help keep some of the later-arriving heavies on target. But don't throw all the mossies in; later-arriving mossies will be inaccurate just like the later-arriving heavies, and they may lead some astray.

[Bobby Leverton]

Thank you very much, that was very helpful.

i'll give that advice a go tonight when I get back from work...if my wife lets me on the computer!

One more thing, how is it best to use fighter sweeps to cover a bombing raid? My sweeps very rarely get into combat with any german fighters even though they follow the same path as the bombing raid.

[Hard Sarge]

some of my ideas

for BC, yes it can take out point targets, I like to go in low, 4-8 K, with small raids (no more then 3 Squadrons, if one hits, the target is normally done, so no need for overkill, plus alot of bombers just means more bombs hitting nothing)

the key to these kinds of raids, is timeing and plotting, you need to sneak them in, trying to make sure the NJGs are busy, it can really ruin your day, if these guys get caught in a running fight

plus pick your targets with care, a massive Flak target is just going to have a field day, and as has been stated, Recon the targets, the more the better

3 200 plane raids can be better then one 600 plane raid, going to be a lot of creep and missed bomb runs, plus it tips off the enemy as to where you are going

if you split raids to different targets, keep them apart from each other, Bombers at night, will drop any fires seen

also as been said, 3 200 planes raids to the same target can do better then 1 large 600 plane raid

Sweeps in the old game, are really hit or miss, try plotting them to the flanks of the main raid, or try to follow behind a raid  (the AI likes to slip behind a raid and pick on cripples)

the new game, Sweeps can be more set to a target and then turn into a patrol, so they will fly in the same general area that they are plotted to (or to a 2ndary target, so you could say, sweep a AF in the area and then patrol 50-100 miles behind it (if you got the gas and the range) {of course, we have a little trouble with it now, and we need to fix how the fuel is used up better}

the ideal for a sweep in the old game, would be to pick a path, that happens to be the path that the LW uses to return to base, if the timing is right, they will fly along the same path as the LW, at the same time as the LW is

that said, the real trick is to time it right

[Bobby Leverton]

Thanks Hard Sarge...it can be so frustrating plotting all those raids, having the sky full of planes and the thinking you have adequate cover only for your sweep to miss everything and your bombers to bomb nothing!

I suppose thats the beauty of the game though because everything cant go right all the time!

he original is ace so i cant wait to try out the new version with all the improvements and changes! [:D]

[tblersch]

Kind of an annoying question...but how do you KNOW you're not causing damage? I used to think BC couldn't hit factories, then I hit upon the brilliant idea of recon-ing the targets the next morning. Turned out I was hitting factories effectively with BC far more often than I realized.

Other than that...what fochinell and HS said. More and smaller raids is definitely more effective than one large raid; I'm actually more extreme than the other two in that regard - rather than one 30-squadron raid, for example, I'll plot ten 3-squadron raids at the same target. And if I'm trying to hit a factory specifically (rather than just targeting one, by way of causing area damage as fochinell suggested), I plot the bombers lower to increase accuracy, never over 16k feet.

[Hard Sarge]

good point, raids at night, do not show recon damage, only area targets get a recon report, so you may do say, 75% damage to a area target and still show no damage to the RR

I will check the summery page during a raid, check the page right before you get to the target and then check it after the raid is over, the summery page will show the scoreing changes, which of course, if you have 3 or 4 raids hitting around the same time, this don't help much, but good for point targets

[Bobby Leverton]

I have now managed to successfully bomb factories with bomber command, and i've also smashed a few German cities now as well! [:D]

You are right though becasue i've only just realised that you dont know the full extent of the damage you have caused on a night raid until you recon the target the day after. It took me ages to work that one out!

[Hard Sarge]

interesting story, BC installed a flashbang type device, for when the bombers dropped the cookie, idea being to see where the cookie should of hit

hassle was, they didn't tell the Crews that they did so, turns out a number of guys were dropping the Cookie over the north sea on the way in (bad weather, iceing and what not) and were busted after the missions for dropping early

after the war, in the talks the Intell guys had with a number of LW pilots, the Night guys were all confused as to why BC didn't use that flash device more, they were scared to death of it, the pilots thought it was something to take them out

of course, on the other side of the coin, was the scarecrow flak shells, BC crews would report them, and most would laff, as they thought the Germens had made up shells to look like bombers expoding, they felt it was a waste of time, as they didn't think they were bombers, just badly placed flak shells

after the war, the intell guys wanted info on them, none of the pilots or flak people know what they were talking about ? what they were seeing, were really bomber exploding, but they never believed it

read about a English Night Fighter pilot flying along with a raid, and he was up above the bombers, there was  nice layer of clouds beneath the bombers, the pilots thoughts at the moment, were that he hoped the bomber crews never got a chance to see what they really looked like at night, he could see every one of them

on darker nights with a cloud layer, the Germens would do the same thing, shineing there spotlights onto the bottom of the clouds, to light them up, any fighters above the clouds would see the bombers agaisnt the clouds