Modders - German Vehicle Scale Diagrams

[Mobius]

Here is a pretty good source for a number of 3 view diagrams of German vehicles.
So for you 3D model modders out there.

http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/strony_www/profile.htm

I was looking for scale diagrams for the Brummbar and found one.

[Mobius]

And how many games have three versions of the Brummbar?[:D]

[jamespcrowley]

Excellent work Mobius!
 
Will each of the models have it's own spec. to reflect the differences in armor and MG armament?

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Excellent work Mobius!

Thanks.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley

Will each of the models have it's own spec. to reflect the differences in armor and MG armament?

Of course. [:D]

[jamespcrowley]

Mobius, I'm curious as to how the "modding" process works within the PC engine.
 
Having created the new model, presumably you then have to create a spec. sheet for it and decide on the value of the various atrributes.
 
Does this then integrate into the game automatically or is there more process to be done?
 
Can potentially any vehicle be added to the engine or are there some limiting factors and. if so, what are they.
 
It would be fascinating to mod something like a 10.5 K18 Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa, of which only 2 were made in 1941 and were used in Russia by Tank destroyer Battalion 521 (3rd Panzer Division), one of which had some success against enemy armour. It seems to have operated in the Kiev/Kharkov area.

[junk2drive]

Go to Steve's Panzer Wars website. There are tables etc for just about every war thing in the 20th century and beyond. This data is what PC is based on. From this data you can create a unit and it's kit in xml then use an exsisting 3D unit to represent it or if you have the programs and skills, create the 3D model. Neat huh?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Having created the new model, presumably you then have to create a spec. sheet for it and decide on the value of the various atrributes.
Does this then integrate into the game automatically or is there more process to be done?

Integrates right in, as long as you put it in the right folder. The manual includes a fair amount of info on editing the files and Kharkov includes a LOT more tools to make scenario and campaign editing very easy.

Can potentially any vehicle be added to the engine or are there some limiting factors and. if so, what are they.

Potentially any, but the game is currently designed to support German and Soviet units. For example though, you could right now give the Germans a M60A3 and rate it using the same system and the game would use it.

It would be fascinating to mod something like a 10.5 K18 Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa, of which only 2 were made in 1941 and were used in Russia by Tank destroyer Battalion 521 (3rd Panzer Division), one of which had some success against enemy armour. It seems to have operated in the Kiev/Kharkov area.

Yep, that would certainly be doable, and you can even set the start date, end date, median date and rarity/prevalence for the random battle generator so that they show up extremely rarely.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Mobius, I'm curious as to how the "modding" process works within the PC engine.
Having created the new model, presumably you then have to create a spec. sheet for it and decide on the value of the various atrributes.

The model is separate from the data sheet. The data specs are xml and it must have tags of file paths to its 3D model. So for the tanks not in the game (say for the period 1944-45) we use a generic ({PZIII) model as a place holder until someone builds the actual 3D model.
The values of the various aspects view on the data is based on armor in centimeters adjusted by angle and quality.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Does this then integrate into the game automatically or is there more process to be done?

The game engine reads all the tank data xmls into a table for processing. If one of those is selected for a scenario the game goes out and loads the Direct.x model when the scenario starts to run. The xml is just text and is easy to change. The model is Direct.x parts (about 5 files) and must reside in a folder. A Direct.x model must be built by using a program like Autocad 3D Max. (Not a cheap item.)

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Can potentially any vehicle be added to the engine or are there some limiting factors and. if so, what are they.

Most vehicles, yes. The game engine doesn't handle multi-turrets or multiple main guns. So Grants, T-35s or Char-B1 bis won't work right.

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
It would be fascinating to mod something like a 10.5 K18 Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa, of which only 2 were made in 1941 and were used in Russia by Tank destroyer Battalion 521 (3rd Panzer Division), one of which had some success against enemy armour. It seems to have operated in the Kiev/Kharkov area.

Yes, this would be fairly easy as most of the chassis, tracks and wheels are already done in the Brummbar. The superstructure and gun just needs to be modeled.
The 105mm K18 gun data is mostly there. But you would have to make a different xml file than the one for the K18 field gun as that represents the accuracy of a field cannon. The Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa had tank sights and was much more accurate.
Unfortunately this vehicle is not well armoured so should stay far from the enemy. On a 1km x 1km map it is hard to do.

[jamespcrowley]

Thanks for the answers Erik and Mobius. Fascinating stuff.
 
I don't have the skills or software to make the 3D models but I have a friend who does. I shall have to see if I can persuade him to invest a little of his time when PCK comes out.
 
I am curious as to why the map is limited to just 1K x 1K? This does seem to negate the superior optics and some of the AT weapons that the Germans had and where they would naturally employ them at much longer ranges. Is this something that may change in the future?
 
I think that with larger maps and destructible buildings you would not only have an excellent replacement to the CM1 series but possibly its natural successor, in a way that CM2 has so far failed to do (for me at least).
 
Really looking forward to this one. And, by the by, what is the new feature, from the other thread? Not sewing machines, I'll warrant.

[Mobius]

I think the limit of 1k x 1k map or an array of 1 million info cells may be linked to how much memory the computing power of the target market has. In hindsight maybe just stretching out the map skin to 2x2 m per cell could have been done.
I don't know what effect this would cause. Maybe things wouldn't look as good?

In the future, with computing power always increasing maybe a 2k x 2k array or 4 million info cells as well as streching could get a viable map to be 4km x 4km.

[jamespcrowley]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

I think the limit of 1k x 1k map or an array of 1 million info cells may be linked to how much memory the computing power of the target market has. In hindsight maybe just stretching out the map skin to 2x2 m per cell could have been done.
I don't know what effect this would cause. Maybe things wouldn't look as good?

In the future, with computing power always increasing maybe a 2k x 2k array or 4 million info cells as well as streching could get a viable map to be 4km x 4km.

OK, but I'm a bit surprised by that.

The original CMBO, eight years ago, had a maximum sized map of 5 sq Km and I wouldn't have thought that the difference in graphic quality was that much different from PCOWS, if at all. The latest CM has a 16 sq Km maximum.

Theatre of War, which has a lot (too much!) going all all over the place and whose graphic quality is higher (?) than either CM1 or PCOWS, manages a 4 sq Km map.

All of the above games are, I think, targetting much the same market, so I'm not sure why Matrix/Kois would appear to be aiming at older, slower PCs. In doing so they are greatly limiting the potential of what the PC system can achieve. Of course that assumes that they want it to achieve anything else.

[jamespcrowley]

Mobius, any chance of you adding some lend-lease vehicles for the Russians (assuming you haven't already done so!)?
 
Churchill, Valentine and Sherman tanks would certainly add a bit of spice to the Russian line-up.

[junk2drive]

There are some LL units already in the game.
 
Due to the published min requirements, there is a limit to what can be included that look good and are accurate models. Once the game is released, watch for modders to release a bunch of stuff for people with high end computers.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: James Crowley
Mobius, any chance of you adding some lend-lease vehicles for the Russians (assuming you haven't already done so!)?

Churchill, Valentine and Sherman tanks would certainly add a bit of spice to the Russian line-up.

As Junk2 said they have LL vehicles in Kharkov. There is the LL Valentine and some others. Erik, will have a list soon.

Right now I'm scaling the blue prints for the BA-6 AC to fit AutoCAD scale. That will be my next model. Since it has a T-26 turret I'll use the T-26 model (another model in Kharkov) as my source for textures. And the turret is already built. [:D]
(You gotta borrow from existing files or modeling will take twice as long.)

As to the map scale. I don't really know what the reason was. Just that many things in these games is a trade off. You add something here, you sacrifice something there.