WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario design and the game editor for WITP.

Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami

User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

ORIGINAL: mikemike
He might have - he was the inventor of the strategy of attacks from the air on the civilian population to undermine morale. Those chickens would come home to roost with a vengeance in WWII; and it must have made him very unpopular in Britain.
Hmm... I don't consider this to be a major war effort, but I... Anyway, one might have found out after WW1 that this was ineffective.
So this name can be considered, but we have better ones...
You don't need the old boats for that, there are about 50 new A-class boats for those purposes
Can you send me the specifications of the boats of which it makes sense to keep them in use? Or do you have a website were I can read this? I'm pretty sure that I one of my books, but I'm pretty busy atm and a little lazy as well [;)]
Sure the Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine used those old crocks - it was all they had left in the beginning. I know the website you got your class information from, but the boats ordered between 1906 and 1910 were at least 4 distinct classes. Using the 1909/1910 boats would be feasible, if you're prepared to pay for the reconstruction, but I don't know if it would be cost-effective - the boats were really too small for any worthwhile modern armament.
What is a worthwhile armement? 2x3 or 2x4 Torpedolauncher, 1 DP and some light AAA isn't that bad, no?
Technically feasible - but be warned - the pre-dreadnoughts are deathtraps. Remember what happened to SMS Pommern at Jutland - one torpedo hit and the ship blew up with all hands. I think there ought to be a better use for 850 crewmembers.
I know, but adding anti-torpedo bulges may be done while the rearmement. Moreover, a pre-Dread is better than nothing, no? The idea is to use them for second line duty like escorting convois or bombardement within own aircraft range - they are useless for any offensive actions anyway because of their slow speed (never more than 20-21 kn) and short range (4000-5500 nm)
One more thing:
Look how fast the "Friendship" between France and Germany was installed after 1945. It was already in 1952, when the EGKS was founded and in 1963 the Elysée Treaty was signed. In my scenario, Germany accepted peace as there's no big chance to win the war while the loss of the war isn't likely as well.

The difference is that after 1945 Germany was irrevocably, utterly and undisputably beaten and chopped up and its parts useful as buffer zones for their respective victors, while in your scenario Germany remains as an empire, even with an expanded alliance. I don't think the French would have been inclined to friendship in that case
We both are Germans, so we both learn in school and media the omnipresent "Germania culpa"
A total defeat of both sides isn't necessary. There has been a free choice for the population of Alsace-Lorraine to which country they want to belong, so no country can claim this as casus belli.
But my idea isn't a friendship between France and Germany, it is one between Germany and GB. I talk about this friendship (, the leftist government and the economic weakness) to explain why GB allows Germany such a big number of disarmed ships and a massive expansion program after 1936 which gets close to Britains own strength.
That was actually part of the problem. King Edward VII cordially loathed his nephew Wilhelm II, whom he regarded as a loudmouthed upstart. There might have been an element of jealousy in that, as Wilhelm II was his mother's favourite grandchild. Anyway, that attitude certainly influenced British foreign policy. Churchill fought against Germany to eliminate a dangerous rival to the British Empire. This was also his main motive in WWII - I'm convinced he would happily have waged war against any kind of German government, not just against Hitler. I don't believe Britain would have consented to leaving Wilhelm II on the throne - not when the very effective British propaganda had been busily painting him as a bloodthirsty, baby-killing monster.
I already thought about an abdication of Wilhelm II. and the enthronement of Wilhelm III. but I still seek a reason for that.
As the war isn't lost and Germany didn't have to beg for peace - why should he abdicate? However, this is only a side note which should be inside the description for the completed scenario. It isn't that important to find a reason for this, now, I guess.
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

The Finnish BCs will be named:
Friedrich Karl I. (von Hessen, King of Finnland until his death 5/28/40)
Wolfgang I. (von Hessen, 11/6/1896, his successor)
One of the pre-Dreads is named Suomi, but the other? "Finnland" to have the pre-Dreads named after after Finnland in both languages of the country?

To divide the fleet a little more, I give the baltic States their independance as well like after WW1, but with the planes of 1917/18, so Lithuania and the United Baltic Duchy.
This will give me more options to let old ships survive in a logic way.

Lithuania:
2 CL (Mindaugas II. - the name that Wilhelm Karl, Herzog von Urach, Graf von Württemberg should have as Lithuanian King; Karl Gero I. - his successor)
5 DDs (Mindaugas I., Gediminas, Algirdas, Kestitutis, Jagiello)
2 PG (Zemaitis, Aukstaitis)
2 PC (Kursis, Suduvis)
3 MSW (Kaunas, Vilnius, Siauliai)
2 ML (Klaipeda, Telsiai)
4 SS (Dzukas, Selis, Skalvis, Jotvingis)

Vereinigtes Baltisches Herzogtum:
2 pre-Dread in reserve, will start with 20 sys (Adolf Friedrich (zu Mecklemburg) I., Woislawa-Feodora - his daughter and heiress)
1 CA (Nikolai von Essen)
3 CL, 1 in reserve (Woldemor Reinhold von Glasenapp, Ferdinand von Wragel, Johann von Krusenstern)
8 DD (Barclay de Tolly, von Bellingshausen, A. von Benckendorff, K. von Benckendorff, Friedrich von Berg, Jürgen von Fahrensbach, Wilhelm von Glasenapp, Fabian Gottlieb von der Osten-Sacken,
6 TBs (Konstantin von Kaufmann, Alexander von Kaulbars, Georg Gustav von Rosen, Paul von Prittwitz, Friedrich Karl von Prittwitz, Carl Magnus von der Pahlen)
4 PG (Friedrichstadt, Jakobstadt, Valk, Dorpat)
4 PC (Vindau, Libau, Hapsal, Pernau)
2 ML (Otto von Kotzebue
4 MSW (Rudolf Tobias, Karl Ernst von Baer, Alexander von Oettingen, Georg Poelchau)
4 SS (Gustav Tammann, Friedrich Georg Wilhelm Stuve, Thomas Johann Seebeck, Georg Wilhelm Richmann)
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
User avatar
Monter_Trismegistos
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:58 pm
Location: Gdansk

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Monter_Trismegistos »

One note: Jagiello is in Polish. Jogila is in Lithuanian. Also note that he was primary person in constructing anti-Teutonic union of Poland and Lithuania. He defeated them at Grunwald (other name of battle: Tannenberg) in 1410.
Nec Temere Nec Timide
Bez strachu ale z rozwagą
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

Thx for the hint!
Would a German King of Lithuania allow a ship to be named after someone like him? I seems to be long enough ago...
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

I need more names...

Finnland:
I have names for the BCs and pre-Dreads
but what are adequate names for CAs, CLs, CLAAs
DDs
Subs
DEs PGs PCs

Sweden

Norway

Denmark
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker



The German experience in WW1 will shape their strategy for the next war.
Definitly, yes!
With more effective air/sea search, there is no reason to believe that the Brits would not be able to intercept the main German fleet, as it attempts to break out into the Atlantic.
Only commerce raiders in one's or two's (or disguised freighters) managed to do so.
Did they ever try to breakout into the Atlantic with major forces? I don't know any single incident. Most BBs didn't have the range for extensive Atlantic operations, especially as the French Atlantic coast didn't have German bases. So this never was a real option in WW1, no?

There is the case of Bismarck and Prinz Eugen.


el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker
Question: In your mod, what does your German high command expect to do with all those battleships and battlecruisers?

I think you said that the overall strategy was one of commerce warfare, which I assume means to avoid a fleet v fleet slugfest. If so, your ships should be optimised for sinking lightly armed shipping. This is best accomplished with a high rate of fire with the guns of the raiders, so heavy calibre guns (with a rate of fire about 1 per minute) are actually counterproductive. Maybe something 8 inch range, max, to sink freighters, destroyers, and cruisers. (I dont remember the RoF of the 11 inch gun.)
We have a solid alliance between GB, F and J - and the US are expected to enter the war in a later stage. So even before any expansion of the fleet after 1936, the German navy must face 15 GB, 10 Jap, 7 French BBs as well as 40 CAs + even more CLs.
So how long will it take until the Allies form well protected Convois?

This is a political matter: convoy has worked for a very long time - and was slow to be introduced only due to ignorance and ignorant assumptions. They worked in the era of sailing ships - and worked fast in both world wars - once introduced. But there were varioius people reluctant to implement them - and late in the War IJN concluded they were not a good idea (which was a misunderstanding of wartime data).
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker



Subs are way to ineffective in witp. When the allied player makes convois with 100 ships, you bearly have a chance even to find it. Moreover, you don't have the historical option to let a sub trace the convoi and lead other subs to it. In witp, you can't give the order "attack the detected ships wherever they are next trun" which would be a historical correct option. So subs may be a nice addition, but they aren't able to fight the fight I intend to have... - or I'm just to stupid to use them correctly...


While I agree with the opeining phrase - the statement is wrong. You have a very good chance of finding a convoy - and I do so regularly. It is said I use subs like SSNs - in this game. The trick is to know where the convoy may be? This is possible if you study the routing functions.
If you sit on the right track - think of it as a great circle route - you are almost certain to intercept a convoy. I have been able to hit a convoy or task force or cripple four times - on different days - because I can estimate where he will go - just as a good sub skpper can.

Technical aids to detection include radar and supporting subs with aircraft - on board or ashore or afloat.

The idea you cannot say "attack detected ships" is not an option is pure confusion: your subs MUST do that if set to a patrol mission.
And the chance of missing a target are very high - a sub is a poor thing to spot from (too low) - and it is too slow if the angle is wrong -
so the idea that you often do not get to engage is simply historically correct modeling. Probably subs are too effective - except this:
they are too easy to detect and sink. Also - I had to modify torpedo ranges so they don't miss so much: half of max range seems to work perfectly - and also be good simulation of effective range.
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

@Bismarck + Prinz Eugen
I talked about WW1. I don't know a single case that a German BB marched into the Atlantic from Germany in WW1. AFAIK, they all stayed in the North and East Sea.

@Convois
One can talk a lot about whether and if and but...
The case is, I make this mod for witp and for player vs player - and only for that with the intention to acchieve a maximum of fun for both sides even if that means that I have to leave the correct line of history.
In a PBEM, there won't be ANY political discussions whether one should create convois. Both players will do so - and if not, they will suffer. As I expect this, I don't intend to leave the TEA player with useless ships against well protected convois. The only way to attack a heavily guarded convoy in witp is by airpower or by even more heavy surface forces.

@Subs
I guess you talk about playing against the "AI"...
Just an example: The combat report shows, that a TF of several CAs and BBs has discovered my convoi and is just one hex away. The ships are fast and are able to rund 6/6, while my convoy only runs 2/2. Nevertheless, I have a good chance that they don't hit the convoy: I have the choice of a radius 4, where my convoy shall be the next round. I may let it march home, I may let it steer right on, I may let it march south or north - i may even let it stay where it is or only march 1 single hex...

IRL, the big ships would keep contact by ther FPs and perhaps by a sub or a PA keeping contact. With their speed 3 times higher, the convoy would have no chance to flee - but in witp?...

There needs to be the option "Attack detected ships" instead of simply "march" and "follow TF". In this case, assisted by their own FPs and PAs, the fighting at sea would be realistic - but now?
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

How much % of its ships may be kept in reserve?
Does anyone see the strength of the Kreuzer P design? For 26.000 t it's armement is quite small with just 6x28cm or 4x38cm, no? Its armour is not really impressive, too - 100mm deck and 120mm belt. Well, it has a great range 25.000nm @ 13kt - and all that fuel needs room. Also, it's deck can mout a really impressive AAA after some updates. But for that size and construction time?!
Is it possible to let more respawn than just MSW, CV and CA/CL?

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

@XP
The basic XP for all non mentiond nations and ships will be 50. 50day; 50 night.

different numbers:
German subs: 70 day; 85 night
Japanese Cruisers and DDs: 65/70mm SS 40/40, the rest 65/65
GB ships: 65/60 t
German ships: 65 both (superior optical devices from Carl Zeiss Jena shall have their impact at night)
Austria-Hungary 60/55
US 60/55, later in the war (from mid 43 or 1/44 on) 65/65
France 55/55
Scandinavian countrys: 60/55
Poland: 60/60 (Carl Zess Jena as well)
Russian: 55/50
South America: 45/45
Greece 55/55
Turkey 40/35
Persia 40/40
Iraq 35/30
Abessinia 50/45 (don't know wheter they'll get ships, but if not more than 2 or 3 gunboats and perhaps 2 DDs or so...)

Units in reserve status will recieve a deduction of 5 each, rearmed units will recieve one of 3 each, as their gun crews are fully trained.


I really don't intend to annoy or insult anyone with this numbers. I took just what I know and what I expect how the navys may have developed in my scenario. Moreover, I try to look at how good their armys and navys performed in the past, because the performance of the armed forces is always not just a result of equipment and training, but of mentality as well! If it's more important to look good in parades, if religion tells that dieing isn't just something that will lead to heavon but is the matter itself, if lives don't count... - all this has its impact.
Both Italian troops and ships haven't performed very impressive, so this leads to my conclusion.
I'm open for changes if someone can convince me that a nation should do better or worse.

Any suggestions for change?
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

@Bismarck + Prinz Eugen
I talked about WW1. I don't know a single case that a German BB marched into the Atlantic from Germany in WW1. AFAIK, they all stayed in the North and East Sea.

.

There is "the flight of the Goben" - which under a different name long seemed likely to be the last battleship anywhere in the world - she served almost forever in Turkey - and brought Turkey into WWI on Germany's side. But eventually USS New Jersey was recommissioned - then all four Iowas were recommissioned again - so Goeben didn't end up being last after all.

I am not sure what the point was - but surely there is such a case.
User avatar
DuckofTindalos
Posts: 39781
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Denmark

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by DuckofTindalos »

Well strictly speaking, the Goeben started out in the Med, so the hop to Turkey wasn't that far.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

The Goeben was already in the Mediternean, so this was no breakthrough when it marched to Turkey.
There was no breakthrough from Germany into the Atlantic by a BB in WW1 - and that was the question [;)]
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

.@Convois
One can talk a lot about whether and if and but...
The case is, I make this mod for witp and for player vs player - and only for that with the intention to acchieve a maximum of fun for both sides even if that means that I have to leave the correct line of history.
In a PBEM, there won't be ANY political discussions whether one should create convois. Both players will do so - and if not, they will suffer. As I expect this, I don't intend to leave the TEA player with useless ships against well protected convois. The only way to attack a heavily guarded convoy in witp is by airpower or by even more heavy surface forces.

.

While I do not think history needs to be a strait jacket - it is not the story of what had to happen - I am uncomfortable with pretendign a country would do what it would not have done - or worse what it could not have done.

In any case you are incorrect to think that strong convoys can go everywhere - there are far too few escorts for that - and the Allies have vast distances and many points to serve. There will be wholly unescorted ships - and marginally escorted convoys aplenty - in any reasonable game sitatution. The idea that you must engage with strong air forces or surface forces is pretty much untrue - and it misses the point of the guerre de course - in particular as concieved by Donitz: it is a MINIMAL threat to the SLOC that causes a DISPROPORTIONATE enemy cost - when he responds with air patrols - escorting - and just does not send any convoy or ship for fear of the cost. You don't achieve that with big units - but little ones.
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

..

@Subs
I guess you talk about playing against the "AI"...
.

First - most games are vs AI - so a mod designer should think about it.

Second - I am not talking about vs the AI - but against human players. Granted I spend too much time on submarine warfare - a player who takes the time to use his submarines cleverly will score very well in this game - in spite of the fact they are too vulnerable.
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How much % of its ships may be kept in reserve?
Does anyone see the strength of the Kreuzer P design? For 26.000 t it's armement is quite small with just 6x28cm or 4x38cm, no? Its armour is not really impressive, too - 100mm deck and 120mm belt. Well, it has a great range 25.000nm @ 13kt - and all that fuel needs room. Also, it's deck can mout a really impressive AAA after some updates. But for that size and construction time?!
Is it possible to let more respawn than just MSW, CV and CA/CL?



SLOTS respawn. You can respawn whatever you put in the right slots. YOUR choice.
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

ah! Which slots and into which?
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
el cid again
Posts: 16983
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:40 pm

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by el cid again »

ORIGINAL: Historiker

@XP
The basic XP for all non mentiond nations and ships will be 50. 50day; 50 night.

different numbers:
German subs: 70 day; 85 night
Japanese Cruisers and DDs: 65/70mm SS 40/40, the rest 65/65
GB ships: 65/60 t
German ships: 65 both (superior optical devices from Carl Zeiss Jena shall have their impact at night)
Austria-Hungary 60/55
US 60/55, later in the war (from mid 43 or 1/44 on) 65/65
France 55/55
Scandinavian countrys: 60/55
Poland: 60/60 (Carl Zess Jena as well)
Russian: 55/50
South America: 45/45
Greece 55/55
Turkey 40/35
Persia 40/40
Iraq 35/30
Abessinia 50/45 (don't know wheter they'll get ships, but if not more than 2 or 3 gunboats and perhaps 2 DDs or so...)

Units in reserve status will recieve a deduction of 5 each, rearmed units will recieve one of 3 each, as their gun crews are fully trained.


I really don't intend to annoy or insult anyone with this numbers. I took just what I know and what I expect how the navys may have developed in my scenario. Moreover, I try to look at how good their armys and navys performed in the past, because the performance of the armed forces is always not just a result of equipment and training, but of mentality as well! If it's more important to look good in parades, if religion tells that dieing isn't just something that will lead to heavon but is the matter itself, if lives don't count... - all this has its impact.
Both Italian troops and ships haven't performed very impressive, so this leads to my conclusion.
I'm open for changes if someone can convince me that a nation should do better or worse.

Any suggestions for change?


With one possible exception

night ratings always should be lower than day ratings

Only one navy - ever - paid the price to be good at night - and it still does. ALSO in bad weather. This navy loses lives EVERY YEAR to be good in night and bad weather. It is the navy of Japan.

Otherwise - ratings of 70 or above are probably not warranted for any navy - ever - at the start of a war. And it defeats the game mechanism of letting ships learn from combat.

Navies - and units - that get little sea time should be poorly rated. And I rate all minor vessels (e.g landing craft) as 10 - because they are not really tactial warships - do not have officers - and should not compete even with awful true warships.
User avatar
Historiker
Posts: 4742
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Deutschland

RE: WitW-HKD TEA Fleet

Post by Historiker »

New numbers

@XP
The basic XP for all non mentiond nations and ships will be 50/40. 50day; 40 night.

different numbers:
German subs: 70 day; 85 night, the Subs of German dominated nations (with German kings) 60/75. from 42 on will all new TEA subs have 60/75 as well.
Japanese Cruisers and DDs: 65/65mm SS 35/30, the rest 65/60
GB ships: 65/50
German ships: 65/55 (superior optical devices from Carl Zeiss Jena shall have their impact at night)
Austria-Hungary 60/50
US 60/50, later in the war (from mid 43 or 1/44 on) 65/55
US subs 50/40, growing until mid 43 to 65/55
France 55/45
Scandinavian countrys: 60/45
Poland: 60/53 (Carl Zess Jena as well)
Russian: 55/45
South America: 45/38
Greece 55/45
Turkey 40/30
Persia 40/32
Iraq 35/20
Abessinia 50/40 (don't know wheter they'll get ships, but if not more than 2 or 3 gunboats and perhaps 2 DDs or so...)

Units in reserve status will recieve a deduction of 5 each, rearmed units will recieve one of 3 each, as their gun crews are fully trained.


I really don't intend to annoy or insult anyone with this numbers. I took just what I know and what I expect how the navys may have developed in my scenario. Moreover, I try to look at how good their armys and navys performed in the past, because the performance of the armed forces is always not just a result of equipment and training, but of mentality as well! If it's more important to look good in parades, if religion tells that dieing isn't just something that will lead to heavon but is the matter itself, if lives don't count... - all this has its impact.
Both Italian troops and ships haven't performed very impressive, so this leads to my conclusion.
I'm open for changes if someone can convince me that a nation should do better or worse.

Any suggestions for change?
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
Post Reply

Return to “Scenario Design”