The Sun in My Eyes Mk IV, EOS from the Allied Perspective

[goodboyladdie]

Yup! On fire, heavy damage. I love USS Argonaut...[:D]

[goodboyladdie]

After the Shokaku hitting a mine everything else was a little tame!

27/12/41

The two damaged DDs trying to sneak into PH from Molokai were both sunk, but they did ensure that the ships fleeing North were free from interference. Dewey was first, taking 2 torpedo hits from I-172 just off Pearl Harbor. Later in the day 25 Bettys arrived with a Zeke escort and put 4 torpedoes into Cassin. 1 Zeke fell to my CAP. PH damage is now 29/49/46. One of my raids out of PH got lucky when an SBD put a 1000lb GP bomb into CL Tatsuta, leaving her on fire.

Off the coast of the US I-5 was attacked by an ASW task force and took 1 hit and 2 near misses.

Here is the screenie from the Hawaii area. The Palmyra force seems to be moving West now.

[goodboyladdie]

AK Proteus was torpedoed off Tasmania and will sink.

Dutch ASW vessels attacked I-17 at Balikpapan twice, but scored no hits. The Dutch subchasers attacked RO-60 off Northern Java again, but also did no damage. The Flower Class Corvettes then scored 3 near misses. For the 4th day running Mike sent a high flying bomber force to attack Kuantan. I have nothing there so the limited damage caused does not really hurt me. 37 Sallys came up against 17 P-40Es at Brunei. 3 Sallys were destroyed and 4 P-40s were damaged. The commander of 3rd PS was replaced by Col Tinker after contributing nothing to the action.

11th Pp Div was hit by 100 bombers at Manila and then a smaller raid hit the air base.

A Jap deliberate attack at Kuala Lumpur failed with only 38 Allied casualties being suffered. There are over 88000 troops and 10860 vehicles present as it has a large "supply sink" force (now Industrial Fortresses). It will take Mike a little time and a lot of supplies to kill them all, BUT the game has done one of it's annoyingly stupid things and moved 40000 tons of supplies from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur. Hopefully it will get sucked back by the HQs at Singapore before Kuala Lumpur falls.

[goodboyladdie]

Mike's CAP has disappeared at Ichang and he had very few Nates over Wuchow today. He was crowing about production in his e-mail so I reckon he is upgrading some fighter units. He lost 4 Sonias, with 5 damaged over Wuchow for 1 P-35 damaged. IL-4cs attacked shipping at Laoag, Pescadores (twice) and Hong Kong, again scoring no hits. Allied deliberate attacks at Sinyang and Nanchang were defeated. I forgot to cancel the attacks this turn...

A Chinese SB-2 unit has upgraded to the SB-2M, as in the light of Japanese stonewalling over the attack on a TK near Dutch Harbor, Stalin donated some new aircraft to the Chinese. The message coming from back channels is that the Japanese cannot confirm the presence of a submarine and that it may have been German. Stalin has ordered subs deployed to Patrol the proposed safe route North of the Aleutians to "assist the Japanese in solving the mystery". US escorts will eventually have to be made available to take over escort responsibility once Soviet merchants get close to Alaska.

Here is screenie showing the Sub that does not exist...

[ny59giants]

Looks like Dice and me will be starting a game using EEO in the near future.
Us Allied players will have to stick together. [:D] 
I don't like those supply sinks either. [:@]

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Looks like Dice and me will be starting a game using EEO in the near future.
Us Allied players will have to stick together. [:D] 
I don't like those supply sinks either. [:@]

Hi Michael

If it causes the premature loss of Singapore because I lose the supply I will seriously consider whether or not I can continue playing the mod. Neither of the units in the hex are receiving replacements so I am hopeful that the excess supply will be pulled back. Perhaps they are called supply sinks because they steal all your supplies and sink your defensive plans? Of course, if I get the supply back and it takes Mike weeks to reduce the bloody unit, they will be a marvellous innovation which I shall thank Cid for... (fickle? Moi?)

[goodboyladdie]

Quotes from the Thread about the KL supply sink issue:

quote:

[i]"ORIGINAL: el cid again

Actually - Nemo's charge is a bit misleading - Kuala Lumpur is the worst case - and most supply sinks behave properly in most respects. And KL is good enough I don't think it should be changed - although possibly I could break it up into parts.

This problem is somewhat self correcting - if the enemy isolates KL from Singapore - as usually happens - no more sucking occurs.

I think Nemo's advice is backwards - base your UNITS on KL - and USE the supplies it sucks. It will tend to damage the sink - reduce its impact - and make the units more effective. A foolish enemy can take horrible losses if KL is attacked too swiftly - with strong units present. Code shares suppliies among all units present - so the sink is treates as a unit - and it will get disabled squads if you feed other units in the hex.

It is true that all HQ should go to Singapore - or the hexes North of it - and these will attract supplies. You also can MOVE supplies from KL to Singapore by ship - assuming you know how to do that without losing ships. [/i]


Your solutions suck as much as the supply sink idea I'm afraid Sid. I have been reading the threads on these from 2005 and 2006 and am shocked to find that you still have not acknowledged the issue. How can you justify 88000 hungry non combatant mouths stealing all the Singapore Fortress supplies without orders?! As for "This problem is somewhat self correcting - if the enemy isolates KL from Singapore - as usually happens - no more sucking occurs." , the problem has already caused the premature loss of Singapore by the time this happens as all of my siege supplies have then been cut off in KL. I wonder if my opponent would be kind enough to drop a para unit behind KL for me and then give me two weeks to ship all the supply back without attacking my ships? Oh wait I forgot - we are at war! AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!"

I am so unbelievably frustrated by this. This may be the end of my love affair with RHS. I need to see what happens next, but I think this could be a game killer. My entire strategy is designed around slowing Mike down and playing for time. If Singapore falls quickly because despite the presence of all HQs it cannot hold onto supply, I am buggered. KL will last for ever afterwards, but the only purpose it will serve is as a bomber training area. If Mike does not take it in time the Jap supply sink that is due to arrive there it will turn up at Tokyo and eat all his precious supply that is supposed to be feeding his war machine and industry. Am I over-reacting? I would appreciate opinions but I swear if somebody actually agrees with Sid I am going to get banned for the use of bad language....

[Mistmatz]

I'm experiencing the same problem in my CVO game. KL keeps a huge amount of supplies for itself. As el cid mentioned KL is the extreme case, I benefit strongly from industrial fortresses in other places like Kendari where the japanese landings were weak and got bogged down by an industrial fortress.

Of course its standard procedure to delay the japanese as much as possible and players are used to have more or less full control over most aspects of the game to work on this strategic goal. Besides game mechanics, static units are something out of control and with RHS some supply is out of control as it sticks to industrial fortresses. The latter is a new experience we hadn't before and we need to adopt. But that is what war is about, adopt to the situation and make the best out of it. You cannot expect to replay a historical war as your interaction as a player changes the course of things right on day one. It's about gritting your teeth and get through it. I bet the brits didn't expect to loose Singapore so early as well. And yes it's sad you only receive Buffalos instead of Hurricanes but again, thats war. Just pretend Mr. Churchill thought you're a brilliant general who will do well without top notch equipment. I for one am looking forward to the day when the brits want a BB back and I'll send them BB Anson. [8D][:D]

As you see there are also benefits, the japanese need to bring stronger forces and this in itself will cost them time and this help with any dely strategy. Btw I dont think the japanese will use KL as training ground, they will want the resources.
In other places you may be right using units as training grounds but this is something you need to discuss with your opponent if you think its gamey.

[Nemo121]

Guys, the primary reason I FIRST made EA was that I played an RHS game in which supply sinks messed the whole thing up. I went away and learnt how to use an editor to remove the supply sinks, played the game again and was much happier with how things turned out ( obviously I had to compensate for the removal of sinks by putting supply production on-map etc but that's a minimal thing ).
 
Obviously once I made those changes I went and made some changes to A2A ( and just last week I, hopefully, fixed the borked 2-engined code so that P-38s and other twin-engined planes actually have a chance ) etc etc but the basic impetus came from wanting to get rid of supply sinks.
 
 
Mistmatz,
The Japs won't get the resources as the supply sinks tend to obliterate most of the resources when they get destroyed... and then you end up with an even more skewed game where all the Jap supply sinks show up in Tokyo and keep sucking Home Island supplies LONG after the Allies have recaptured these areas.

Supply sinks are just such a disaster... Apart from everything else they mean that Japan HAS to capture specific bases before specific dates OR the Jap supply sinks appear in the Home Islands and precipitate Japanese collapse in 1944.
 
In addition when the Allies recapture the supply sinks in 43/44 there is NO mechanism for new Allied supply sinks to be generated. All in all it is a horribly unbalanced, skewed system which leads to ahistoric outcomes BUT most of the time once Cid decides something then he sticks with it to the exclusion of all other options.

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

I'm experiencing the same problem in my CVO game. KL keeps a huge amount of supplies for itself. As el cid mentioned KL is the extreme case, I benefit strongly from industrial fortresses in other places like Kendari where the japanese landings were weak and got bogged down by an industrial fortress.

Of course its standard procedure to delay the japanese as much as possible and players are used to have more or less full control over most aspects of the game to work on this strategic goal. Besides game mechanics, static units are something out of control and with RHS some supply is out of control as it sticks to industrial fortresses. The latter is a new experience we hadn't before and we need to adopt. But that is what war is about, adopt to the situation and make the best out of it. You cannot expect to replay a historical war as your interaction as a player changes the course of things right on day one. It's about gritting your teeth and get through it. I bet the brits didn't expect to loose Singapore so early as well. And yes it's sad you only receive Buffalos instead of Hurricanes but again, thats war. Just pretend Mr. Churchill thought you're a brilliant general who will do well without top notch equipment. I for one am looking forward to the day when the brits want a BB back and I'll send them BB Anson. [8D][:D]

As you see there are also benefits, the japanese need to bring stronger forces and this in itself will cost them time and this help with any dely strategy. Btw I dont think the japanese will use KL as training ground, they will want the resources.
In other places you may be right using units as training grounds but this is something you need to discuss with your opponent if you think its gamey.

Using cut off units for training is fine. I too am looking forward to sending my fake BB back. The supply sinks should not be so hard to kill. Kendari fell in a day IRL and KL was surrendered long before Singapore. I agree with Nemo on the issue of these sinks. Most places Cid has managed to make sure they do not do too much damage but in Malaya and the DEI they mess up the Allies at KL and the Jap timetable elsewhere. Even prepping for Magadan they take too much killing. Yes you can adapt to them and say "it's a game - learn to play it", but Cid's entire reason to create RHS was to make it as accurate as possible. He has done brilliant work towards this end, but these supply sink units do not fit in with this.

[witpqs]

The supply sinks work badly. I disagree with Mistmatz in that they do not provide a useful simulation of the supply situation. You would need supply sinks in every populated place, all produced supply modeled, and as GBL pointed out some way to ensure that supply sinks functioned for both sides.

Sorry to say, GBL, the situation will not improve. It will slowly get worse. The rate at which it gets worse will decrease, but it will still worsen to a point where, for example, you cannot get replacement airplanes.

[okami]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

I'm experiencing the same problem in my CVO game. KL keeps a huge amount of supplies for itself. As el cid mentioned KL is the extreme case, I benefit strongly from industrial fortresses in other places like Kendari where the japanese landings were weak and got bogged down by an industrial fortress.

Of course its standard procedure to delay the japanese as much as possible and players are used to have more or less full control over most aspects of the game to work on this strategic goal. Besides game mechanics, static units are something out of control and with RHS some supply is out of control as it sticks to industrial fortresses. The latter is a new experience we hadn't before and we need to adopt. But that is what war is about, adopt to the situation and make the best out of it. You cannot expect to replay a historical war as your interaction as a player changes the course of things right on day one. It's about gritting your teeth and get through it. I bet the brits didn't expect to loose Singapore so early as well. And yes it's sad you only receive Buffalos instead of Hurricanes but again, thats war. Just pretend Mr. Churchill thought you're a brilliant general who will do well without top notch equipment. I for one am looking forward to the day when the brits want a BB back and I'll send them BB Anson. [8D][:D]

As you see there are also benefits, the japanese need to bring stronger forces and this in itself will cost them time and this help with any dely strategy. Btw I dont think the japanese will use KL as training ground, they will want the resources.
In other places you may be right using units as training grounds but this is something you need to discuss with your opponent if you think its gamey.

I am Mistmatz opponent and I would like to state that landing an entire 56th Division at Kendari can not be seen as weak. As for KL I attacked from the Singapore side so as to stop the flow of supplies from Singapore to KL. I did this because of this supply sink issue and to the determent of my own strategy. Who wants to take Singapore due to a game mechanic? Not I! I will still need to take KL which will slow me down, like Kendari. And then I will have to deal with a historically held and supplied Singapore. This has been my work around to this issue. My opponent did not ask for this, I gave it to him because it is the right thing to do.

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: okami

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

I'm experiencing the same problem in my CVO game. KL keeps a huge amount of supplies for itself. As el cid mentioned KL is the extreme case, I benefit strongly from industrial fortresses in other places like Kendari where the japanese landings were weak and got bogged down by an industrial fortress.

Of course its standard procedure to delay the japanese as much as possible and players are used to have more or less full control over most aspects of the game to work on this strategic goal. Besides game mechanics, static units are something out of control and with RHS some supply is out of control as it sticks to industrial fortresses. The latter is a new experience we hadn't before and we need to adopt. But that is what war is about, adopt to the situation and make the best out of it. You cannot expect to replay a historical war as your interaction as a player changes the course of things right on day one. It's about gritting your teeth and get through it. I bet the brits didn't expect to loose Singapore so early as well. And yes it's sad you only receive Buffalos instead of Hurricanes but again, thats war. Just pretend Mr. Churchill thought you're a brilliant general who will do well without top notch equipment. I for one am looking forward to the day when the brits want a BB back and I'll send them BB Anson. [8D][:D]

As you see there are also benefits, the japanese need to bring stronger forces and this in itself will cost them time and this help with any dely strategy. Btw I dont think the japanese will use KL as training ground, they will want the resources.
In other places you may be right using units as training grounds but this is something you need to discuss with your opponent if you think its gamey.

I am Mistmatz opponent and I would like to state that landing an entire 56th Division at Kendari can not be seen as weak. As for KL I attacked from the Singapore side so as to stop the flow of supplies from Singapore to KL. I did this because of this supply sink issue and to the determent of my own strategy. Who wants to take Singapore due to a game mechanic? Not I! I will still need to take KL which will slow me down, like Kendari. And then I will have to deal with a historically held and supplied Singapore. This has been my work around to this issue. My opponent did not ask for this, I gave it to him because it is the right thing to do.

That really is very kind. You are obviously the best sort of opponent. You should not have to compensate for design issues like this, so hopefully the message will get through to Sid. My opponent and I will be discussing potential problems and coming up with joint workarounds that we can both live with because we want to play this wonderful mod. I will be posting the latest in game happenings tomorrow morning...

[ny59giants]

It looks like Cid is addressing this issue. [&o]
I'm waiting before my opponent and I get past the first turn (I just sent it back to him) and now have added that Cid is working on a possible solution (or least something the doesn't make Singapore starve itself).

[goodboyladdie]

28/12/41

CL Tatsuta was attacked by a mixed group of bombers again. Once again the SBDs did the damage with 1 1000lb GP bomb hit leaving her on fire with heavy damage. In a later raid AK Aniwa Maru was hit by a 250lb bomb from a B-18 and heavily damaged. PH put up a pleasing amount of raids today, but these were the only successes.

The Soviet TK Vladivostock finally succumbed to her damage in Dutch Harbor today. Mike's Naval Search planes in the border region have not had their range cut so they regularly spot my ships in harbour. It is only a matter of time before a ship gets hit, so the next diplomatic incident is just round the corner...

PH was not attacked today. Damage is now 29/49/18. The damaged AR Rigel is attempting a run to the North.

On the West Coast an number of units were assigned to SOPAC and given orders to prepare for Pago Pago, Nandi, Suva and Noumea. There is currently no shipping available so I'll post further details when I start to deploy.

Here is the current situation around Hawaii.

[goodboyladdie]

A patrolling RAAF Hudson hit I-17 off Balikpapan. HMS Truant attempted an attack on Mutsu at Kota Bharu. There was no damage on either side. 57 Sallys attacked Brunei. 12 P-40Es were on CAP and 5 Sallys were shot down. 1 fighter was damaged and there were 2 hits on the runway. The change of leader worked and 3rd PS got in on the action, scoring 2 kills.
RO-34 was attacked twice by a Dutch ASW force at Bandjermasin. She was left heavily damaged. TK Djiral was torpedoed at Singapore by RO-33. ASW assets are on the way from Singapore and Palembang and a squadron of Blenheim Is has been diverted from the anti-shipping campaign. 7th Armoured Brigade arrived at Aden and is loading for Diamond Harbour. 15th Corp Engineers are moving from Karachi to the same destination by rail. Kuala Lumpur took a big raid from Naval Bombers, sustaining 86 casualties.

CA Houston (sys 50) left Brisbane in the company of AP Zealandia, bound for the repair yards at Long Beach. The 6 DDs that escorted her to Brisbane are moving to Sydney to undergo an ASW upgrade.

Here is the current state of Singapore after being robbed by KL...

[goodboyladdie]

There was fighting in the skies over Ichang this turn. 4 SB-2s and 2 Martin 139s were damaged and 1 Nate destroyed. Mike lost a couple of Idas to flak today as well. The Ju-88 also made it's debut. Over Wuchow my P-35/I-153c CAP destroyed 2 Sonias and damaged 9 more.

One unit making a river crossing shock attacked at Ichang. I now have 5 or 6 units in the city with another about to join. A bombardment attack has been ordered.

Here is a mouseover of Takao. The CVEs may have departed. I will keep monitoring.

[Yava]

Hmm the situation in Malaya is so to say idle or am I missing something? The whole DEI region looks so quiet...[&:]

[Dice]

Do you plan on restarting since Cid addressed the supply sink issue with 7.794?

[goodboyladdie]

ORIGINAL: Yava

Hmm the situation in Malaya is so to say idle or am I missing something? The whole DEI region looks so quiet...[&:]

Mike went for the Central Pacific full bore and after the kicking he got off Borneo last time I don't think he is going to move until he can cover the invasions with his CVEs and CVLs and any newly arrived CVs. In Malaya I am hitting his troop and supply convoys and he cannot yet concentrate a force strong enough to blast the skies over Singapore clear of my fighters due to the demands of the PI, prep for Borneo and China. He also has a lack of airframes I think, so is a little wary of big losses while he upgrades groups. He is trying to bring up enough forces and supplies to deal with KL, but I have units to the SE preventing a flanking move (if I had known KL would have eaten all my Singapore supply I would have left the way clear and told him so!).