Naval Decoys

[miller7219]

Hi. Looks like the use of naval decoys got an overhaul in the last patch...very excited about this!

The "Chaff/Flare", "Chaff", and "Flare" weapon subtypes are fully functiaonal in this recent patch? As it appears to create a decoy laucher (say the Mk36 SRBC) you would simply:

1. create a mount - MK36 SRBOC

I noticed in the current database all the field of the "Naval Decoys" are 2's except the auto which is 1 (allowing deployment for point defense resolution I assume?). is thier a reason for the 2's? Are they a code or flag of some sort?

2. Creat a weapon - Chaff/Flare

Make the type ECM, and the sub-type "chaff/flare" and assign a PH...say 15. This would reduce every missile's PH, that survives point defense gunnery, by 15%? Is that correct? Any need to assigne a range? The range field as not greyed out when you select the ECM type, so is it necessary to assigne a range for the decoy to function?

3. Assign #2 to #1 and that's it?

Naval ECM (say the Sidekick) would be done the same way, but the the sub-type would be ECM?

If one uses the "flare" ECM sub-type will it on apply to weapons with the IRH flag set, and "chaff" sub-types apply to only "weapons with the "Radar flag set, and of course "chaff/flare" suptypes would reduce PH for both IR amd Radar flags? Am I assuming this correctly and is it functioning? There's no way to see what's going on under the hood like with Harpoon II where you can have the weapon calcs go to a log for review.

Any limitation or quirky issues with simulating naval decoys/ECM?

How about acoustic countermeaures? Any functionality with any of the above to simulate this? If not are thier plans to maybe add an "accoustic" sub-type to the ECM weapon type and for the PH value to be applies to torpedo class weapons

Sorry to ramble...but the possibilities are big to the Harpoon Classic lovers with decoy usage and it's very exciting!

Please give some detail on the use of this very exciting improvement!

[Divefreak]

ORIGINAL: miller7219


3. Assign #2 to #1 and that's it?


If one uses the "flare" ECM sub-type will it on apply to weapons with the IRH flag set, and "chaff" sub-types apply to only "weapons with the "Radar flag set, and of course "chaff/flare" suptypes would reduce PH for both IR amd Radar flags? Am I assuming this correctly and is it functioning? There's no way to see what's going on under the hood like with Harpoon II where you can have the weapon calcs go to a log for review.

Any limitation or quirky issues with simulating naval decoys/ECM?

How about acoustic countermeaures? Any functionality with any of the above to simulate this? If not are thier plans to maybe add an "accoustic" sub-type to the ECM weapon type and for the PH value to be applies to torpedo class weapons

Sorry to ramble...but the possibilities are big to the Harpoon Classic lovers with decoy usage and it's very exciting!

Please give some detail on the use of this very exciting improvement!

Your´re right Decoys are build like normal weapons, except 1 thing multimounts won´t work! 1 Weapontype per mount only!

The Rangefield with a value greater than 0 turns a defensive jammer into an activ (area jammer) one.

No acoustic countermeasurements.

And Sorry, no log! Tony decided to turn it off [:(]

I prefer as much "logging" as possible, because it is the only way in HCE to see some things happen in the Game, the Result (hits/miss) of gunfire, Efects of ECM and so on...

Regards René

[TonyE]

Yup on the limitations:
 
The ECM stuff won't work in multimounts (where you have multiple weapons listed in one mount)
 
It does not yet adhere to the mount arc limitations
 
The effect of multiple ECM devices is not cumulative in any way (except to jammers with non-zero ranges), the code takes the most potent chaff/flare/jammer for the incoming weapon type and uses that.
 
Non-zero ranges:
 
These indicate a standoff jamming capability, same thing as a Growler or Prowler, working to reduce the capability of enemy radar, as well as help protect neighboring platforms.  This is in contrast to the range=0 ECM which is purely point defense for the carrying ship.
 
 
Logging:
 
That's the spirit Rene [:D].  Rene has many good ideas and I all too often tell him to go find more supporters to push me into action.  I do like to see everything logged but not immediately visible to me, that's why I have it disabled until a better logging mechanism is in place (or lots of people jump on Rene's bandwagon and 'demand' the logging, no matter how visible and obvious).
 
 

[rickier65]

Does the AI make use of these new ECM features?

Thanks,
Rick

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Rick
Does the AI make use of these new ECM features?
Thanks,Rick

Yep. [:)]

[TonyE]

The AI does use them, it doesn't have any recognition that they are there but they benefit the AI just as they do the player.
 
 

[miller7219]

Thanks for the info.

What about the weapon types effected by wich sub-type?

Does:

ECM wepaon type and Chaff/Flare sub-type effect bit IRH and Radar flagged weapons only?

ECM weapon type and Chaff sub-type effect Radar flagged weapons only?

ECM weapon type and Flare sub-type effect IRH flagged weapons only?

ECM weapon type and ECM sub-type effect Radar flagged weapons only?

[miller7219]

What support is there for the program combining the PH reduction of all ECM loaded mounts on a platform? For Example: The FFG O.H. Perry has 2nd Gen D & Jammer (Mk36 chaff/flare system + Sidekick ECM). If I add the mouts Naval Decoys 2nd Gen and Naval ECN 2 Gen (each with a 15% reduction) the prpgram is just going to reduce the PH by 15% NOT 30%. What's the opinion of the community and feasability with the code to combine to 30%?

I think a work around could be done by simply creating a mount/weapon: 2nd Gen D & Jammer, ECM weapon type + chaff/flare sub-type and assign a PH 30%, for example to get the same effect if one wanted to have the combined effect?

Opinions, guidance on the above suggested work-around?

[miller7219]

If the range is set to 1 the ECM will actively jam (reduce detection range to 25% or so of active radars within the horizon as Inderstand it), but will it also reduce the effected radars' PD by the PH of the ECM weapon?

Example: Jammer - ECM weapon with ECM sub-type has a range of 1 and a PH of 15. An active radar within horizon of the jammer has a detect range of 100nm vs a particular sized target with a 70% PD. The jammer in this example would reduce detection range down to say 25nm AND reduce PD down to 55%?

Am I understanding correct?

[TonyE]

ORIGINAL: miller7219

If the range is set to 1 the ECM will actively jam (reduce detection range to 25% or so of active radars within the horizon as Inderstand it), but will it also reduce the effected radars' PD by the PH of the ECM weapon?

Example: Jammer - ECM weapon with ECM sub-type has a range of 1 and a PH of 15. An active radar within horizon of the jammer has a detect range of 100nm vs a particular sized target with a 70% PD. The jammer in this example would reduce detection range down to say 25nm AND reduce PD down to 55%?

Am I understanding correct?

You are confusing HC with H3ANW on that 25% rules, the ECM area jamming in HCE is much more varied, depending on the strength (range) of the jammer and range of the jammed radar range may be reduced in pretty much any increment from 0% reduction to 87% (or something like that, the exact top end escapes me at present). The specifics are not documented at this time.

As stated in one of my posts above, point defense jamming is not cumulative and area jamming (range > 0) does not benefit from multiple jammers except that one jammer will try to shield another jammer so it doesn't stick out as so much of a sore thumb.

[TonyE]

ORIGINAL: miller7219
Does:

ECM wepaon type and Chaff/Flare sub-type effect bit IRH and Radar flagged weapons only?

ECM weapon type and Chaff sub-type effect Radar flagged weapons only?

ECM weapon type and Flare sub-type effect IRH flagged weapons only?

ECM weapon type and ECM sub-type effect Radar flagged weapons only?

Correct