3 Variations on 17

[ADavidB]

I've now tried scenario 17 three times now with interesting results in the very first week. I picked the Allied side, with historical setttings and sub control in my hands.

The first time the AI obviously started to get ready to go into Lunga. All I could do was move my AC TF up south of Guadelcanal and sure enough, it zoomed in "for the kill" after the Japanese carriers. Surprisingly, I got the first attack and actually flamed two of the three carriers. But I couldn't stop the counterattacks and both of my carriers were underwater before you could blink.

So I tried again, this time determined not to put my carriers into "harms way" right off the bat. First off I disbanded my existing TFs and rebuilt them. If there is anything that Pacwar taught me over the years it is that Allied flak is useless before 1943, so there is no point in putting cruisers in with carriers early in the war. Instead I just added 4 destroyers to the 2 carriers and put the rest of the ships into a surface TF. I then sent both of them into the middle of the map, far enough south to avoid Japanese reactions but positioned well to react anywhere.

Sure enough, this time the AI went after G-G. Surprisingly, the air attacks on Port Moresby weren't too good. I was also very pleasently surprised at the F-5/P-38 photo recon planes - they do a very nice job of scouting out bases. I sent the Aussie surface fleet up towards Port Moresby and had the US fleets go towards G-G. The surface fleet seemed surprisingly slow in comparison with the AC TF.

So I sent my AC TF off to a point south of G-G, as well had the Aussie surface fleet on its way to PM divert to G-G. The first surface battle was bloody, but several Japanese ships were sunk. I was surprised by the number of "critical" hits on both sides, but as smaller caliber weapons came to play, "regular" hits also occured.

But once again I hadn't "set" things quite right. I had the surface fleet on "remain" instead of "withdraw", so sure enough, come daylight, the Japanese LBA and CBA creamed the Aussie fleet. Then to my surprise I saw that my ACTF was NORTH of New Guinea and BETWEEN the Japanese ACTF and the LBA! Once again, my fleet got off the first strike. But this time it only got one minor hit. I needn't say what happened to my ships. The most surprising part of this campaign day, however, was the number of sorties that my LBA carried out from both PM and Australia.

Fortunately, I was saving, so I went back to the previous save, and changed the settings on the surface fleet ( to "retire" ) and for the ACTF ( "don't react" ). The night surface battle was quite similar, but fortunately, my TF got away in the night. But neither my ACTF nor the PM air could get off any attacks this time because the weather was bad. But the Japanese air could and attacked PM, with marginal results.

The next day, my ACTF still couldn't find any Japanese ships, and started to go home. But the previous evening my US cruiser TF arrived at G-G and creamed a big transport TF nicely, once again getting away clean in the dark. Once more LBA from Australia did a number on Japanese transports too, despite the PM boys getting another holiday.

As a bonus near the end of the turn, one of my subs put two torps into one of the Japanese carriers - it will be going back to port for quite a while I suspect.

So, all-in-all, a promising feel to the game. I'm even starting to get a handle on moving "resources" around. One thing that is obvious though, with such limited resources during the first few weeks of the campaign game, the Allied player ought to hold back as much as possible.

Dave B

[mogami]

Hi, As the Allies in Scenario 17 I have found it wise to keep the carriers away from any chance of a carrier battle intill after the fighter groups are reinforced. If the carriers stay in a port their fighter groups grow to 36 planes each. Only if the Japanese make a serious threat to PM will I commit my carriers. (Lunga is not worth risking anything for early-Gili I am experimenting with protecting with 1 Bde and engineer (to build airbase for airsupply/transport) The carriers will position themselves to attack transports before the fighter groups are built but I withdraw if IJN CV's appear-they usally stay over by Lae. Once they get the double fighter stregth I feel a little better about carrier battles.

[ADavidB]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, As the Allies in Scenario 17 I have found it wise to keep the carriers away from any chance of a carrier battle intill after the fighter groups are reinforced. If the carriers stay in a port their fighter groups grow to 36 planes each. Only if the Japanese make a serious threat to PM will I commit my carriers. (Lunga is not worth risking anything for early-Gili I am experimenting with protecting with 1 Bde and engineer (to build airbase for airsupply/transport) The carriers will position themselves to attack transports before the fighter groups are built but I withdraw if IJN CV's appear-they usally stay over by Lae. Once they get the double fighter stregth I feel a little better about carrier battles.

Ahah - I thought that the US carrier air fighter strength seemed light. Thanks for the tip.

In my starts the AI was into G-G so fast ( less than a week ) that I don't think I could have gotten any troops into ahead of it. I would have needed the old Pacwar "teleport" command to get troop ships where I wanted them.

BTW - in my 2nd and 3rd games the Japanese carriers went past Buna into that straight near the Eastern end of New Guinea. That's where I nailed the carrier with a sub.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Dave B

[mogami]

Hi, To defend Gili use the PBY's to move LCU (engineer to build airbase then C-47's can also help and supply) I move all the PBY to bases that are providing Land Unit. One C-47 group in Brisbane transports to Townsville. Groups in Townsville can reach Gilli Make a transport TF with just the 18 knot AP's and move a Bde to Gili while a surface TF stands off a few hexes in case Jap transports show up. So far my Bde has gotten to Gili a few days before the Japs show. I have 7k troops vrs 9k Jap and they seem to hold ok. When the 3rd Aussie div shows up in June or July you can kick the Japs out for good.

[ADavidB]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, To defend Gili use the PBY's to move LCU (engineer to build airbase then C-47's can also help and supply) I move all the PBY to bases that are providing Land Unit. One C-47 group in Brisbane transports to Townsville. Groups in Townsville can reach Gilli Make a transport TF with just the 18 knot AP's and move a Bde to Gili while a surface TF stands off a few hexes in case Jap transports show up. So far my Bde has gotten to Gili a few days before the Japs show. I have 7k troops vrs 9k Jap and they seem to hold ok. When the 3rd Aussie div shows up in June or July you can kick the Japs out for good.

Wow - I hadn't realized that you could transport troops in PBYs - neat approach! So what you do is a "race against time" to get your troops there first. I'll have to try this approach- thanks.

Dave B

[mogami]

Hi, The Japs can use their float planes also. Float planes don't need an airbase at the target base to move troops/supply. I move the engineer first (with supply ) to build a level 1 airbase. Then the transport aircraft can also help move troops and supply
The C-47's can move alot of troops in just a few days. (I have not noticed any Japanese transport planes yet but I'm sure if there were any I'll get them after a bit in the games I'm playing Japan.)

[dgaad]

Dammit you guys are discovering and giving away my secrets.

[Ron Saueracker]

Just hold Buna. Gili Gili seems like a huge cancer for Japs in my game I started yesterday. It's gonna be hell for them to supply it properly with the weight of LBA at PM.

[neuromancer]

In my game, it has been a meat grinder.

It was being used as a portal by the Japs to run the Tokyo Express to Port Mosbey, and those bombardments were just killing the airbase. So I decided that i couldn't let them keep it. They'll probably try to TE GG too, but that is less important.

So after the Japs captured it - again very quick off the start - I started pouring troops in. I think the battle for the base went on for a couple months. I was pouring troops in, the computer was pouring troops in. Bombers and fighters were after it from both sides. AP TFs were constantly showing up, and getting hammered by bombers from both sides. Both sides had carriers (for me it was Saratoga, then Wasp joined, and then later Enterprise) hanging back supporting their effort, not close enough to engage each other (at least not after I beat up their CVL and shot up a lot of their planes) Wasp and Saratoga have taken some damage, but are still operational.

And of course the Tokyo Express has been operating in the area. There has been something like three major surface engagements. It's hard to say who has taken the worst of it. While I have lost 2 or 3 CAs, and a lot of ships have had to be sent back to Pearl, the computer has lost some CAs and CLs, along with a lot of DDs, and everything from Destroyers to Battleships have been hurt. Not to mention the battle group that turned up ONE HEX from my carrier group (between Australia and NG), and get hammered by the carrier AGs.

Yamoto is just too lucky though, I never seem to hit her. Everyone around her gets a good beating, but not the Yamoto.

Finally after all was said and done, the Japenese had about 18,000 troops on GG, and I had about 12,000, then I landed 3 regiments of marines with armoured support, bringing my troop total to 25K, and that was it! One solid Shock Attack, and the Jpanese defense just folded (seems odd to go from a couple hundred casualties one day to total destruction of the regiments the next).

In the meantime though, thousands of troops had died on the island (from each side), and God (or the computer) only knows how many went down with their transports. At least two complete infantry units had ceased to exist in the early part of the campaign (I had grossly under-estimated the Japanese commitment to the battle, so it became a war of escalation, and attrition). Close to a score of transports had gone down along with their escorts, again from each side. Dozens of aircraft destroyed, and many more ships so badly damaged that they had to retire from the theater!

And I haven't even set up for Operation Watchtower yet (the troops that should have been for that went to secure GG in Operation Get Lost).

An epic campaign, and it is only the beginning!

I started this scenario on Saturday, and despite work in the morning on Monday and today, have stayed up until 2:30 all three nights for 'just one more turn'!

Last night the CTD (right after a turn start, so no tears, the autosave had it) was the declaration of "Go To Bed!"



Great game.




One question though.

Why do the commanders insist on going down with heir ships? A lone cruiser limping back to port gives up only 40 or 50 miles out, and the captain never made it to a life boat! It wasn't like he didn't have warning!