Damage and refit questions

[ny59giants]

The only control we have is to change large AKs to various repair type ships like the previous screen shot indicates. However, I beleive that some freedom of having DDs upgrade to APD, DM. etc will be possible in AE. [&o]
 
Like Feinder, I divide my WC bases to various task. Most of my AKs returning from supply runs go through Portland to get their system damage down before going back to San Fran (TK's to San Diego). Over flow to LA. I like to have 4 ARs in San Fran and 3 ARs in Seattle and LA to help speed up the process along with a few AD's and AS's around to help, as needed. Long term repair of damaged AK/AP/TK go to Canada (Victoria and Vancouver)and left to slowly get their sys damage down.

[John Lansford]

Wouldn't it be more efficient to just leave the AK's in a TF, dock them at the larger WC ports, and let the generic port repair function work on them?  The Canadian ports and Portland aren't as large and they don't have shipyard repair facilities either.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Wouldn't it be more efficient to just leave the AK's in a TF, dock them at the larger WC ports, and let the generic port repair function work on them?  The Canadian ports and Portland aren't as large and they don't have shipyard repair facilities either.

if they are only docked, sys damage will only be repaired to 5 and it seems it is repaired much slower. My AKs normally arrive back in port with 5 sys max and in a major port on the West Coast they are in no time at 0 again. Normally I have 4 ARs in all major ports on the West Coast so the repair of merchants isn´t a problem. Just don´t put them all in one port. And I try not to have them at ports where I repair my warships.

[John Lansford]

Ok, now I'm confused.  If a port has no shipyard, then the --only-- repair that can take place is the generic port repair, and that the Sys damage cannot be reduced below 5 as long as the ships remain in a TF and docked.  IOW, they have to be disbanded and in a large port to get below Sys 5.
 
The manual lies.  If you look at the start of this thread, I was ranting about how suddenly nearly every AK and all the SC's in San Francisco got upgraded, and every last one of them got Sys damage of 11+.  That was over a dozen SC's and who knows how many AK's. 
 
My solution to this was to put the SC's in an ASW TF and then dock them at San Francisco and Los Angeles (they all refitted there too), and just leave them to rot at anchor (I wasn't using them at all; they're the short range SC's).  I figured that eventually they would repair down to 5 but since they weren't using shipyard points to repair I didn't care.
 
Ok, I made that post Saturday morning; since then it's been maybe 10 days of game time, and all the SC's have repaired down to around Sys 5, but here's the kicker.  About half of them have repaired BELOW SYS 5 even though they have remained in a TF and docked at San Francisco and Los Angeles.  The same thing has happened to a lesser extent with all the refitted AK's;  I put them in a TF as well and docked, and several of them have repaired below Sys 5 as well.
 
Now, I've got AR's in both ports, but the "no repair below Sys 5" rule in the manual was supposed to be a hard and fast stop, yet the SC's repaired very, very quickly and many of them are now below Sys 5 just by remaining docked at SF and LA!

[crsutton]

Your situation is not too bad. Just pack all the lesser ships in the port with the Sara to another major shipyard port. (LA is fine). It only takes them a day or three to get there. You can still leave some ships in the yard with Sara as San Franciso is a big big yard and can handle a lot of ships.
 
If you have ARs on the west coast send them all to San Francisco as well as a fleet HQ. Sara, and any other big ships there will then repair fast enough.
 
The lesser ships, no matter how many, will repair in the other ports fast enough. I have has over 20 subs and DDs in Sidney refit at once and there seemed to be little or no delay in the repair rate for them. Same with Pearl. All my subs go to Pearl for repairs and there seems to be no problem no matter the number of of subs in port. I leave San Francisco for capital ships. The Allies really do not have to worry much about shipyard capacity, they usually have repair points to burn.
 
Don't fret the massive upgrades. Usually on lesser ships it means AA upgrades and that is never a bad thing. Even PT boats start to get some serious AA when upgraded.
 
 

[John Lansford]

Well right now Sara and Maryland are the only two heavily damaged ships in San Francisco; I stripped all the other battle damaged ships out and sent them to other ports.  However, there are still some lightly damaged (refitted) ships such as the AR's and AD's that have minor SYS damage, and it appears they are getting preferential treatment over the two capital ships.  Saratoga showed up with 31 SYS damage and she's not had one point removed after a week, and Maryland has shown little improvement either (SYS 24).  It appears that the port is working on the minor small ship damage (why does the AR need an SC radar anyway??) and ignoring the more extensive work over there on the two big ships.
 
Doesn't explain how the docked SC's can reduce below SYS 5 though; when I get home I'll put up a screenshot of the huge ASW TF I put them in with their current SYS damage.  They all had SYS damage of 11 or higher and now several are below 5, which was supposed to be impossible while in a docked TF.

[bradfordkay]

"Ok, now I'm confused. If a port has no shipyard, then the --only-- repair that can take place is the generic port repair, and that the Sys damage cannot be reduced below 5 as long as the ships remain in a TF and docked. IOW, they have to be disbanded and in a large port to get below Sys 5."

I do not believe that this is true. I know in my PBEM I had a TF docked in Pearl Harbor which included the North Carolina with one sys damage point. Sometime later, she had no system damage. Now this could be from her own damage parties, and not from the port's repair ability - but ships docked in TF will certainly repair damage below five sys damage points.

[John Lansford]

The manual says clearly otherwise, though:
 
"ships in a docked TF can never repair system damage below 5.  A ship has to be individually (i.e. apart from a TF) docked at a base in order to repair its system damage down below 5."
 
ISTM that it is possible to get the shipyard to reduce system damage down to, say, 10 or less, then put the ship in a TF and dock them at a large base to get the rest of the damage removed.  The presence of an HQ and repair ships helps to speed up this process as well.  However, that is NOT what the manual says how it ought to work, but I've got about 4 dozen different ships that say otherwise.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The manual says clearly otherwise, though:

"ships in a docked TF can never repair system damage below 5.  A ship has to be individually (i.e. apart from a TF) docked at a base in order to repair its system damage down below 5."

ISTM that it is possible to get the shipyard to reduce system damage down to, say, 10 or less, then put the ship in a TF and dock them at a large base to get the rest of the damage removed.  The presence of an HQ and repair ships helps to speed up this process as well.  However, that is NOT what the manual says how it ought to work, but I've got about 4 dozen different ships that say otherwise.

I've had ships in a TF docked in Tokyo reduce all their damage to 0. Granted, there's a shipyard there, but those ships never disbanded.

[Dino]

It appears that the port is working on the minor small ship damage (why does the AR need an SC radar anyway??) and ignoring the more extensive work over there on the two big ships.

Ship durability affects the die-roll, i.e. smaller ships have better chance to pass and will get repaired more often...They will also suck up the repair yard points (regardless of whether they are disbanded or not), so I would suggest moving your smaller and/or less important ships to a big port with NO repair yards (e.g. Vancouver) and disbanding them there. That way you preserve your repair yards for your capital ships.

[Dino]

I've had ships in a TF docked in Tokyo reduce all their damage to 0. Granted, there's a shipyard there, but those ships never disbanded.

Right...the 5 SYS rule only applies to ships docked at port WITHOUT repair yards.

When repair facilities are present, they will work on a docked ship down to 0 SYS.

[John Lansford]

So in other words, the shipyard repair ability works on ships both disbanded AND docked at the port?  For example, if I've got AK's docked in port loading to go somewhere else, the shipyard may decide to repair some minor SYS damage on one of them rather than one of the ships disbanded?  The manual isn't clear on that, but then, that's hardly surprising either.
 
That can't be what's happening, though, because I've seen ships get repaired while my transport TF's load supplies and include damaged AK's.  If the TF has some other mission (loading or unloading), perhaps the shipyard doesn't consider them candidates for repair?

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

So in other words, the shipyard repair ability works on ships both disbanded AND docked at the port? For example, if I've got AK's docked in port loading to go somewhere else, the shipyard may decide to repair some minor SYS damage on one of them rather than one of the ships disbanded? The manual isn't clear on that, but then, that's hardly surprising either.

Yes.

That can't be what's happening, though, because I've seen ships get repaired while my transport TF's load supplies and include damaged AK's. If the TF has some other mission (loading or unloading), perhaps the shipyard doesn't consider them candidates for repair?

But that IS what is happening...The yards will work on ALL ships in its reach (both docked and disbanded), as long as the ship passes the die-roll and there is enough repair points left.

Also note that some ships might get repaired by PORT and not by repair yards.

[John Lansford]

Then in a busy port such as SF or PH, I can't see where a large warship with major damage would ever get repaired; so many merchant ships with little bits of SYS damage would be showing up every turn that they'd be the ones most likely to get selected for shipyard repair (since their durability is much lower), eating up the points needed to fix the bigger ships.
 
ISTM that the only way to get a major ship repaired is to completely isolate the port from ALL shipping, both docked, loading/unloading and disbanded, so the shipyard and port can concentrate on repairing it.  Otherwise, the shipyard especially will waste points fixing the merchants that show up to load supplies or troops.
 
This really stinks, but it explains why major ships take FOREVER to get repaired at SF or Pearl Harbor.

[USSAmerica]

I am pretty sure that shipyard repair points are only expended on repairs to ships that are disbanded in the port.  Having a shipyard at the base may also allow "docked" TF ships to repair below sys 5, but this will not cost shipyard repair points.  Keep smaller damaged ships in TF's and the large boys will get the full attention of the shipyards.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: USS America

I am pretty sure that shipyard repair points are only expended on repairs to ships that are disbanded in the port. Having a shipyard at the base may also allow "docked" TF ships to repair below sys 5, but this will not cost shipyard repair points. Keep smaller damaged ships in TF's and the large boys will get the full attention of the shipyards.

I must say that, seeing repair yards being used to repair docked ships, I assumed that repair points were expended, too.

This calls for a change in strategy...[&o]

[John Lansford]

The only way to test this is to park a set of smaller ships in a TF, docked, at a port with a shipyard, and one ship disbanded with SYS damage.  Then we should be able to see if damage is being repaired by the shipyard to the docked ships or if those points are being applied to the disbanded one.

[Mark VII]

I have seen ships still in a TF, docked in a port with repair yards getting damage repaired and taking repair points. If I don't want certain ships to draw repair points I put them in a TF that stays "at sea" in the port hex till they need to go on their next mission. I have never seen them gain more sys damage while waiting in this manner.

[John Lansford]

Why am I not surprised (undocked ships not gaining SYS damage)? If that is so it's yet another example of the game performing 180 degrees from what the manual says.

I checked on SF after each turn last night; right now only Maryland (SYS 14 damage) and Saratoga (SYS 31 damage) are disbanded in the port; every other ship has 0 SYS damage.

Meanwhile there are over a dozen SC's with 0-7 SYS damage docked at SF. Over the space of 3-4 turns those SC's reduced their overall SYS damage to 0-3, while Maryland and Saratoga eliminated one SYS point damage between them, and yes, repair points were being used every turn.

I'm fairly convinced that docked TF's will use shipyard repair points, and will reduce their SYS damage below 5 (either through port repair or shipyard repair). The shipyard repair routine appears to be choosing ships from both the docked and disbanded pool of damaged ships, so if you want capital ships definitely repaired you basically have to send them to a port where no transport/cargo convoys stop for supplies or LCU's. That rules out the Allies' best port, San Francisco for repair purposes...

[USSAmerica]

Thanks for the correction, Mark and John.  I'll have to shuffle my ships around on the West Coast.  It's a busy time over there in January, '42.  [8|]