Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

The highly anticipated second release in the Panzer Command series, featuring an updated engine and many major feature improvements. 3D Tactical turn-based WWII combat on the Eastern Front, with historical scenarios and campaigns as well as support for random generated battles and campaigns from 1941-1944.
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39655
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: Capitaine
This is a really solid product and everything worked without a hitch from a technical standpoint, from purchase to download to installation. To me it seems to be one of the more impressive Matrix products I've purchased in some time. Looking forward to the continuation of this series. Great job to all involved.

Thank you, Capitaine! That was some excellent feedback indeed and we'll fix the Boot Camp typo. [8D]

Regarding the order delay, our research suggested that German units were on average more quickly adaptable at the tactical platoon scale than Soviet units as far as initiative goes. On top of that you have the radios as you noted. I agree that the delay for infantry should perhaps be a bit less than for armor, but it seemed better to keep it consistent as far as allowing players to easily remember how it works.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
sabre100
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 10:54 pm

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by sabre100 »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Thanks, sabre100 - and I know this is a nit-pick, but it was actually $15 off which works out to more than 37% off! [8D]


Sorry Erik that was a typo I meant $15 dollars off and not 15% [:)] My fault on that.
User avatar
Trigger Happy
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:48 am

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Trigger Happy »

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

But PZK attracted me because - (c) the terrain is NOT artificially concentrated like board games (Panzerblitz, ASL, etc.) and some computer games but is actual, historic and in-scale;

----------------------

The presentation of the game is well done and very professional. It seems to exude quality. I find that the graphic style is very accurate and gives the impression of a first-class game. The maps convey the actual lay of the land and make me feel like it's really Russia from the photos and movies I've seen, not an amateur model train set crammed full of contrasting terrain. And weighing in on another debated point, I like the "coins" used to ID units. They work very well for me and don't interfere with the art of the unit itself. (VERY well done bases could work for me, but honestly I haven't seen a fully 3-D game yet that has done that effectively.)
Very, very glad you like the maps!

As someone who worked on them, I tried real hard to make maps as faithful to the real terrain as possible and in 1x1 km, the temptation was strong to cram more into them (It's still possible to edit everything on the maps except the terrain relief and still cram more into them). Basically, historical and modern topo maps and pictures of various places in the area were used as well as Google Earth, which is quite useful for such a task. Also, reading works on the subject, it was a matter of locating where this or that action took place and trying to portray the terrain in the best way possible.

Actually, I was worried about reactions about the more 1:1 representation and general openness of the maps. But two critical features allowed for more open terrain and generally more representative terrain: smoke and entrenchments. Also, you have maps where the terrain is rolling or hilly, so you can use that for cover.

Anyway, it's just that I played games where the objectives of historical scenarios were "take village" (or take hill) and the village was represented by 10 closely spaced houses and a church at the center you had to capture, but when you looked at a real map, the same village was suppposed to have something like 20,000 inhabitants... then I always feel like something's wrong. I understand why it's done, but I think there is a way to make the maps playable but still keep close to the real lay of the land, particularly in historical scenarios. So that's what we tried to do with Kharkov (and hope we succeeded!)

Still, I can't wait for the moment bigger maps will be possible! It will truly shine!
I prefer the probability-based combat computations of PCK to a supposedly "accurate ballistics" method. I feel it games better and is just as realistic, if not more, as trying to model ballistics in a computer model. I don't feel all the factors of real life combat on ballistics can be accounted for. So I'm very pleased in this respect too.
Yeah, I also think it's easier to get it right in the way PCK does it. Way better also for making right what people felt was wrong. I think this is one of PCK strong points: almost everything can be changed, streamlined, perfected, etc. by the community.
I'd like to commend Koios for embracing historical maps and actions as the basis for their game. I'd like to see more such maps in the future and, especially, the larger ones that've been promised.
Me too, me too!!! [:)]
User avatar
Hertston
Posts: 3317
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:45 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

I prefer the probability-based combat computations of PCK to a supposedly "accurate ballistics" method. I feel it games better and is just as realistic, if not more, as trying to model ballistics in a computer model. I don't feel all the factors of real life combat on ballistics can be accounted for. So I'm very pleased in this respect too.

I wouldn't say I prefer it as such, but I have always been very skeptical that any benefits of modelling 'real world' ballistics, armour penetration etc. really justified the programming time and processing power in terms of producing historical results that can't be obtained from a tables/probability approach. As you say, a model is only a model and real-life always includes a great many small (and occasionally large) factors that get missed. The alternative takes care of everything, albeit in a more abstract way.

Capitaine
Posts: 1028
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:00 am

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Capitaine »

@Trigger Happy: Oh, believe me you have done something I've wanted to see in a tactical game all my life.  I hope you all keep the same map philosophy for games down the road because even on a 1km X 1km map I get the impression of a large real world, as I described in my post.
 
@Hertston: That is exactly what I'm talking about.  An actual ballistic model has some intellectual appeal, but when it gets down to combat I have difficulty seeing how all that work can justify any difference from a statistical approach.  Especially when the latter is based on actual stats that abstractly account for all combat and ballistic factors and the ballistic model can't possibly do that (unless it imports probabilities itself in which case how is it so different from a statistical table anyway, then?).
User avatar
old man of the sea
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: Waynesboro, PA
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by old man of the sea »

ORIGINAL: Capitaine
An actual ballistic model has some intellectual appeal, but when it gets down to combat I have difficulty seeing how all that work can justify any difference from a statistical approach.  Especially when the latter is based on actual stats that abstractly account for all combat and ballistic factors and the ballistic model can't possibly do that (unless it imports probabilities itself in which case how is it so different from a statistical table anyway, then?).

Uhhh, yeah, that's what I've been saying for years. IMHO you are correct, there is no real difference.

E
"Point me to a 'civilised' part of the General Forum and I'll steer way clear of it." - Soddball

Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.
User avatar
Titanwarrior89
Posts: 3282
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:07 pm
Location: arkansas
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Titanwarrior89 »

On a scale of 1 (worst) to 10 (excellent).

1.  Sound - 7.5 ( Needs work in some areas.  But not bad-seems the sound does not match weapons sometimes).
2.  Graphics - 8.5  (Explosions need work-but again not bad).
3.  Camera - 8.0 (Hard to work with sometimes)(but no major problem).
4.   Scenarios - 9.0 (Played two- one was a random-they did give me the feel of Eastern front combat).
5.  Movement - 9.5 (From what I could see, the path finding was very good-but long term will tell).
10. Overall Product-Is it worth the price - 10.0  (Yes, very much so).


These are my opinions alone, as a long time gamer.  Order this baby and buy it.  Its worth the time and money you'll put into it.  The Eastern Front is calling!![;)]
"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"
User avatar
Grotius
Posts: 5842
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:34 pm
Location: The Imperial Palace.

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Grotius »

I've just done the tutorial (twice, on easy and normal), and the first boot camp mission twice (getting better but still haven't won it yet). I'm pretty impressed so far! I'm an ASL vet, and this has some of the same "feel" as ASL. Somehow I prefer the feel of this to CM, in fact, although it might just be that I haven't played CM in ages and don't remember it as well.

My one quibble so far is that one hears the same voice files over and over. I love hearing the German and Russian phrases, but not endlessly repeated. :) OK, my second quibble would be a lack of destructible things, but Erik says that's coming later, and in any case it would just be icing on an already tasty cake.

Big thumb's-up so far. :)
Image
User avatar
Stridor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:01 am

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Stridor »

Grotius,

There is a sound mod in the mods section of this forum that turns german and russian voices off if you like.
User avatar
JMass
Posts: 2363
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:45 pm
Location: Italy

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by JMass »


I purchased PC:K + PC:OWS, my compliments for your excellent job, a great improvement over the original PC:OWS I tried as demo! I prefer the lesser micro management of PC and I think it is the time for put at rest my CMBB and CMAK.
[:)]
"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern!"Generaloberst Heinz Wilhelm Guderian

My boardgames collection: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection ... dgame&ff=1
Hanal
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:08 am

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Hanal »

Just want to say that I really was not interested in purchasing this game, but upon reading this and other threads, I decided to take the plunge.....
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39655
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Erik Rutins »

Glad to hear it, JP - let us know how you like it.
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
Grotius
Posts: 5842
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:34 pm
Location: The Imperial Palace.

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Grotius »

Stridor, I'm glad to hear about that mod to turn off voices. I'll play with it vanilla for a while to see if it continues to annoy me. Obviously not a major issue.
Image
User avatar
Sgt.Fury25
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:13 pm

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Sgt.Fury25 »

Erik and Co. well done![:D] Thanks.[&o]
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39655
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Erik Rutins »

<bumpity-bump for new customers>
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
Biffa
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:49 pm
Location: Wiltshire
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Biffa »

My first impressions are 'brilliant', I'll be playing this for a looonnng time, thanks! Really is first impressions since I've only played one game so far after downloading it last night, the battle finished at 3am! Digital download was smooth.
&nbsp;
There is ofc a couple of 'buts' mostly already covered (bigger battlefields, buildings etc) by other players but one that to me&nbsp;is quite serious:
&nbsp;
Doing the first campaign as the Panzer commander fighting mainly Russian AT/Infantry. I was using an infantry screen since most of my tanks were buttoned up. I'm a lazy commander so I don't micro manage the units as much as I should. Anyway everything looked fine both flanks had plenty of infantry pushed out front to spot any ambushes. I kind of unfocused on one flank for about two turns went back to check on them when one of my tanks were knocked out and noticed ALL of the infantry were dead! [:(]
&nbsp;
What I didn't realise is that when I checked on them last 'visually' they were fine i.e. two squads 6 figures standing but what I hadn't known is that both of these units had already taken a lot of damage and should have been held back due to their condition. With dozens of units and making fast tactical decisions it needs to be made more obvious just how damaged a squad or even a vehicle is. Need 3-2-1 or whatever figure stands or a stronger number graphic it seems.
&nbsp;
As I said I'm a Panzer series&nbsp;noob so maybe I've missed something maybe it's&nbsp;in options but that flank and the remaining tanks were decimated.
&nbsp;
My first impressions here now sound negative but it is only&nbsp;ONE big issue that I can see and it could ofc be my own fault for not taking time to check each unit, as I said at the start the game is brilliant and you guys have done an awesome job and this was just my first game so I'm sure next time I'll be more careful.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39655
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: SAF_Biffa
My first impressions are 'brilliant', I'll be playing this for a looonnng time, thanks! Really is first impressions since I've only played one game so far after downloading it last night, the battle finished at 3am! Digital download was smooth.

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying it.
had plenty of infantry pushed out front to spot any ambushes. I kind of unfocused on one flank for about two turns went back to check on them when one of my tanks were knocked out and noticed ALL of the infantry were dead! [:(]

Keep an eye on the event messages and watch your icons to see when they light up (that means your units are under fire). You can click on the event messages to "jump to" the event and you can double click on a unit icon in the HUD to jump to that unit.
What I didn't realise is that when I checked on them last 'visually' they were fine i.e. two squads 6 figures standing but what I hadn't known is that both of these units had already taken a lot of damage and should have been held back due to their condition. With dozens of units and making fast tactical decisions it needs to be made more obvious just how damaged a squad or even a vehicle is. Need 3-2-1 or whatever figure stands or a stronger number graphic it seems.

I agree, we just didn't have time to do this in this release. The casualty icons when you select a unit will tell you what their status is, but what we'd like to do is not only have the visual effect of casualties in terms of fewer animated figures, but also have more detailed HUD icons for tanks and infantry that show damage/casualties.
As I said I'm a Panzer series noob so maybe I've missed something maybe it's in options but that flank and the remaining tanks were decimated.

One thing you may have missed is to turn "Verbose Messages" ON in the game options, this can give you more information as the turn unfolds. Limit Infantry OFF also gives you five men per squad which helps with spotting them, but it does not display casualties.
as I said at the start the game is brilliant and you guys have done an awesome job and this was just my first game so I'm sure next time I'll be more careful.

Thanks again, all feedback is appreciated.




[/quote]
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
Grell
Posts: 1064
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Grell »

You see Erik, I knew people would love it. Hehe!

Ravinhood can kiss my rear end.

Regards,

Greg
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39655
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by Erik Rutins »

Grell,

I thought we had a good game here, I'm glad to see that many others agree.
ORIGINAL: Grell
Ravinhood can kiss my rear end.

Please refrain from that - it's past history now and we don't like to see any kind of personal attacks, no matter how richly deserved.

Regards,

- Erik
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
marcusm
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:42 pm
Location: Göteborg/Sweden

RE: Panzer Command: Kharkov Impressions

Post by marcusm »

Yes. Comment on my module ideas instead ;).
Deus Vult.
Post Reply

Return to “Panzer Command: Kharkov”