early war use of PP for allies

[gladiatt]

What are the best use of Political Points, on the allies point of view, at the beginning of the war ? [&:]
Changing leaders is not very expensive, but changing HQ of troops is a bit more expensive.
My opinion would be to first "reorganize" troops, so as to move part of them (say, dutch garrison, to concentrate them on a few places); it leave few points for leader change.
As the allies must keep prudent, and their forces are weak comparing to japs planes and ships, it seems the change of leader can wait a bit.
What are the opinions about this ?

[Mistmatz]

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

Does it mean you don't try to evacuate some dutch garrison ?
I've begin playing my first game ever on Witp...i'm trying to concentrate Dutch garrison on fiew points...as bettys are a hell threat, i evacuate most of Borneo. It sound stupid to you ?
And for Malayan garrison....[:(] so much had sink on their way for india, always because of bettys (theses buffalos are really stinking) .

[Mistmatz]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

Does it mean you don't try to evacuate some dutch garrison ?
I've begin playing my first game ever on Witp...i'm trying to concentrate Dutch garrison on fiew points...as bettys are a hell threat, i evacuate most of Borneo. It sound stupid to you ?
And for Malayan garrison....[:(] so much had sink on their way for india, always because of bettys (theses buffalos are really stinking) .

I wouldn't try to evacuate complete combat units jsut take fragments and rebuild for later use in India or Australia. Due to the low replacement rates of dutch and philippine squads it doesn't make much sense to evacuate fragments for all of them as you will never be able to rebuild them. So chose wisely which units you buy out and evacuate. Base forces are a different story. They consist of troops and equipment that is commonly available like aviation or support squads. And that is what you need in the beginning, especially the aviation squads. Try to get these to safe places or on bases where you want to take on a fight and need your planes operational.

Regarding evacuation I'd go with transport and patrol aircraft wherever possible. Especially the patrol aircraft have very long legs which comes in handy. If you want to evacuate bigger chunks of troops don't go via Malacca strait (west of Malaya) it's a death trap. You need to take the longer but safer route between Java and sumatra or even south of Soerabaja. But beware at these chokepoints you'll often times find japanese subs.

[hbrsvl]

mistmatz- In addition to what you've said here, I like to get the B-17s and fighters out of the Philippines.

B-17s are no trouble range-wise, but the P-40Es are short legged compared to the Bs.

I bring them to Mindanao, then south along the New Guinea coast to Port Moresby. I take fleeing AKs and drop them off at the various N.G. ports to pick up fragments.

This way there is SOME air in the Rabaul-New Guinea area.

Good fighting. Hugh Browne

[Mistmatz]

You're correct Hugh, I totally forgot to mention air groups. In addition to the PI groups which I also buy out there are some interesting dutch air groups. Again replacements for those are low (esp pilots), so probably no need to buy them all.

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

Does it mean you don't try to evacuate some dutch garrison ?
I've begin playing my first game ever on Witp...i'm trying to concentrate Dutch garrison on fiew points...as bettys are a hell threat, i evacuate most of Borneo. It sound stupid to you ?
And for Malayan garrison....[:(] so much had sink on their way for india, always because of bettys (theses buffalos are really stinking) .
[/quote]


I wouldn't try to evacuate complete combat units jsut take fragments and rebuild for later use in India or Australia. Due to the low replacement rates of dutch and philippine squads it doesn't make much sense to evacuate fragments for all of them as you will never be able to rebuild them. So chose wisely which units you buy out and evacuate. Base forces are a different story. They consist of troops and equipment that is commonly available like aviation or support squads. And that is what you need in the beginning, especially the aviation squads. Try to get these to safe places or on bases where you want to take on a fight and need your planes operational.

Regarding evacuation I'd go with transport and patrol aircraft wherever possible. Especially the patrol aircraft have very long legs which comes in handy. If you want to evacuate bigger chunks of troops don't go via Malacca strait (west of Malaya) it's a death trap. You need to take the longer but safer route between Java and sumatra or even south of Soerabaja. But beware at these chokepoints you'll often times find japanese subs.


[/quote]
Thanks for advice ! Long training skills are in action in both of you.
But does that mean you don't try to "organize" defense of DEI ? Do you leave the troops where they are?
So, its nearly end of dec 41, i'm playing "historical" level, and i've managed to evacuate 5 dutch garrisons to Java, where i pretend to buy time to the japs. I think it might be more useful than one dutch batt on each base...
I've learn from history, and now from game, that Malaka Strait is a death trap.
And for Philippines airforce, there is so much damaged P-40 that i can withdraw nearly nothing. By the way, i intend to fight a little bit more with those P-40 still in Bataan and Manilla (Clark Field already taken by japs....). And B-17 had been destroyed on ground on Davaos the same turn i transfered them, by the japs taking the base....

It's hard to learn, it cost a lot....[:(]
But if feel i'm gettin "in love" with this game anyway[:)]
(my wife is on the other hand beginning to complain about it....[8|];

[Oldguard1970]

The Dutch air force has some recon squadrons equipped with short-legged planes.  Check their upgrade.  You will see that they upgrade to P-38 based recon planes with long legs.  You do not have to save those squadrons right away, but keep them in mind and spend the PP's needed to keep them in action.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

The Dutch air force has some recon squadrons equipped with short-legged planes. Check their upgrade. You will see that they upgrade to P-38 based recon planes with long legs. You do not have to save those squadrons right away, but keep them in mind and spend the PP's needed to keep them in action.

I like saving some of the Dutch recon units. They are invaluable in China and Burma (I know very gamey [;)]). They also upgrade to F-5s later in the game.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

The first question that has to be asked is if this is Stock or a mod. Political point usage changes greatly with different OOBs.

I like saving Dutch bombers, recon units and base forces. Also, all of the PI air units.

However, I also like to save my points to convert at least one NZ or Oz Bde for use in reinforcing New Caldonia and Luganville.

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

The first question that has to be asked is if this is Stock or a mod. Political point usage changes greatly with different OOBs.

I like saving Dutch bombers, recon units and base forces. Also, all of the PI air units.

However, I also like to save my points to convert at least one NZ or Oz Bde for use in reinforcing New Caldonia and Luganville.

Lots of idea there !
I was more thinking about Port Moresby than Lunganville...

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

a) Buying anything that has aviation support.
b) Units you want to rebuild later and thus need to evacuate at least fragments.
c) Deny Mr. Churchill destroyer escorts for whatever he wants back.
d) I'd have a look on airgroup leaders for those fighter squadrons that already have good experience. In a second step I'd go for the 4e bomber groups, later the remaining stuff.

Remember you dont need to buy out troops right away. The DEI conquest takes some time and you'll get PPs daily. So I'd spent them on a daily basis depending on the current situation.

The first question that has to be asked is if this is Stock or a mod. Political point usage changes greatly with different OOBs.

I like saving Dutch bombers, recon units and base forces. Also, all of the PI air units.

However, I also like to save my points to convert at least one NZ or Oz Bde for use in reinforcing New Caldonia and Luganville.

Lots of idea there !
I was more thinking about Port Moresby than Lunganville...

That is a good idea as well, though Port Moresby becomes a much more difficult position to hold if you loose New Caledonia and the Hebrides.

[engineer]

My wish-list:

• Get B-17's out of USAFFE
• Get Transports and patrol planes out of ABDA
• Mix up the DEI:  slip a battalion or regiment into a likely target resource center just to frustrate the player or AI that is attacking and planned on a stock garrison.
• Get a brigade out of Oz to help defend either PM or Noumea.  The former is plausible if you're fighting the AI, but human opponents are likely to just chop it up so you may better deploy it in creating a "bastion" at Noumea.
• When your squadrons get whittled down in USAFFE you can evacuate the unit at a discount since the cost is only 4 PP/plane.  That will happen in December, 1941. 
• The Dutch Martins are reasonable early war bombers.  In early 1942, if they're still flying you can start pulling them out.  Once they convert to B-25C's they can contribute to the cause in Burma/India. 
• The AI can be criminally slow in taking the DEI or the Philippines.  If your subs escape getting killed in Manila, use them to start evacuating aviation units out of USAFFE and ABDA.  Your "modern" US subs have mostly dud torpedos until 1943 anyway so use them as tiny mostly invisible transports until there's no one left to save.
• During 1942, your evacuated aviation assets will rebuild and may prove critical in allowing big stacks of LBA to blunt the ravages of the Kido Butai.

I don't know that any of this is terribly original since it follows along the lines of a lot of the previous commentary.

P.S.: Freeze your US squadrons in the USA with no replacements so they don't pick up any more planes. This will save scarce replacements for line units and when you eventually want to pull them into the Pacific, you will save PP at the other end based on the 4 PP/plane rule.

[Gem35]

tipping the scales towards gameyness you can evacuate some of the LCU's belonging to SE Asia via submarine and let the cadres grow back to full strength in OZ or wherever you decide to place them.
If playing PBEM games, be sure to have house rules intact before you start.

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: Gem35

tipping the scales towards gameyness you can evacuate some of the LCU's belonging to SE Asia via submarine and let the cadres grow back to full strength in OZ or wherever you decide to place them.
If playing PBEM games, be sure to have house rules intact before you start.

Ok thanks everybody for the numerous advice.
When you're talking about the cadres, does it mean a particular part of a unit, or just any part of it, wich will regrow ?

[bradfordkay]

They mean taking a small portion which will later grow into a full unit after the parent unit has been destroyed in battle.

I do not recommend this use of PP.

I like to use PP to adjust the defenses of the DEI, getting more troops to the resource centers. Take the dutch units on the west coast of Sumatra to Palembang ASAP.

I also will evacuate whole US base force units from the Philipines (as well as Asiatic fleet HQ). Shortly after the start of the war your air forces in the PI will have been shattered and so you have far more air support in the PI than you can use. You will lose men aboard the ships when you evacuate, but you can get nearly whole units out of you are lucky.

Wait until the US air units in the PI have been shot up a bit before you spend PP to evacuate them - that will save you some PP as the cost is based upon how many aircraft are in the unit.


Gladiatt, I gather that you are French. Where do you live? I spent five weeks cycle touring in France back in '91...

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

They mean taking a small portion which will later grow into a full unit after the parent unit has been destroyed in battle.

I do not recommend this use of PP.

I like to use PP to adjust the defenses of the DEI, getting more troops to the resource centers. Take the dutch units on the west coast of Sumatra to Palembang ASAP.

I also will evacuate whole US base force units from the Philipines (as well as Asiatic fleet HQ). Shortly after the start of the war your air forces in the PI will have been shattered and so you have far more air support in the PI than you can use. You will lose men aboard the ships when you evacuate, but you can get nearly whole units out of you are lucky.

Wait until the US air units in the PI have been shot up a bit before you spend PP to evacuate them - that will save you some PP as the cost is based upon how many aircraft are in the unit.


Gladiatt, I gather that you are French. Where do you live? I spent five weeks cycle touring in France back in '91...

1) thanks for advices !
2)I'me leaving in Grenoble, in the Alps. South East of Lyon (writted Lyons on most anglo-saxon maps, but i assure there is no "s" at the end of this name [;)]

[gladiatt]

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


[

Gladiatt, I gather that you are French. Where do you live? I spent five weeks cycle touring in France back in '91...

1) thanks for advices !
2)I'me leaving in Grenoble, in the Alps. South East of Lyon (writted Lyons on most anglo-saxon maps, but i assure there is no "s" at the end of this name [;)]
[/quote]

WWWWHOOW just realizing i "won" a star and became a "Trooper" !!
[:D]
sound fun !!![;)]

[bradfordkay]

Ah, yes, a beautiful city. That was my next stop after Bourg d'Oisons. I'm sure that you can guess why I came in via that route... You're quite lucky to be living there.

Unfortunately I had someone try to steal my camera from my hotel room in Grenoble (I had it on a table by a window that he was reaching through but I woke up and scared him off). That will be forever linked in my mind with Grenoble, but I realize that could have happened anywhere that I was so stupid as to leave my handlebar bag (with camera, passport, wallet, etc) near an open window.

[Historiker]

First:
Evacuate the PI planes and the armour units. If you load the Armour units on turn two, and devide the transport TFs, most of them will make it through to Darwin.
then:
Evacuate the rest of the PI units
then:
Evacuate the DEI units - BUT don't forget that the first unit you evacuate is the Buffola unit that has "upgrade to Hurricane". If this unit gets destroyed (what happened to me in a PBEM), you won't be able to upgrade your DEI fighters unitl the Kittyhawk III appears (in CHS).
then:
transfer West Coast Units to other command structures...