Rules Clarification List

[Froonp]

And while I am posing puzzling questions, is a carrier air unit, aboard a carrier, permitted to fly escort duty for a strategic bombing mission (being flown by a land based bomber), assuming the target hex is within range? Can it fly as an interceptor? In general, can a carrier air unit, while aboard a carrier, fly all fighter missions except naval air?

Yes, CVP can do that.
It can also fly the Strategic Bombing mission, provided it has a strategic bombing factor, which very few CVP have. See 14.2.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: composer99

As far as I know, any time a plane is returning to base after a mission, it may land in any hex in which it can stack, whether it is carrying cargo or not. The weather requirement for cargo matters only for the target hex of the mission.

This is special for ATR, because they can also unload at their rebase hex, and Harry has ruled that you can't rebase at rebase hex if you are still loaded and the hex has bad weather.

Also, if I recall correctly, if an ATR is aborted during combat or picks up a unit at the target hex (rather than dropping one off), the unit gets disorganized as well when it returns to base with the ATR.

If aborted, the cargo is disrupted.
If the cargo is pocked up at the target hex, the cargo suffers nothing.

Also, an aircraft aborted in combat is never put through a second round of fighting in the same a2a combat, no matter where it lands.

Air Transport Missions have that special thing that there can be combats at the return to base hex. See 11.12, steps 9-13. They can ever suffer AA again.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

One partial solution is that for an air transport mission the ATR be forced to land in D, which has good weather and where we know it is capable of landing. This does raise the question of what ‘abort’ means for an air transport mission. For example, the ATR might have been simply trying to fly its cargo from O to D. Even though it is aborted over hex D, is it still permitted to land/deliver its cargo there? I would say yes. But I do not know whether that means it is subject to a second round of air-to-air and anti-air combat? - which would be true if its return hex R is not D.


I, and the group that I played with, have always let the ATR and cargo that was aborted over its destination hex land there but both the ATR and the Cargo would be disrupted. We have never had it suffer a second air/air combat over the same hex.

The ATR with a Para onboard could be returned to its source hex even if the weather there was bad.

In the CV air case, yes, those planes, if not disrupted, can fly fighter and support missions provided their range is sufficient to reach the desired hex observing halving of range where appropriate.

Lars

Good. That seems best to me too. I do need to write special code for these events though [not the Carrier air unit stuff though].

Maybe we can add this to the list of questions for Harry ? As a sequel to the Qustion about the ATRs that sprang up this discussion ?

Yes, please. You might include my entire post, except for the bit about the carrier air units.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Yes, please. You might include my entire post, except for the bit about the carrier air units.

Your post is too long, I've only put this :
"what happens to the ATR and its cargo that has been forced to abort, with cargo, from an air transport or paradrop mission when there is no viable return hex due to bad weather? "

As a followup to Q077 that is the question whose answer brang you that question.

We'll see what he says.

[Froonp]

To shake things a little, I've also asked the question to the list for rules clarifications (where Harry sometimes answers directly).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I am reading and commenting the Overrun code (from CWIF) and I have found a couple of things that do not look quite right. So let me see if I understand this correctly. I believe the following to be true:

Consider a stack of units (OS) capable of overrunning a weak defending infantry corps (W), and assume that all the numerous conditions for the overrun have been met. For clarity, by weak I mean that W is both disorganized and non-elite.

Case I - W is out of supply before OS moves.

OS starts in hex A, adjacent to W (in hex D) but can not overrun by moving directly from A to D because there is an intervening fort hexside. However, by moving laterally to hex B, OS can then overrun D because no fort hexside separates B and D.

I believe this move, from A to B to D is permitted because the exit from the enemy ZOC just entered (hex B) into hex D is an overrun.

Case II - W is out of supply before OS moves.

Same as case I but there is a fort hexside between B and D also.

OS wants to, but is not permitted to, move from A to B to C (circling around hex D) to perform an overrun from C to D - the hexside from C to D does not contain a fort.

I believe the move, from B to c is not permitted because the exit from the enemy ZOC just entered (hex B) into hex C is not an overrun.

Case III - W is in supply before OS moves, but only through the empty hex C.

Same as case I but there are no fort hexsides anywhere.

OS can not overrun W by moving from A to D, because D is still in supply and therefore at full strength. However, by moving to hex B, OS exerts a ZOC into hex C, thereby putting W out of supply and reducing its combat factors to 1. OS then overruns W by moving from B to D.

Case IV - W is out of supply before OS moves, but only because OS exerts a ZOC into hex E (directly opposite hex C). Hex E is controlled by W's major power.

Same as case I.

Now when OS moves to B (to get around the fort between A and D), W can trace supply through E, since OS not longer exerts a ZOC into that hex. Therefore OS can not overrun by moving A to B to D, because W is at full strength.

=====
The point of this exercise to make sure I understand perfectly when supply should be traced for deciding whether an overrun is permitted.

[Froonp]

The key reference to understand the below is :

************************************
2.4.1 When to check supply
You need to check the supply status of a unit before it moves, flies, sails or reorganises units.
You also need to check the supply status of land units immediately before you resolve an overrun (both sides), during combat declaration (attacking units) and at the moment of combat (both sides).

and

11.11.1 How to move land units
A unit must always end its move when it enters an enemy ZOC (exception: it can continue moving if it then overruns a land unit in the next hex ~ see 11.11.6). You can move a unit which starts its move in an enemy ZOC directly into another enemy ZOC (even a ZOC of the same unit).
************************************

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I am reading and commenting the Overrun code (from CWIF) and I have found a couple of things that do not look quite right. So let me see if I understand this correctly. I believe the following to be true:

Consider a stack of units (OS) capable of overrunning a weak defending infantry corps (W), and assume that all the numerous conditions for the overrun have been met. For clarity, by weak I mean that W is both disorganized and non-elite.

Case I - W is out of supply before OS moves.

OS starts in hex A, adjacent to W (in hex D) but can not overrun by moving directly from A to D because there is an intervening fort hexside. However, by moving laterally to hex B, OS can then overrun D because no fort hexside separates B and D.

I believe this move, from A to B to D is permitted because the exit from the enemy ZOC just entered (hex B) into hex D is an overrun.

If I understood correctly, B is also in W's ZoC.
I agree. OS can only move once they have entered W's ZoC, by overruning, what they do by entering D.

Case II - W is out of supply before OS moves.

Same as case I but there is a fort hexside between B and D also.

OS wants to, but is not permitted to, move from A to B to C (circling around hex D) to perform an overrun from C to D - the hexside from C to D does not contain a fort.

I believe the move, from B to c is not permitted because the exit from the enemy ZOC just entered (hex B) into hex C is not an overrun.

I agree.
After having entered B, OS can only continue moving by Overruning, which it does not by entering C.

Case III - W is in supply before OS moves, but only through the empty hex C.

Same as case I but there are no fort hexsides anywhere.

OS can not overrun W by moving from A to D, because D is still in supply and therefore at full strength. However, by moving to hex B, OS exerts a ZOC into hex C, thereby putting W out of supply and reducing its combat factors to 1. OS then overruns W by moving from B to D.

I agree. The rules say that supply is checked before each move, before each combat and before each overrun. Note that OS must still be in supply in B too to do the overrun.

Case IV - W is out of supply before OS moves, but only because OS exerts a ZOC into hex E (directly opposite hex C). Hex E is controlled by W's major power.

Same as case I.

Now when OS moves to B (to get around the fort between A and D), W can trace supply through E, since OS not longer exerts a ZOC into that hex. Therefore OS can not overrun by moving A to B to D, because W is at full strength.

Right, because the rules say that supply is checked before each move, before each combat and before each overrun. .

=====
The point of this exercise to make sure I understand perfectly when supply should be traced for deciding whether an overrun is permitted.

I think you have it.

Here is a diagram I made showing your 4 cases (I hope).

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The key reference to understand the below is :

************************************
2.4.1 When to check supply
You need to check the supply status of a unit before it moves, flies, sails or reorganises units.
You also need to check the supply status of land units immediately before you resolve an overrun (both sides), during combat declaration (attacking units) and at the moment of combat (both sides).

and

11.11.1 How to move land units
A unit must always end its move when it enters an enemy ZOC (exception: it can continue moving if it then overruns a land unit in the next hex ~ see 11.11.6). You can move a unit which starts its move in an enemy ZOC directly into another enemy ZOC (even a ZOC of the same unit).
************************************

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I am reading and commenting the Overrun code (from CWIF) and I have found a couple of things that do not look quite right. So let me see if I understand this correctly. I believe the following to be true:

Consider a stack of units (OS) capable of overrunning a weak defending infantry corps (W), and assume that all the numerous conditions for the overrun have been met. For clarity, by weak I mean that W is both disorganized and non-elite.

Case I - W is out of supply before OS moves.

OS starts in hex A, adjacent to W (in hex D) but can not overrun by moving directly from A to D because there is an intervening fort hexside. However, by moving laterally to hex B, OS can then overrun D because no fort hexside separates B and D.

I believe this move, from A to B to D is permitted because the exit from the enemy ZOC just entered (hex B) into hex D is an overrun.

If I understood correctly, B is also in W's ZoC.
I agree. OS can only move once they have entered W's ZoC, by overruning, what they do by entering D.

Case II - W is out of supply before OS moves.

Same as case I but there is a fort hexside between B and D also.

OS wants to, but is not permitted to, move from A to B to C (circling around hex D) to perform an overrun from C to D - the hexside from C to D does not contain a fort.

I believe the move, from B to c is not permitted because the exit from the enemy ZOC just entered (hex B) into hex C is not an overrun.

I agree.
After having entered B, OS can only continue moving by Overruning, which it does not by entering C.

Case III - W is in supply before OS moves, but only through the empty hex C.

Same as case I but there are no fort hexsides anywhere.

OS can not overrun W by moving from A to D, because D is still in supply and therefore at full strength. However, by moving to hex B, OS exerts a ZOC into hex C, thereby putting W out of supply and reducing its combat factors to 1. OS then overruns W by moving from B to D.

I agree. The rules say that supply is checked before each move, before each combat and before each overrun. Note that OS must still be in supply in B too to do the overrun.

Case IV - W is out of supply before OS moves, but only because OS exerts a ZOC into hex E (directly opposite hex C). Hex E is controlled by W's major power.

Same as case I.

Now when OS moves to B (to get around the fort between A and D), W can trace supply through E, since OS not longer exerts a ZOC into that hex. Therefore OS can not overrun by moving A to B to D, because W is at full strength.

Right, because the rules say that supply is checked before each move, before each combat and before each overrun. .

=====
The point of this exercise to make sure I understand perfectly when supply should be traced for deciding whether an overrun is permitted.

I think you have it.

Here is a diagram I made showing your 4 cases (I hope).

Yes. Thanks for the pictures. I really didn't have the time to create them.
========
I have one more detail that I want to confirm. When moving a stack of units for overrun, the cost for the stack to enter each hex is whatever the cost is for the unit that uses the most movement points. So, for simplicity's sake, if the stack does not start in an enemy ZOC can charges forward, seeking to overrun a unit, each hex it enters costs the number of movement points required to move the 'slowest' unit into the hex.

My concern is an armor unit, stacked with a leg infantry trying to move into a forest and then, later in the movement, overrun an enemy unit in a clear hex.

The leg infantry might have 4 movement points which is sufficient for it to move/overrun the enemy unit, since the forest hex only costs leg infantry 1 MP. The armor unit has 6 movement points, and though the move through the forest costs it 2 MP, it still can reach the enemy hex for the overrun.

However, since the two units must move as a stack in order to conduct the overrun, then entering the forest hex costs the leg infantry 2 MPs of its available 4 MPs, so it can not reach the enemy unit for the overrun. The same thing comes up when moving through mountains.
=========
I've another bone to pick about overruns.

The rules make a clear distinction between overrunning air & naval units, alone in a hex, versus when enemy land units are present. Now I have no problem with that, it is very clear cut.

But, supply units make me pause and wonder.

1 - Can a supply unit participate as an attacking unit in an overrun? It might be the only way it could get to the overrun hex (otherwise it would be violating the rules concerning entering and exiting enemy ZOCs. I am assuming yes.

2 - Does the presence of an enemy supply unit count as a land unit for the purposes of overrun? For instance, this might prevent an out of supply unit from overrunning a hex (because an enemy land unit - the supply unit- is present). The MWIF/CWIF code currently says says: yes, the presence of an enemy supply unit prevents movement into a hex (i.e., overrun) by an out-of-supply land unit, even though the odds would be X:0, or infinite.

[Norman42]

Patrice's analysis is how I interpret the rules as well.
 
Regarding the two other details:
 
-correct, the armor unit would have to conduct the over-run on its own(if it has the factors to do so), since the infantry doesn't have the movement available to continue on in the 'stack'.
 
-the supply unit is a 0 factor combat unit, so any *allowed* combat or over-run would destroy it, however OOS combat/over-run isn't allowed so the attack on the unit (even though it has 0 factors) is also not allowed.
 
It was quite common for the Italians to leave their supply unit in Addis Ababa even when they pull out the infantry back to Italy, just to force the Allies to send a supplied force to liberate it, instead of just a territorial capturing it empty on an oos dash.  Whether this has been changed in recent errata I do not know.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I have one more detail that I want to confirm. When moving a stack of units for overrun, the cost for the stack to enter each hex is whatever the cost is for the unit that uses the most movement points.

I disagree. Each unit spends movement points according to what kind of unit it is, and what type of terrain it enters. An INF and a MECH stacked together advancing to perform an overrun, and entering a forest hex on their way would only spend 1 MP from the INF and 2 MP for the MECH. See "11.11.1 How to move land units".

********************************
11.11.1 How to move land units
(...)
Each unit has its movement points printed on its counter. Each hex it enters will use up 1 or more of those points depending on:
ï which map it is on;
ï what the terrain is in the hex, and sometimes on the hexside it crossed to enter it, (see the terrain effects chart);
ï what the weather is in the hex (see 8.2.5); and
ï whether the unit is motorised or not (see 11.11.2 ~ option 34).
********************************

So, for simplicity's sake, if the stack does not start in an enemy ZOC can charges forward, seeking to overrun a unit, each hex it enters costs the number of movement points required to move the 'slowest' unit into the hex.

My concern is an armor unit, stacked with a leg infantry trying to move into a forest and then, later in the movement, overrun an enemy unit in a clear hex.

The leg infantry might have 4 movement points which is sufficient for it to move/overrun the enemy unit, since the forest hex only costs leg infantry 1 MP. The armor unit has 6 movement points, and though the move through the forest costs it 2 MP, it still can reach the enemy hex for the overrun.

However, since the two units must move as a stack in order to conduct the overrun, then entering the forest hex costs the leg infantry 2 MPs of its available 4 MPs, so it can not reach the enemy unit for the overrun. The same thing comes up when moving through mountains.
=========

I think that this whole question is based on an error, as there is no "stack movement" that requires an INF to use the MOT movement rates.

I've another bone to pick about overruns.

The rules make a clear distinction between overrunning air & naval units, alone in a hex, versus when enemy land units are present. Now I have no problem with that, it is very clear cut.

But, supply units make me pause and wonder.

1 - Can a supply unit participate as an attacking unit in an overrun? It might be the only way it could get to the overrun hex (otherwise it would be violating the rules concerning entering and exiting enemy ZOCs. I am assuming yes.

22.4.10 says about Supply Units.
********************************
22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)
(...)
They move like a motorised unit but do not change control of hexes they enter. They have no combat value and cannot attack. They are never affected by any combat result.
********************************
So they can't attack, but overrun is not a land attack (see "11.16 Land combat" that says "Overruns are not land attacks."), so I assume that a supply unit is allowed to be included in a stack of units performing an overrun.

2 - Does the presence of an enemy supply unit count as a land unit for the purposes of overrun? For instance, this might prevent an out of supply unit from overrunning a hex (because an enemy land unit - the supply unit- is present). The MWIF/CWIF code currently says says: yes, the presence of an enemy supply unit prevents movement into a hex (i.e., overrun) by an out-of-supply land unit, even though the odds would be X:0, or infinite.

Here, 22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6) says :
********************************
22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)
(...)
Your land units can enter a hex containing only an enemy supply unit without having to overrun it. You can then either destroy the supply unit or replace it with one of your own (chosen randomly).
********************************
So a supply unit don't count as a land unit for the purposes of overrun, and don't prevent an out of supply unit to overrun an hex. It is merely destroyed or captured.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Norman42

Patrice's analysis is how I interpret the rules as well.

Regarding the two other details:

-correct, the armor unit would have to conduct the over-run on its own(if it has the factors to do so), since the infantry doesn't have the movement available to continue on in the 'stack'.

-the supply unit is a 0 factor combat unit, so any *allowed* combat or over-run would destroy it, however OOS combat/over-run isn't allowed so the attack on the unit (even though it has 0 factors) is also not allowed.

It was quite common for the Italians to leave their supply unit in Addis Ababa even when they pull out the infantry back to Italy, just to force the Allies to send a supplied force to liberate it, instead of just a territorial capturing it empty on an oos dash.  Whether this has been changed in recent errata I do not know.

Ok.

I just have trouble getting my head around the supply unit being more ferocious than the naval forces aboard ships, or the air support personnel on the ground. Maybe they are all disgruntled lorry drivers armed with tire irons?[:D]

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Norman42

Patrice's analysis is how I interpret the rules as well.

Regarding the two other details:

-correct, the armor unit would have to conduct the over-run on its own(if it has the factors to do so), since the infantry doesn't have the movement available to continue on in the 'stack'.

-the supply unit is a 0 factor combat unit, so any *allowed* combat or over-run would destroy it, however OOS combat/over-run isn't allowed so the attack on the unit (even though it has 0 factors) is also not allowed.

It was quite common for the Italians to leave their supply unit in Addis Ababa even when they pull out the infantry back to Italy, just to force the Allies to send a supplied force to liberate it, instead of just a territorial capturing it empty on an oos dash.  Whether this has been changed in recent errata I do not know.

Ok.

I just have trouble getting my head around the supply unit being more ferocious than the naval forces aboard ships, or the air support personnel on the ground. Maybe they are all disgruntled lorry drivers armed with tire irons?[:D]

No no no, I think that Norman is wrong, see 22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6) that says
********************************
22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)
(...)
Your land units can enter a hex containing only an enemy supply unit without having to overrun it. You can then either destroy the supply unit or replace it with one of your own (chosen randomly).
********************************
Clearly a supply unit don't count as a land unit.

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I just have trouble getting my head around the supply unit being more ferocious than the naval forces aboard ships, or the air support personnel on the ground. Maybe they are all disgruntled lorry drivers armed with tire irons?[:D]

Teamsters

'nuff said

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I have one more detail that I want to confirm. When moving a stack of units for overrun, the cost for the stack to enter each hex is whatever the cost is for the unit that uses the most movement points.

I disagree. Each unit spends movement points according to what kind of unit it is, and what type of terrain it enters. An INF and a MECH stacked together advancing to perform an overrun, and entering a forest hex on their way would only spend 1 MP from the INF and 2 MP for the MECH. See "11.11.1 How to move land units".

********************************
11.11.1 How to move land units
(...)
Each unit has its movement points printed on its counter. Each hex it enters will use up 1 or more of those points depending on:
ï which map it is on;
ï what the terrain is in the hex, and sometimes on the hexside it crossed to enter it, (see the terrain effects chart);
ï what the weather is in the hex (see 8.2.5); and
ï whether the unit is motorised or not (see 11.11.2 ~ option 34).
********************************

So, for simplicity's sake, if the stack does not start in an enemy ZOC can charges forward, seeking to overrun a unit, each hex it enters costs the number of movement points required to move the 'slowest' unit into the hex.

My concern is an armor unit, stacked with a leg infantry trying to move into a forest and then, later in the movement, overrun an enemy unit in a clear hex.

The leg infantry might have 4 movement points which is sufficient for it to move/overrun the enemy unit, since the forest hex only costs leg infantry 1 MP. The armor unit has 6 movement points, and though the move through the forest costs it 2 MP, it still can reach the enemy hex for the overrun.

However, since the two units must move as a stack in order to conduct the overrun, then entering the forest hex costs the leg infantry 2 MPs of its available 4 MPs, so it can not reach the enemy unit for the overrun. The same thing comes up when moving through mountains.
=========

I think that this whole question is based on an error, as there is no "stack movement" that requires an INF to use the MOT movement rates.

I've another bone to pick about overruns.

The rules make a clear distinction between overrunning air & naval units, alone in a hex, versus when enemy land units are present. Now I have no problem with that, it is very clear cut.

But, supply units make me pause and wonder.

1 - Can a supply unit participate as an attacking unit in an overrun? It might be the only way it could get to the overrun hex (otherwise it would be violating the rules concerning entering and exiting enemy ZOCs. I am assuming yes.

22.4.10 says about Supply Units.
********************************
22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)
(...)
They move like a motorised unit but do not change control of hexes they enter. They have no combat value and cannot attack. They are never affected by any combat result.
********************************
So they can't attack, but overrun is not a land attack (see "11.16 Land combat" that says "Overruns are not land attacks."), so I assume that a supply unit is allowed to be included in a stack of units performing an overrun.

2 - Does the presence of an enemy supply unit count as a land unit for the purposes of overrun? For instance, this might prevent an out of supply unit from overrunning a hex (because an enemy land unit - the supply unit- is present). The MWIF/CWIF code currently says says: yes, the presence of an enemy supply unit prevents movement into a hex (i.e., overrun) by an out-of-supply land unit, even though the odds would be X:0, or infinite.

Here, 22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6) says :
********************************
22.4.10 Supply units (MiF option 6)
(...)
Your land units can enter a hex containing only an enemy supply unit without having to overrun it. You can then either destroy the supply unit or replace it with one of your own (chosen randomly).
********************************
So a supply unit don't count as a land unit for the purposes of overrun, and don't prevent an out of supply unit to overrun an hex. It is merely destroyed or captured.

Silly me. I read the rule section 22.4.10 but for some reason that sentence never penetrated my brain.[:@]

Yes, you are certainly right. I have played many war games where the movement cost for a stack of units is as I described it. But there is nothing specifically in RAW to support that (invalid) interpretation.

(Sorry Norman, but I think Patrice is right about this stuff.)

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Silly me. I read the rule section 22.4.10 but for some reason that sentence never penetrated my brain.[:@]

No problem, we people here are here to help you remind what does not penetrate your brain. [:D]

[Norman42]

Patrice is right. I re-read the supply unit rules once home from work and realized my understanding was wrong. Guess my group has been playing it incorrectly for a while and it just stuck that way.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Norman42

In general, can a carrier air unit, while aboard a carrier, fly all fighter missions except naval air?

Yes, if:

- the weather in both the seazone, and the target hex allows such a mission,
- air mission limits allow,
- the cvp has the range to reach the target hex in question,
- and has not been previously used/aborted

I'm late getting up to date on the posts in this thread, but I see no one else took exception to the bolded word "both" in the above reply. I believe this to be quite wrong. There is no stipulation in RAW that I know of for weather affecting air missions except in the target hex. So the CVs could be in a sea zone experiencing storm or blizzard and the CVPs (or air component if playing without CVPs) could fly all valid air missions into land hexes that are not experiencing that weather.

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Norman42

In general, can a carrier air unit, while aboard a carrier, fly all fighter missions except naval air?

Yes, if:

- the weather in both the seazone, and the target hex allows such a mission,
- air mission limits allow,
- the cvp has the range to reach the target hex in question,
- and has not been previously used/aborted

I'm late getting up to date on the posts in this thread, but I see no one else took exception to the bolded word "both" in the above reply. I believe this to be quite wrong. There is no stipulation in RAW that I know of for weather affecting air missions except in the target hex. So the CVs could be in a sea zone experiencing storm or blizzard and the CVPs (or air component if playing without CVPs) could fly all valid air missions into land hexes that are not experiencing that weather.

Paul is right. The weather in the sea zone is irrelevant for a CVP flying an air mission to a land hex.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Norman42

Yes, if:

- the weather in both the seazone, and the target hex allows such a mission,
- air mission limits allow,
- the cvp has the range to reach the target hex in question,
- and has not been previously used/aborted

I'm late getting up to date on the posts in this thread, but I see no one else took exception to the bolded word "both" in the above reply. I believe this to be quite wrong. There is no stipulation in RAW that I know of for weather affecting air missions except in the target hex. So the CVs could be in a sea zone experiencing storm or blizzard and the CVPs (or air component if playing without CVPs) could fly all valid air missions into land hexes that are not experiencing that weather.

Paul is right. The weather in the sea zone is irrelevant for a CVP flying an air mission to a land hex.

Ok.

[Orm]

Overseas supply and multiple states of war.

A friend asked me about it and I am not sure I got it right.

Example:

Playing with - SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply
path overseas if each sea area you trace it through contains a friendly
convoy, TRS or AMPH.

USSR is at war with Finland (controlled by Germany) and at peace with Germany.

There is an German CP in the Baltic sea.
USSR has an SCS in the Baltic sea.
Finland has an infantry corps on a costal hex without an overland supply path.

It is now my understanding that the USSR SCS is blocking overseas supply since the German CP is not at war with USSR.

If Germany lands an HQ on the hex with the Finnish corps the HQ would be in supply since the USSR SCS is not an enemy to the German HQ.

The question is now wether the Finnish corps would be in supply tracing by the German HQ or not,

My understanding of this is that it is the unit tracing the supply (finnish corp) that determines the overseas supply and not the secondary supply sourse.

So the Finnish unit would be out of supply regardless that the German HQ is in supply.


Cut from raw:
You cannot trace a supply path into a sea area that contains:
• an enemy CV, SCS or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor;
• unless it also contains a surface naval unit, or aircraft unit with an
air-to-sea factor, (SiF option 11: convoy, TRS, or AMPH only)
controlled by any major power or minor country at war with that
enemy unit.